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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.
Doing good to step in on a poor team and squeeze out a couple wins. Go Tannehill!
I don't know what's worse, the Titans OL, or the fact we have a 9 page thread on Tannehill when he's long gone.
That being said, he still looks like the same QB. The Titan's OL isn't good, he's under alot of pressure and he still doesn't see it and takes sacks. He's been pretty good with the ball though, and you know what, he's gott hem what, 2 wins now? Can't complain about that if you're them.
Not to offend the Tannehill conversaters...
But that drive by Matt Moore was pretty awesome.
Hmm, we have 2 former Dolphins QBs performing.adequately in the NFL.
The last 4 OCs who coached them are
- Last seen coaching high school (Mike Sherman)
- Fired by the Bengals and out of football (Bill Lazor)
- Making the 0-8 Bengals offense even worse, and trying to ruin our tank job (Zac Taylor, interim OC after Lazor was fired)
- Proving to the 1-6 Jets that his performance as a Dolphins HC who called his own plays was no fluke (Adam Gase)
Tannehill always did perform adequately, for a team that had one of the best pass defenses in the league. For a team without one of those, he was inadequate.
The problem is that once you start paying a quarterback of that ilk the going rate in the league, you stand very little chance of compiling that kind of pass defense, and so the Ryan Tannehills of the world are almost always inadequate.
Tannehill will only lead a team to the Superbowl if you can build a team like the 1991 Redskins or the 2000 Ravens. If you give him the keys to a Ferrari he will keep it out of the ditches, but ask him to street race a Daewoo he’ll keep it together for a while, then flip and burn on the smallest oil slick on the road. Moving on from him was the right thing to do.
The point I was making was simply that irrespective of who we had at QB we were shooting ourselves in the foot with our choices of Offensive Co-ordinators.
It’s tough to make sense of all that, though, when Tannahill had one of his best, fairly long stretches of play under Lazor.
Well see that's the thing, 8 of those pages turned into a Tom Brady discussion!
If you can keep the pressure off him you can win some games with him. He just has the worst pocket presence of any QB I've ever seen. Beyond that he has plenty of arm strength and is not careless with his throws. He's not afraid to throw into tight windows. His ball placement isn't always the best, being slightly in front of or behind receivers.
So he’s basically like Tom Brady, but without the ingredients that make Tom Brady so great.
You're talking about a top 5 defense, the same coaches and offensive system for most of his career, and the extra curricular cheating activities? Lol
I'm surprised to an extent that it never improved. There were a couple plays yesterday where I was like Oh, good for him! He saw that one breaking down and slipped away and got rid of the ball. But there's still far too many plays where you're watching him, knowing he's about to get smoked, waiting for him to anything other than just stand there, but he does just that and gets smoked.
I admire his toughness and willingness to stand in there and give a play time to develop to hopefully make a throw, but come on... you can't consistently do it to the point where you're turning it over and taking costly sacks.
Curious to see how this continues to play out for Tannehill & the Titans though. Maybe as he gets more games in he'll start improving under different coaches. The ship has sailed on him though, but they might get more out of him than we did just based on having decent coaching around him. That OL isn't great though, and as you said, that's going to be the key for their success with RT at the helm.
As his coach, I'd want to put a shock collar around his neck. Everytime he's ignoring the collapsing pocket just press that button and give him a zap to get him moving. I wonder if we tried that when he was here...
Think about how Darius Heyward-Bey for example, a former top-10 overall pick, has tremendous speed but has never improved the rest of his game at the wide receiver position enough to become anything special. Likewise, Tannehill has very good arm talent and hasn’t improved the rest of his game enough to become anything special.
Yeah, that's the strange thing. He either doesn't have the necessary awareness or he was just so poorly coached that you're unlikely to break those habits now. Either way, it's a bit of a bummer. He had alot of the necessary tools to be "the guy" but it just never came together. Brings up an interesting debate whether it's on the player, or coaching. I'm inclined to believe it's a bit of both. For RT's pocket presence though, to me it feels it's a bit of both. He seems oblivious at times even when there's a clear indication of a blitz coming pre-snap. He always seemed content to just carry on business as usual rather than using all of his devices to make something happen when things around him were falling apart.
The one thing though that always amazed me with Tannehill was he never went full David Carr on us. The amount of abuse he took taking shots because of our incompetent OL, or his own incompetence in the pocket I'm just amazed he was still able to consistent drop back and keep his eyes downfield and not panic every snap. I just don't understand why a guy who was a former WR, and has decent ability to move and actually had success taking off and running, and is pretty good at throwing on the run never had the self awareness to escape the pocket quicker than he did. Surely you'd think he should know he's been there too long and needs to move. Feels like I've seen him move off his spot a bit more with the Titans, so I wonder if he's being told differently. Who knows really. Whatever the reason for his lack of pocket awareness it is what it is now. It's too late to salvage for us and likely too late for any other team at this point to consider him as a long term answer.
I think in his best stretch he was learning to do what you say, use his legs and extend plays. There was a window of time Tannehill looked like he turned the corner so to speak.
After his knee injury though I never really saw the same QB.
I'm so mad that I forgot Moore was playing for the Chiefs....after I made a big freaking deal about it here last week! I'm going to watch that game later today I think just to see my boy put in some work! =)
Yup, no lip reader in the press box, no Belichek to walk him thru each snap, no disciplined teammates that would run thru walls for the "Patriot Way"....that pretty much sums it up on their differences.
He has a fundamental weakness in his ability to be simultaneously aware of 1) what's happening downfield, and 2) what's happening around the pocket. He can be aware of only one of those at a time.
This is why he has such an extreme need for exemplary pass blocking. It keeps him from having to be aware of what's happening around the pocket.
But that's a part of the quarterback position that the great QBs have mastered to the degree that they don't need exemplary offensive lines.
Marino had an uncanny ability to feel the pressure and slide away from it. As good as he was at that Tannehill was on the opposite end of the spectrum. Awful.
No 2nd speaker in the helmet for 100% comms, even through plays...etc.
When he went to the Titans I was actually hoping he would sit for at least 5 or 6 games, he needed to get out of his own head. I think he is playing a little more relaxed and now we might see him progress in some of these things. Here he had horrible coaches a terrible line, bad play calling and was constantly asked to go out and bail a bad team out. I still believe if the Titans ask him to just do his part and not win the game for them they will find some success with him.
I don't believe he is a bad QB that just can't get better. He is a good QB that has found a situation that is light years better then what he had here... and whats funny about that is that I don't even think the situation at the Titans is great, its just better than here.
As for those wanting to wait and see what he does against better competition... this was a 2 and 4 Titans team. Essentially they were a bad team. When you are on a bad team EVERY WIN is meaningful. If he was playing for the offensive juggernaut Chiefs, and managed to beat bad competition I would be okay with saying lets wait and see. He is winning games that the Titans would have most likely lost without competent QB play.
It wouldn’t be difficult for you to find two-game stretches in which he played no differently for the Dolphins, especially against poorer pass defenses like the ones he just played against.
Right, but at this point he has played as well as can be expected in the games that he has been in. So by your metrics there was nothing he could have done these 2 games to have earned any praise. He was playing relaxed and throwing into incredibly tight windows in the Chargers game. He hasn't looked that comfortable in a few years here. I honestly don't know if his head was in the right place that last year he was here. He just didn't play like he had before the injury. I think that he is back to playing a little more natural and its working for him.
You might be right, that he will fold and be the QB he has always been. But what he has done so far is exactly what he needs to do to prove he isn't what many thought he was here. Its not his fault that who he has played doesn't reach the level you want to see him against.
It’s not that nothing positive can be said about his performances; it’s that nothing can be reliably attributed to his surroundings as a cause of them.
You're absolutely right. Still you cant have a great stretch without starting somewhere.
Odds are he will come down to Earth (not that hes been amazing) and be the Tannehill we all know but it's still interesting to see. Especially when we arent doing much this year.
It’ll take a while to determine the effect of his new surroundings on his performance, if any. He had two, 13-game stretches of play with the Dolphins that weren’t significantly different from what he’s doing currently.
As expected Ryan Tannehill comes back down to earth (actually a little below it) when he faces a team with a good pass defense.
This was always a significant problem with him, and something that didn't augur well for his performance in the playoffs, if he'd ever made them.
He is the ultimate tease... total albatross.
this is such a unessasary thread when it comes to him
He is what he is, which is what he always was, which is what he will always be..
He’s flawed, it’s plain as day to see..can’t fix it.. you can mask it here and there but it will always rear its ugly head..
Actually he wasn't bad in the game at all. 1 interception was just bad luck hitting his WR in stride in both hands and it pops up to the defense. He moved the ball well, but penalties kept bringing back 3rd down conversions. They also had 3 missed FGs that made a huge difference on the game strategy. In the end of the game he did everything a QB can do to bring your team back. Drove for a score then drove in field goal range (coach decided to kick field goal instead of going for TD) for them to try to bring the game back to a single score game, but they missed the field goal and the game ended without a chance for any more last second heroics.
He still has some issues with holding the ball too long, and pocket awareness is better, but still a weakness. But he didn't show any quit and he sure didn't disappear at the end of the game.
That was a tough pass defense and he looked sharp most of the day. He also had a phenomenal side arm around a rushing end that was mere feet away from him. It was only a 10 yd pass play but there are A LOT of QBs that would have shrunk in that moment to protect themselves.
Wait, you mean stats telling the story of Tannehill "coming back to Earth" didn't match the reality of what occurred in the game?
Stats for a sample size of 1 game with only 39 passing attempts are obviously not reliable. Let's see if there's any statistically significant difference in Tannehill's stats when this season is over compared to past seasons. And the absolute minimum sample size for even discussion purposes should be 150+ passing attempts, and Tannehill's at 117 right now.
In any case, it's extremely unlikely for anyone with slightly below average stats after 3000+ passing attempts to perform much better in a new surrounding over an extended period of time. It has happened before on rare occasion (e.g., Rich Gannon) but the odds are vastly against Tannehill being an exception. We'll see of course.. but stats with that large sample size tend to be reliable.
Was referring to people looking at a stat line from a game and drawing a conclusion. Not towards a bigger argument in regards to statistics.
Looks more natural. Off script 25 yard run last game. Another off script run for a td.
just more natural. And he’s getting more consistent o line play.
no knee brace either.
And when we look at what he’s done when the season ends, the game this past week won’t have helped him any.
I can't believe Richie Incognito is back...again. (Seemed like the right thread to mention that.)
Can you guys tell me again why Ryan Tannehill sucked? Watching this game against the Chiefs I sure can't remember.
I still like Tannehill he played tuff as hell and threw some sweet passes. Good job Ryan!