Ryan Tannehill

That may be true. But that's a completely different point.

"resnor wrote:

That may be true. But that's a completely different point.

Erm... I don't think it is. I didn't read it that way.

The Guy's point has been, simply, that Tannehill has had to compete at the Titans in a way he didn't have to in Miami. Miami had no solid competition in Miami like there is in Mariota.

I didn't see The Guy say that Tannehill won the starting position through competition but that he has had to compete the whole time (even though he lost that competition). It's perfectly plausible that Tannehill, not being the guaranteed starter and seeing that he has to step up to take the job from Mariota, upped his game, and that's what we're seeing now.

"Galant wrote:

Erm... I don't think it is. I didn't read it that way.

The Guy's point has been, simply, that Tannehill has had to compete at the Titans in a way he didn't have to in Miami. Miami had no solid competition in Miami like there is in Mariota.

I didn't see The Guy say that Tannehill won the starting position through competition but that he has had to compete the whole time (even though he lost that competition). It's perfectly plausible that Tannehill, not being the guaranteed starter and seeing that he has to step up to take the job from Mariota, upped his game, and that's what we're seeing now.

But he didn't take anything from Mariota is my point. If Mariota hadn't been injured, Tannehill wouldn't be starting.

"resnor wrote:

But he didn't take anything from Mariota is my point. If Mariota hadn't been injured, Tannehill wouldn't be starting.

Sure, but where did The Guy say he took the job from Mariota? I don't think that was his point at all.

And to reply from my own perspective, I suppose that what Ryan is having to do right now is where he's taking away from Mariota.

"Galant wrote:

Sure, but where did The Guy say he took the job from Mariota? I don't think that was his point at all.

And to reply from my own perspective, I suppose that what Ryan is having to do right now is where he's taking away from Mariota.

Well I guess first things first, this is a theory of his. When I read his initial post that I responded to, it seemed to me that he was saying that Tannehill is successful in Tennessee because of competition. I don't see it that way. I was only pointing out that he didn't go to Tennessee and beat out Mariota to win the job.

"resnor wrote:

Well I guess first things first, this is a theory of his. When I read his initial post that I responded to, it seemed to me that he was saying that Tannehill is successful in Tennessee because of competition. I don't see it that way. I was only pointing out that he didn't go to Tennessee and beat out Mariota to win the job.

Fair enough. But that wasn't his point.

"resnor wrote:

But he didn't take anything from Mariota is my point. If Mariota hadn't been injured, Tannehill wouldn't be starting.

Where are you guys getting this stuff about Tannehill only starting because Mariota got injured narrative from? That didn't happen.

Mariota was benched due to a string of poor performances in consecutive games.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/titans-bench-marcus-mariota-for-ryan-tannehill-as-offense-can-do-nothing-vs-broncos/

"Mariota completed just 1 of 7 pass attempts and threw two interceptions on throws that traveled more than 10 yards downfield, according to ESPN Stats & Information data. He entered Sunday completing 62.8 percent of those throws with three touchdowns and no interceptions.

Tannehill, a 2012 first-round pick who was the Miami Dolphins' starter for seven seasons before being released this offseason, completed a quick pass to Corey Davis on an out-breaking route for his first completion as a Titan. He hit A.J. Brown on a quick slant for a 42-yard gain, but it was called back because of offensive pass interference on Brown. Tannehill finished the day 13 of 16 for 144 yards but also threw an interception."

As for the stuff about Tannehill "losing" to Mariota in camp, there was much clamor during the pre-season that Tannehill was the better QB then as well. Vrable stuck with Mariota throughout the first quarter of the season as he was the incumbent and the starting job was his to lose in the regular season, which he did in the Broncos' game.

"cuchulainn wrote:

Where are you guys getting this stuff about Tannehill only starting because Mariota got injured narrative from? That didn't happen.

Mariota was benched due to a string of poor performances in consecutive games.

Oh man! You're right. I'm mixing up his prior injury with him being benched this year. Thanks for the correction!

I thought he injured his knee again. If that wasn't the case, then I take back everything I was saying.

"djphinfan wrote:

no sir, Tannehill has to prove himself, I think most rational folks would agree, he has to prove he can get it done.. protection on the way to a Super Bowl is going to inevitably break down, once he proves he can make those individual plays then I will think differently about him..

I'm not saying you need to think he is elite. He does have a lot to prove. My point is that having a bad game in the playoffs or otherwise is a narrow minded thing to base an evaluation on.

Peyton Manning couldnt even win "big games" until he did. I dont think many people truly doubted him though.

Not comparing Tannehill to Manning btw as a player.

"resnor wrote:

Your point was that Tannehill showed improvement due to having competition. I don't think that had anything to do with. Hence I was pointing out that he didn't win the starting job, he again got it by default.

I've browsed a few Titans boards and there is evidence the HC and others wanted Tannehill to start game 1, but the GM forced their hand on Mariota...insider reports, etc, like we get in the club here.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

I've browsed a few Titans boards and there is evidence the HC and others wanted Tannehill to start game 1, but the GM forced their hand on Mariota...insider reports, etc, like we get in the club here.

Almost like Tannehill didn't need to win anything...lol. I really felt like Tannehill was the better QB the moment he got there, but Mariota is the big name.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

I've browsed a few Titans boards and there is evidence the HC and others wanted Tannehill to start game 1, but the GM forced their hand on Mariota...insider reports, etc, like we get in the club here.

If that’s the case, then I would expect there to be a significant decrease in Tannehill’s performance during some portion of the rest of the season, as both he and the team experience the natural diminishing of elevated performance associated with the energy and excitement of having their preferred quarterback finally be selected to lead the team.

Of course Tannehill is very likely to regress to the mean either way, so it won’t be fully possible to attribute that pattern of performance to that particular dynamic with certainty.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I'm not saying you need to think he is elite. He does have a lot to prove. My point is that having a bad game in the playoffs or otherwise is a narrow minded thing to base an evaluation on.

Peyton Manning couldnt even win "big games" until he did. I dont think many people truly doubted him though.

Not comparing Tannehill to Manning btw as a player.

Good point.

To be called elite, he needs better pressure management/pocket maneuvering/escapability...no doubt. Unfortunately, he'll probably never fix it. That's the ONLY thing separating him from elite QBs right now IMO. Other areas of his game are certainly elite. He's not perfect, nobody ever claimed he was, but he is a DAMN good NFL QB...certainly franchise.

"The Guy wrote:

If that’s the case, then I would expect there to be a significant decrease in Tannehill’s performance during some portion of the rest of the season, as both he and the team experience the natural diminishing of elevated performance associated with the energy and excitement of having their preferred quarterback finally be selected to lead the team.

Of course Tannehill is very likely to regress to the mean either way, so it won’t be fully possible to attribute that pattern of performance to that particular dynamic with certainty.

Very possible.

"djphinfan wrote:

no sir, Tannehill has to prove himself, I think most rational folks would agree, he has to prove he can get it done.. protection on the way to a Super Bowl is going to inevitably break down, once he proves he can make those individual plays then I will think differently about him..

At that point their opinions no longer carry any weight!

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I'm not saying you need to think he is elite. He does have a lot to prove. My point is that having a bad game in the playoffs or otherwise is a narrow minded thing to base an evaluation on.

Peyton Manning couldnt even win "big games" until he did. I dont think many people truly doubted him though.

Not comparing Tannehill to Manning btw as a player.

I understand what your saying and I would agree in most cases, but I don’t think it applies with Tannehill, his weakness is very clear at this point and u til he proves that he can overcome it I can’t believe in the guy, that’s just me, and why I personally feel like that is because early on in his career the weakness was clear to me and what was happening over and over was very predictable over the 6 year stint..

Imo to be a championship Qb, you don’t have to be an elite thrower of the football but you do have to make a few individual plays within the pocket to escape pressure, feel the pressure peripherally and reset, multitask within the chaos, in a clutch type situation on the road..

I have no doubt Ryan can make beautiful throws if he has time, but ultimately that’s not gonna always be there as the intensity increases, A Qb’s ability to navigate the pocket under pressure is going to determine his and his teams fate..

So if we get to that game, and we see those type of plays, and he converts, then he will have proven that he has all the goods to be that guy you should trust.

"The Guy wrote:

If that’s the case, then I would expect there to be a significant decrease in Tannehill’s performance during some portion of the rest of the season, as both he and the team experience the natural diminishing of elevated performance associated with the energy and excitement of having their preferred quarterback finally be selected to lead the team.

Of course Tannehill is very likely to regress to the mean either way, so it won’t be fully possible to attribute that pattern of performance to that particular dynamic with certainty.

Ya anything's possible...but the one thing that keeps me from expecting it to decline is the quality of pass defenses he has faced and will face through the end of the season...he's already gone through 4 top 10 pass defenses and done great against them.

He came into that Denver game just before the end of the 1st half down 13 points, and was lighting the yardage up against the #5 passing defense, 13/16 for 144 yards, but an interception. The run game with Henry was completely shut down, and they lost the game. Of course, he wasn't the starter, didn't have 1st team reps, etc, which may or may not have helped, but a loss is a loss.

Throughout the next 5 games as a starter, he had the one below average game against the Panthers, but on the way to 4-1 in that stretch, he had 3 4th quarter game-winning drives (something his detractors here have said for YEARS he couldn't do), one against the #4 pass defense (LAC), and another against the #9 pass defense (Jax).

Then, at Indianapolis (#10 pass defense), had a game-sealing, nail-in-the-coffin drive/TD pass to close out the game (another facet he "could never do" according to many).

Looking ahead, they have the Raiders (24th pass defense), Houston (28th pass defense), Saints (16th pass defense) and Houston again to close out the season.

I don't expect his play to decline. I believe he's helped partially by only having to have played 7.5 games compared to a full season...less wear and tear, etc. He and the Titans are currently #1 in passer rating, #1 in redzone TD percentage, #1 in YPA, #2 in completion percentage (behind only Drew Brees)...mostly against top 10 pass defenses.

Those are some great numbers for "just a guy."

Oh, and lest I forget another facet that he was incapable of sustaining (long plays), the Titans are #1 in the NFL in both passing and rushing explosive plays (20+ yards) since he has been the starter.

The kid is doing so many things well, that he would never be able to do, according to many. Now if he could ever improve his pocket/pressure awareness and adjustments...he'd be insane. It just feels like he'll never get that part down...sadly.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Ya anything's possible...but the one thing that keeps me from expecting it to decline is the quality of pass defenses he has faced and will face through the end of the season...he's already gone through 4 top 10 pass defenses and done great against them.

He came into that Denver game just before the end of the 1st half down 13 points, and was lighting the yardage up against the #5 passing defense, 13/16 for 144 yards, but an interception. The run game with Henry was completely shut down, and they lost the game. Of course, he wasn't the starter, didn't have 1st team reps, etc, which may or may not have helped, but a loss is a loss.

Throughout the next 5 games as a starter, he had the one below average game against the Panthers, but on the way to 4-1 in that stretch, he had 3 4th quarter game-winning drives (something his detractors here have said for YEARS he couldn't do), one against the #4 pass defense (LAC), and another against the #9 pass defense (Jax).

Then, at Indianapolis (#10 pass defense), had a game-sealing, nail-in-the-coffin drive/TD pass to close out the game (another facet he "could never do" according to many).

Looking ahead, they have the Raiders (24th pass defense), Houston (28th pass defense), Saints (16th pass defense) and Houston again to close out the season.

I don't expect his play to decline. I believe he's helped partially by only having to have played 7.5 games compared to a full season...less wear and tear, etc. He and the Titans are currently #1 in passer rating, #1 in redzone TD percentage, #1 in YPA, #2 in completion percentage (behind only Drew Brees)...mostly against top 10 pass defenses.

Those are some great numbers for "just a guy."

In the Panthers game, Henry was only given three carries in the first half and Dion Lewis had more touches. Fans were outraged at the OC over that. Tannehill had 2 INTs and 4 sacks on almost 40 pass attempts. Looks like a lesson learned for the OC, who has keep his pass attempts to roughly half that since.

"cuchulainn wrote:

In the Panthers game, Henry was only given three carries in the first half and Dion Lewis had more touches. Fans were outraged at the OC over that. Tannehill had 2 INTs and 4 sacks on almost 40 pass attempts. Looks like a lesson learned for the OC, who has keep his pass attempts to roughly half that since.

Yes and since then, even when down 2 scores, they don't abandon the run, even later into the 2nd half...and it's paying dividends. The OC is calling very good games and making ample adjustments for RT / Henry.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Yes and since then, even when down 2 scores, they don't abandon the run, even later into the 2nd half...and it's paying dividends. The OC is calling very good games and making ample adjustments for RT / Henry.

Amusing that Tannehill has one less sack (24) than Mariota (25) after both started six games.

With almost 50 sacks, Titans fans are far more critical of their OLmen than many Dolphins's fans. As a team, they're on pace to have ~65 sacks on the season.

Lewan in particular draws a ton of criticism and ridicule. Many want Conklin gone/replaced. The Titans are actually at the bottom of the league with the Dolphins in pass protection rating.

"cuchulainn wrote:

Amusing that Tannehill has one less sack (24) than Mariota (25) after both started six games.

With almost 50 sacks, Titans fans are far more critical of their OLmen than many Dolphins's fans. As a team, they're on pace to have ~65 sacks on the season.

Lewan in particular draws a ton of criticism and ridicule. Many want Conklin gone/replaced. The Titans are actually at the bottom of the league with the Dolphins in pass protection rating.

Seen Conklin's name on several Miami FA "shopping lists" ... no thanks.

"cuchulainn wrote:

Amusing that Tannehill has one less sack (24) than Mariota (25) after both started six games.

With almost 50 sacks, Titans fans are far more critical of their OLmen than many Dolphins's fans. As a team, they're on pace to have ~65 sacks on the season.

Lewan in particular draws a ton of criticism and ridicule. Many want Conklin gone/replaced. The Titans are actually at the bottom of the league with the Dolphins in pass protection rating.

Oh no doubt...their OL sucks too. We can see how Tannehill can do with a great run game...but we're still left wondering how he'd do with a average+ OL. I wonder what teams will make a play for him this offseason, if he keeps this play up and the Titans don't tag him.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Oh no doubt...their OL sucks too. We can see how Tannehill can do with a great run game...but we're still left wondering how he'd do with a average+ OL. I wonder what teams will make a play for him this offseason, if he keeps this play up and the Titans don't tag him.

Patriots...