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To give you an idea of what we have to deal with...

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Pagan, Mar 26, 2009.

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  1. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    This is by no means meant to be anti-Christian. I know many Christians, and most of them are wonderful people.

    However, for some reason there are those of the Christian faith who feel the need to do things like this, and have similar beliefs. To someone like me, it's frightening.

    According to the Bible, there is no such thing as a good witch.

    I thought part of Christian beliefs is not to lie or bare false witness? Live and let live people....live and let live.

    I'm glad that here at ThePhins we have those of you who aren't so radical.
     
  2. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    What I find most annoying is most of spiritual hatred is due to ignorance or a lack of respect for anything other than ones own religion.

    I have known many different people of many different religious backgrounds and it is not (as pagan says) "christian" specific. It's person specific.

    People need to open their eyes and realize that there is more than one way to the top of the mountain and 'my' road is not the 'only' road. Myself included.
     
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  3. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Amen.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Believe it or not, being an Atheist brings a similar treatment. I've been called evil, stupid, a heathen, ridiculous, a travesty, etc. for telling people I'm an Atheist. Anyway, I feel your pain.
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    And with being a New Age hippie, I just love them anyways. They are so cute with their hatred.
     
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  6. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    While the internet age has allowed communities such as this one to exist, it has also given everyone with a computer and an ax to grind an oppurunity to be a jerk with a bigger stage. The website mentioned above is exhibit A to my argument.

    I don't know whether or not Wicca has a real claim on being as ancient as its adherants say it is. I don't know whether the Masons can do it either. Neither really affects me, my faith, my witness, or the world at large.

    I will live my faith as will you, Pagan, and let people judge its "worth" by our lives, right?
     
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  7. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    For the record bro, no one ever said that Wicca was ancient. Paganism is. Wicca is an offshoot of Paganism. It's fairly new. We claim to follow the "Old Ways" because we do, in our own way.

    One of the reasons I respect you, Ohio. :knucks:
     
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  8. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    You know what pagan? I have gained respect for you and your beliefs. While I still have mine and am a Christian, I can understand your feelings and views.
    You have really been kind in helping us to understand.
    You have never once tried to shove it down our throats and I hope I never did to you. If I have, forgive me.
    I'm glad thephins gives us the opportunity to know each other and to share our views with each other.
    Thanks. :up:
     
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  9. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    For the record as well, masonry isn't a religion and it can be traced back to the 1390's fairly easily.

    your last line sums it up for me. it's not what we preach but what we practice. no one here has preached their religion on others but i see many an example of plenty of us practising very well.
     
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  10. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    You never have Debby. Like I said before. We have a good group on here. No one is breathing fire and brimstone like at the other site.

    There were a couple over there that were definitely on the extreme side.

    Ya'll are good eggs. :D

    I wish more people would be like you all and not judge us by what you see on TV and in the movies. Nothing could be further from the truth.
     
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  11. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I've read up a bit on Wicca and Paganism (I have a friend who is a Druid) and it's all very, very interesting to me.. which is why I asked you about it in PMs.

    I've grown up with the (and use this with whatever deity you want) "God wants spiritual fruits not religious nuts".

    We should all strive to be so understanding towards others spirituality of choice
     
  12. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    That's the way,we as Christians, should be. Not judgmental about any one.
    I think I've read some of the posts you're talking about on the other place. That's what gives us a bad name and makes others not want to talk to us about our faith. But, we've got Pastor Keith, Raul and others on here that are just great people.

    You're a good egg too pagan. :up:
     
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  13. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    I wish there were more people like you in the world, if there were it would be a better place to live. :up:
     
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  14. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think there's a problem with any religion when it says that if you believe differently you're going to hell (or it's equivalent).
     
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  15. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Thank you for the kind words. I'm sure there are a lot of people who wouldn't agree with you, but your a doll to say this. :yes: You have made my day.
     
  16. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Well I am all about religious freedom and understanding others faith. So when I see someone doing just that I can't help but say they're good people. :up:
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Here's the question I have while reading some of the responses from Christians in this thread...and it's more of a question towards Christians. As a Christian, one of our main purposes here on this earth is to lead others to Christ, is it not? The Great Commission, from Matthew 28? Now, if we, as Christians, simply sit back, and not tell anyone how to go to heaven, and we don't tell people that it is through Christ that one can avoid hell, are we not shirking our duty as Christians?

    I guess I must be one of those extremists. You know, one of those people who doesn't believe that there is more than one road to the top of the mountain. Yes, we are to love our neighbor...but, the Bible also makes it clear that we love our neighbor when we share the Gospel with them. The Bible also tells us that when we don't tell people how to get to heaven, their blood will be on our hands. We, as Christians, have a heavy responsibility. It's not all rainbows and unicorns in the Christian walk.
     
  18. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    The key factor would be if the person is willing to hear what you have to say.

    I've had a van pull up in front of my house while I was mowing my lawn, saw three people get out, one of them walk across my lawn - in other words onto my property without invite - and ask me if I would accept Jesus as my Savior.

    You think this kind of behavior is acceptable?
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Would you have the same problem if someone came onto your property uninvited to sell you magazine subscriptions? I mean, I suppose if you have no trespassing signs up, then no, they shouldn't have come onto your property. However, I don't have a problem with someone coming onto your property to ask you a question. I had a Jehovah's Witness come onto my property today, without invitation, to invite me out to a Easter service. My Rottweiler wouldn't let him out of his car until I went out there. LOL.
     
  20. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    The difference is my friend, when I tell the magazine salesmen I'm not interested, he goes away.

    I have Pagan symbols clearly visible on my property. After I finally got the man to leave (I actually had to resort to a threat of physical violence when calm suggestion failed) I now find the same pamphlet he was brandishing stuck in my doorway every week.

    This is harassment. Do you condone that?
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The real question resnor is how?

    For me, in such a verbal forum as the internet Paul's adivce to dwell on things that are noble and charitable would be a more effective way of sharing the Gospel, being intellectual as it the internet requires written comprehension is it not a better idea to share what makes Christ appealing in the first place?



    Ahh, true, don't forget that the Internet is the Ultimate Marketplace of Ideas, if Christ is to be preached then bring the A Game, there is little to no room for the intellectually lazy on the Internet, this is a completely written medium for the Gospel, words mean things, in fact they probably mean more on the Internet then 95% of the conversations that happen in everyday life.

    One can say something dumb in your daily life and it's forgotten, on the Internet it lasts forever...:up:
     
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  22. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

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    I have a lady in my neighborhood who is Wiccan. She is one of the kindest people I know. When I found out about my dog's diabetes she gave me some holistic remedies to try and blessed him on the spot during a walk. (Not sure if bless the correct term, forgive my ignorance)
     
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  23. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    It's similar to a blessing, but more about energies than about asking for divine intervention.
     
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  24. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

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    Gotcha, in any case, none of my other neighbors offered anything more than a "oh that's too bad'.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, I would not condone that. The sort of behavior that you are describing would not be exhibiting a Christ-like attitude, and certainly is not going to be instrumental in getting you to consider what they have to say. Quick question, what religion is the literature from?
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not sure what you're getting at here...are you saying that Christians should relegate themselves to getting out the Gospel through the internet? Personally, I don't find that talking to people about the Gospel over the internet is the best way to do it.

    Kind of back on topic...the town where I live has a guy in it who is very anti-Christian. His license plate is "Infidel." I don't go to his house on a weekly basis to drop off literature, and bother him. If I was to run into him, and he decided to talk to me about religious things, I would take that opportunity to tell him what I believe. But, I wouldn't go out of my way to try to badger him into listening to what I have to say.
     
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  27. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    My friend...after all that do you really think I even give it a curious glance before I throw it out? :wink2:
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    LOL

    No, no I don't...and that is my point. They aren't doing anything that would draw you to Christ, they are just being jerks. I was just curious as to whether or not they had said where they were from when they talked to you, or whether you had checked to see who the literature was produced by since you are so upset by it. I would kind of like to know who was leaving crap on my door.:shifty:
     
  29. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Which brings us back to my main factor, res...that the person being spoken to wants to hear the message in the first place.

    I used to be Christian. I'm now Wiccan. I don't - and this is by NO means an insult - believe that Jesus is either my savior or the son of God.

    My faith in my Goddess is just as strong as your faith in God. Why on earth would I want to hear otherwise?

    There is absolutely nothing you could possibly say that would draw me to Christ. Not a thing. Unless he appeared out of the sky and told me himself, nothing you say would covert me back any more than anything I say would change your faith.

    This is why proselytizing is a ridiculous concept, and why "Live and Let Live" should be the way of ALL faiths.

    If I don't want to believe, and in your eyes I'm "damned", so be it. No?
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well, the thing is, the Bible teaches that it isn't me or any other Christian that draws people to Christ. We are to give the Gospel, and God draws the person to Him. The person has a choice whether or not to believe, however, even when they are being drawn.

    There are many people who didn't want to hear the Gospel, but, once they heard it, they believed, and converted. It's kinda like someone who goes to the doctor, and the doctor tells them that they have cancer. They didn't want to hear that, but, once they know, then they can try to stop the cancer. Not wanting to hear doesn't make it any less true.

    Live and let live isn't what the Bible teaches, which is why I don't believe in it. Like I said, I don't really have a problem with someone approaching you initially, but, to continue to do what they do is not right.
     
  31. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    And here is where we part company. I'm sorry friend, but you have no more proof that what you believe is "true" than I do. That is why we call it "faith".

    And equating belief in other faiths to cancer is disturbing, to say the least.

    Even more disturbing.
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I have never been drawn to the Christian version of God. Ever since I was 2 and I heard the concept of the Gospel I have been repelled. It did not logically or spiritually make sense to me back then and it has only made less sense both spiritually and logically as I have gotten older.

    To me it is more along the lines of going to a Doctor and he says that I have satan in my colon. That if I do not give up my life to his church and also my money then I am going to die of satan poisoning.
     
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  33. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    to chime in here guys.

    i was baptized a roman catholic. i guess you could say that's about the most christian thing i've ever done. my mother went to church religiously when she was growing up but never made us. what very little of the bible i know is roughly three passages that deal with aging and how to learn to accept your faith now rather than in the future when you can't anymore. i'd give passages but i can't remember the numbers to them.

    in any event when i did go to church rarely i found myself not being able (maybe not wanting to due to my age at the time, i was rather stubborn as a younger person) to follow along with what the person was saying. i loved the part at the beginning where everyone says "peace be with you" because when I think of faith I think of it bringing people together to share a common belief not tearing each other apart. As far as the talks from the bible went... I don't remember anything about them.

    Since that time I've dabbled with the following: Kwan Um Zen (buddhism), Druidry, a bit of wiccan, hermeticism, martinism, gnosticism and various other obscure faiths.

    My concept of God (or deity if you prefer) is very vague. I think it is more about energy and spirit than it is anything else; but those are directly around us and not up in the sky or anything like that.. And I think we have a direct influence over how these energies play out.

    As for the other faiths I mentioned I know I don't need to bring quotes into them because that is what they all believe. And, call me crazy, but I think that God, or deity, is in each one of us. I could find christian references to this to base it on that "know ye not that ye are the temple of god?". It's not exact but it's something along those lines. And I think there's naturally a bit of evil in some of us as well.

    It's how we take these forces and learn how to harness them that makes us who we are.

    Now, without naming those faiths above I couldn't even begin to tell you how I label myself as to what faith I am, because I just don't. edit: i suppose this contributes to my attitude towards other faiths. how can i be biased towards one faith when i don't even know what i consider myself 100 percent and why would i want that to be what everyone else does?

    I don't know what the point of all this was I just felt like typing something out I guess. I enjoy discussions on spirituality and this one seemed to be going in several directions so I figured I'd throw about 8 more out there. ... carry on.
     
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  34. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    Brother, you and I have spoken at length about this.

    It does come down to faith (IMO)...and that is what makes it special to me.

    We will always agree to disagree but you know I love ya bro. :wink2:
     
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  35. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I was driving back from Chicago yesterday and missed all this fun!

    Resnor, I think you finally came around to where I was trying to get to earlier. As a Christian we have a mandate that is rare if not unique in faith circles and that is to bring others to the faith. Only Islam, to my knowledge, has such an emphasis on proselytizing. It is all about how we do it!

    Here on the internet it is about words and behavior. In face to face life, it is about words, attitude, and living as a witness. Everything, that all of us do, everyday, "witnesses" to our beliefs, whatever they are and whether we like it or not.

    I believe the Christian way is corrrect and I stop there. I do not make the leap to "another way is wrong" because it does not help my ability to witness. Biblically I look to John 3:17 and note that Jesus isn't about "who gets kicked out" but "who gets let in" and move on. Recepetivity of the listener is always key.

    Pagan, thanks for bringing up this thread. It helps to walk a mile in the other's shoes even if it is cyber-vicaruiously. I apologize on behalf of all Christians (if I'm allowed to do that) for the jerk who is haressing you. It should be his way of "loving you" but instead is making you even more entrenched as well as raising your blood pressure and that accomplises less than nothing.

    You must admit, my friend by having the symbols in your yard, you are baiting the neighbors at least a little bit and deep down I think you relish the engagement (though maybe not while doing yardwork). Take care and whether or not you believe it or even like the idea, God loves you and so do I! :wink2:
     
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  36. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I was waiting patiently for you to come in and comment. I was at a loss for words.
    I've come to like and respect pagan even tho' we have entirely different beliefs. I can surely understand his not wanting to be pushed to anything. I would resent it myself.
    So, once again I agree with your views and I thank you for them.
    You're a special man, Pastor Keith.
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I wasn't trying to compare a religion to cancer. Rather, I was attempting to compare giving someone news they may not want to hear.

    Why is it disturbing that I don't believe it to be wrong for someone to approach someone and share their faith with them? I certainly believe that you should be able to share your beliefs with someone, just as a Christian can. I also made it abundantly clear that their continuing actions I do not approve of.
     
  38. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Don't get me wrong. I believe in sharing just as you do. I love witnessing.
    I just know that if some one says they don't want to hear it, I would rather respect their wishes, than to turn them away completely.
    I agree, we are to share our beliefs when ever possible.
    IMO you didn't say anything wrong or offensive to me, I understood the comparison. It's just hard to get our meanings across on a board.
     
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  39. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Don't get me wrong. I believe in sharing just as you do. I love witnessing.
    I just know that if some one says they don't want to hear it, I would rather respect their wishes, than to turn them away completely.
    I agree, we are to share our beliefs when ever possible.
    IMO you didn't say anything wrong or offensive to me, I understood the comparison. It's just hard to get our meanings across on a board.

    just read over my post, it sure does ramble. Sorry.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    The Warrior Sage Credo.

    From most Christians I have met in my life. I have seen more preaching than practice.
     

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