Top 3 QBs You Want & Top 3 QBs You Want to Avoid

There's too much information still needs to be found out. For instance, I don't want anything to do with Carson Palmer if he costs a 1st round pick and/or any "off the record" attempts to reach out to him show that neither he nor his wife really want to be anywhere other than California. And I don't want any part of Kyle Orton if he costs a 2nd round pick. A 3rd round pick, I'd be more on the fence with...and a 4th round pick I'd be totally on board.

How does Mark Sanchez even make this discussion? Just curious. Just using the opportunity to slip a jab at Sanchez?

 

Ranked options that would draw a positive (albeit in many cases only marginally so) response:

1. Carson Palmer for a 3rd rounder. At this price, I'm satisfied with any interest level other than "I'd rather retire". He would start the 2011 season and beyond. However, the likelihood of getting this price out of Mike Brown is minimal.

2. Carson Palmer for a 2nd rounder, if he's actually intrigued/excited about playing in Miami. He would start the 2011 season and beyond. However, the likelihood of this price/interest level still minimal.

3. Vince Young, as an hypothetical born-again Christian. He would almost surely start part of the 2011 season and likely more than half of it, if not all of it. However, the likelihood of Vince Young getting "saved" any time soon is minimal, and my interest in him sans-epiphany is also minimal.

4. Matt Hasselbeck as a free agent. He would probably start all of 2011 and bridge the gap to a 2012 1st round QB. The likelihood of Miami being interested in him seems high, but the likelihood of the Titans being interested in him is also high because they'd like a "bridge" to Jake Locker and the Tennessee front office people are very familiar with Matt. The likelihood of Hasselbeck's being interested in Miami over Tennessee seems low though, because of his longstanding relationship with Chris Palmer. However, IF the Titans are not interested at all, then this could work in reverse, and Hasselbeck's relationship with Palmer could make him more likely to choose to play for Tony Sparano, who was mentored by Palmer before he ever met Parcells. Hasselbeck is a candidate for a classic veteran bounceback year.

5. Tarvaris Jackson as a free agent. Why not take a shot on some talent? Talent-wise he's got a good arm, good size and obviously good legs and feet. Over the last three years he has an 89.0 QB Rating during the regular season and a 99.6 QB Rating during preseason. What if he's a David Garrard? That's better than what we have. The likelihood of Miami's interest in him is hard to say, and I'd only give him a 50/50 chance of winning the starting job over Henne at the beginning. However, the likelihood of him starting at least some games in 2011 would be pretty high.

6. Marc Bulger as a free agent. There have been recent questions about whether he wants to be a starter. Funny how people say things like that and they don't actually just, you know, ask the guy. That's just more of the joke drama that we mistake for journalism nowadays. He's an efficient, accurate passer that is beyond his prime, needs to feel comfortable in his surroundings and would need to feel protected. Well, having the best left tackle in football goes a long way toward achieving both of those aims, and he'll know it right from the moment he signs his contract. He's been around the block, he's a leader, knows the sport and could develop chemistry with Brandon Marshall. He's also a candidate for a classic veteran bounceback year.

7. Kyle Orton for a 3rd round pick. I'm not particularly excited about this possibility because I don't want the price tag to be so high that there is ANY interference with the motivation and/or liquidity needed to select a QB in the 1st round of the 2012 Draft. However, a 3rd round pick is just low enough that we could easily still see a 1st round QB in 2012. Kyle Orton would almost surely start all of 2011, and beyond. The likelihood of a 3rd round price tag is low, but not minimal. It's thinkable to get him for a 3rd plus a player (hopefully Phil Merling).

8. Caleb Hanie as a free agent. I just really liked what the guy has shown during preseasons. I loved the character he showed in the NFC Championship game, coming in and battling back from behind, making mistakes and coming right back out there guns blazing, keeping the outcome in question until the final drive. Talent-wise, he's a lot like Kyle Orton, but more of a wildcard because of the inexperience (could be better, could be worse). Accurate, aggressive, not the best arm, more active feet and ability to improvise than Orton. The downside is, the chances of him starting over Chad Henne could be low, due to his lack of familiarity with the system and players, and the nature of mandate implied in the front office's choosing a guy as inexperienced as Caleb Hanie to be Chad Henne's competition.

9. Donovan McNabb as a free agent. There have been times this off season when I've not even had him on the list. He's a long time west coast offense guy and they don't have a good record of transitioning this late in their career. His attitude/motivation/work ethic seems awful Favre-ian, which is another negative as opposed to say a Matt Hasselbeck who would also be looking to make a transition from career WCO guy to a non-WCO. But he's the most prime candidate for a statistical veteran bounceback season in my opinion, and who can ever say for certain what will happen when you roll the dice on a guy with his career record? He would almost certainly start the whole season over Chad Henne.

10. Kerry Collins as a free agent. I'm not exactly excited about this option but it's a possibility. There were times he played well in 2010, even better than Vince Young. He's a veteran that could potentially develop better chemistry with Brandon Marshall and be a bridge to whichever 1st round QB we draft in 2012. I'd give no better than 50/50 on his chances of starting over Chad Henne, however.

Options that would draw an apathetic response include (in no particular order):
-Kevin Kolb for a 4th rounder or worse
-Matt Flynn for a 5th rounder or worse
-Vince Young sans-epiphany
-Brady Quinn as a free agent
-Tyler Thigpen as a free agent
-Dennis Dixon as a free agent (no compensation)
-Billy Volek as a free agent
-Rex Grossman as a free agent.

Options that would draw a negative response (in no particular order):
-Kevin Kolb for 3rd rounder or better
-Matt Flynn for a 4th rounder or better
-Carson Palmer for a 1st rounder (with indications that he's less than thrilled to be in Miami)
-Kyle Orton for a 2nd rounder
-Brett Favre at any price
-Matt Leinart as a free agent
-Matt Moore as a free agent
-Todd Collins as a free agent
-Drew Stanton as a free agent
-Trent Edwards as a free agent
-Luke McCown as a free agent
-Brodie Croyle as a free agent
-Jim Sorgi as a free agent
-Kellen Clemens as a free agent
-Kyle Boller as a free agent
-Bruce Gradkowski as a free agent
-Troy Smith as a free agent

 

Top 3 choices:

1) Hasselbeck - Costs us nothing in picks (where this regime excels) and Henne will have to earn the job. He's still widely respected by players and as was stated, hes still very accurate.
2) Marc Bulger - Ideal competition for Henne; good vet who can throw it all over. Kurt Warner recently questioned his heart and desire but if hes willing to engage and try and take the reigns its worth a shot.
3) Carson Palmer for a 3rd or less - The only reason this is so far down the list is because it would cost us picks and this regime is solid at drafting. He is the best QB available but Im not sure whether he will ever be the same. No question he's lost some zip and I question his leadership skills having never really been able to bring Cincy out of the cellar for any extended length of time. I know the front office/ownership there doesnt exactly help but I still have to wonder....

Do not want:
1) Vince Young or any other running QB - Bad attitude on Young doesnt help either. Never liked him, probably never will.
2) Kevin Kolb - Asking price is prohibitive, fear he is product of Andy Reid. Be wary of Eagles..they always trade players at just the right time.
3) Kyle Orton for anything more then a 4th/Carson Palmer for a 1st or 2nd - Keep the high draft picks unless the QB youre getting has limited to no questions. We should have learned our lesson by now. You have at least 4 possible top 15 worthy QB's next year in Luck, Barkley, Foles and Jones...keep your ammunition in case Henne fails. Then do whatever it takes if Henne fails to land a stud QB.

 

When I really sat down and watched Vince play in 2010 there was no doubt that the NFL game was coming to him better than it had in previous years, and that he was knocking on the door of a level of QB play that I never thought he was truly capable of when he came out of college. However, you could also see the tangible results of his bad attitude and bad preparation, mill stones that hang around his neck and prevent him from really becoming elite. Because of those deficiencies, guys with far less throwing talent performed just as well as he did, on the whole.

I don't think it's right to call him a "running QB" in the convenient context that certain people use it to designate QBs they think will never win anything significant. And I'd be interested in knowing which other (presumably black) QBs out there fit into the group of "any other running QBs".

 

Luke McCown is about the only other one who is a scrambler that I can find that isn't African American and he pretty much sucks. Reflection of this years FA QB class. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with style of play. Id put a little green martian at QB if I felt he could win me games.

 

I guess I'm having a tough time with the notion that Matt Cassel, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger, Colt McCoy, Aaron Rodgers and Jay Cutler don't fit into that same category. If they were black, they would. That's just the truth, I'm not trying to make commentary on anyone. It's just the truth.

 

Are they free agents? No. Also have most of those guys made and won playoff games? Do they exhibit much more polish and accuracy as a passer then Young?

 

You're changing the subject.

 

Well, a 6 name list max is not my view, mine is based on cost/likelihood judgments:

-Most expensive 3 and Tier #1:

-Kyle Orton..going to cost a draft choice, 8.8 millie, he is the Volvo of the Qb market, safe, dependable, pricey
-Vince Young..he may be "free" but he isn't "cheap", swing for the fences move
-Carson Palmer, he is the Porsche 959 of the market, pricey, maybe unobtainable.

Moderately costly and Tier #2:

-Rex Grossman, looked good in a couple of games in DC, known quanitity, matured enough to avoid Dummy Stuff?
-Bruce Gradkowski, eh, firey leader, mediocre Qb, will be in surprising demand
-Donovan McNabb, looked done to me, but his worst season of his career is better then Henne's two seasons, big $$$$$

Charming Cheapies, Tier #3:

Matt Flynn-I like him, he has moxie and plays as if he knows what he is doing, will cost a pick
Marc Bulger-longshot of longshots, was playing poorly for the rams before taking a 1 yr sabbatical in Baltimore
Dennis Dixon-filled in well enough for Ben R, cannot seem to stay healthy

Gambles in the wind:

-Tavaris Jackson
-Matt Leinart
-Drew Stanton
-Tyler Thigpen
-Derek Anderson, many seem to forget that the Regime was high on him in 2008.
-Brady Quinn..eh, like some things, dislike others, suspect he is a career backup who should probably head to the CFL or UFL just to get snaps, think he can win in the NFL if matched to a powerful running game, his competitiveness has never been a question.

These are low risk players with some upside, if they beat out Henne in a abbreviated Camp, we all should know what it means about Chad Henne.
-Matt Hasselback
-

 

I don't see Matt Flynn being cheap.

 

Hav heard conflicting things Alen, like a late rd pick, or he is not on the market.

Do like him though, his movements as a Qb bespeak a Qb who knows exactly what he is doing.

 

Matt Flynn is another guy who belongs in the mobile QB list and would be referred to as a "running QB" if he were black.

 

So Hasselbeck at 35 is older than dirt but McNabb at 34 is a damn good QB?

 

That's crap. Tarkenton was a guy who moved a lot but he scrambled rather than ran. Scrambling is different from having designed runs in your playbook and to even bring race into it is just flat out wrong and unnecessary.

 

No. You changed the subject. My comment was in relation to QB's. You changed it to race.

 

What you say doesn't hold up to the candle of truth.

Here's an exercise for you. Name guys you consider to be "running QBs" and then define it in terms of how often they scramble for positive yards on passing plays.

 

Wow. That's a heaping helping of truth right there.

 

Your biggest problem is the correlation factor. How many black QB's can't run fast? I bet you they won't be named running QB's. Josh Freeman exists right? Is he called a running QB? No, he's called a big strong armed QB.

I've seen black players called deceptively fast as well. But, I'm sure if there was a white WR running a 4.30 40 yard dash, he'd just be called fast.

From an organization called NFLDraftInsider

http://thenfldraftinsider.blogspot.com/2011/04/nfldraftinsider-talks-with-projected.html

This is Cameron Jordan:



Look at NYJ. The fan favorite is Brad Smith. Bears is Hester. Seahawks, Washington. I could keep going. The fan favorite is the person who PRODUCES. The fact that they may be white or black or asian is irrelevant and unless you can prove it, I won't think otherwise.

 

A scrambler and someone with designed runs are two different things and you know it.

 

Easy. Tarvaris Jackson.

 

Eh, no additoonal value to be found in that CK, Flynn..quite frankly..LOOKS..like he knows what the hell he is doing.

 

Exactly. I have never heard Hines Ward or Davone Bess described as anything other then "quick" or short area speed. Based on that I guess Brian Hartline should be considered Rudy.

 

Want:
Kyle Orton: He's the best option out there, he has chemistry with Marshall, he's a top. 12-14 QB, and he doesn'tcome with any baggage. He would be a good stop gap for us at QB.
Vince Young: If he gets release we should definetly sign him(not a big contract) what do we have to lose? If he has someone to motivate him he will be a top 10 QB.
Matt Hasslebeck: Solid veteran QB will compete for the starting spot.

Don't want:
Kevin Kolb: System QB, he would put up the same numbers as Henne if he was here.Carson Palmer: Hasn't been the same since his injury, right now he's just an average QB and I don't see us making the playoffs with him at the helm. If its for a 4th round pick than we should trade for him but if its for anything higher we shouldn't do it at all.
Donavon Mcnabb: Put a fork in him, he's done.

 

I wouldnt call what Big Ben or Jay Cutler do running. Niether can cover enough ground to scare any one.

Romo and Rodgers will throw 99% of the time before they try to run. Still not a big run threat. Maybe a 5.5 forty?

Colt is just young and scared he will settle in soon or get serously hurt.(running for your life dont count)

I would not call Mcnabb a run first QB at all just saying.

 

Back to Gardenheads original topic.

Want
Orton This guy really showed some skills he's young i believe he has possibley his best still to show. Henne would have some very seroius competition to deal with and we would have two QB's which would be somewhat of a comfort zone.
Problem do we want to pay the piper now? I don't.
Palmer Vet who would make a impact right now.
Problem Trying to deal with the Bangals owner is it worth it. Does Palmer want to be a Dolphin?
Vince Young This guy really scares the hell outta me kinda a Ricky Williams in a QB if he screwed his head on straight he could be something. But you never know who is showing up for the party.
Past my three but one that i personaly have questions on.
Dennis Dixen I don't know if he will be available but he might be an affordable attempt at competition. Snag him from Pitts.

Don't want.
Donovan McNabb I just don't know if Donovan really wants to play ball anymore. Has he started getting in shape he's been lazy and now with the CBA crap does he workout or eat out?. To risky.
Matt Leinart The guy never has impressed me. Bright spots to far apart.
Kerry Collins His best is long gone.

 

Wow. That's a heaping helping of truth right there.

 

Every quarterback in the league has designed runs. They're called QB Sneaks. So your blaming and labeling a quarterback for the coach's play calling? That's pretty...special.

 

What are you talking about?

I think it is obvious that Palmer is not going anywhere for a third.
McNabb is a system QB.
Vince Young will be free.

How in the hell does Dirty Sanchez come some into this conversation?

Other than that I say lets get some football going and have a cold one.

 

Awesome

 

Jay Cutler has 4.7 speed and was always known as a good runner coming out of college. He gave the Gators fits with that, as I recall. Since he's been in the league, he's always been a guy that likes to scramble around and break the pocket and make plays that way. He gets pressured a high percentage because of it, but he also escapes that pressure. Similarly, Ben Roethlisberger is also a 4.7 runner and has always been a guy that likes to break the pocket and make things happen on the run.

This is just plain inaccurate. First off, Tony Romo and Aaron Rodgers have been held up by Tony Sparano as exactly the kind of scrambling quarterbacks, in the very same breath as he named Michael Vick, that make big plays by breaking the pocket and buying time and waiting for guys to uncover. Secondly, Aaron Rodgers runs a 4.7 in the 40. Third, as I've said before Aaron Rodgers ran on 7% of his pass plays this year as per Pro Football Focus.

The question is who WOULD you call a "run first QB" and in connection with that question, why do you consider that person a "run first QB" even though other guys that aren't "run first" end up running more often.

 

Its not about speed, its about the idea that a QB like Young will go through 1-2 progressions and run where as some of the other guys you mentioned will make 3-4 progressions and then run. I have less of a problem with a QB running as a last resort. I have a serious problem with a QB running 2 reads in to the play unless the pocket is completely broken and that is something Young does with regularity.

 

And you've tracked and studied this? You've counted the reads, averaged them?

 

Watched Young enough to realize that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

That is not so B14, if anything Young stopped doing that and made himself less effective in so doing.

Young has 10 million dollar skills, his problem is "you against you", that eye of the tiger is just not there for him...yeti.

 

Come on ck im talking about the Cutler or Roethlisberger that you can put on the field today not back in college.

Believe it or not i watch the Bears a little bit. His knee! Not so good.

And for Big Ben really? 4.7 have you seen all the tape on that huge guys ankles lately? He looks like he keeps the tape factory in business.

Ok i said they throw 99% of the time first option and i just threw that number out there meaning throw first.
So if Aaron Rodgers ran on 7% my number was wrong but my point was correct thanks for the official number.

I'm bailing out of this one CK i enjoy you and your posts i just don't get where you came from in this thread and had to speak up.

 

I disagree. His 2010 tape showed a lot of instances of him finally "getting it". Greg Cosell is very much against quarterbacks making plays with their legs, he likes tall pocket passers with rocket arms, and even he expressed the same sentiment about Vince Young in 2010.

I'm not saying I want Vince Young, he's a d-bag of the highest order and it affects his game play, but I think it's folly to call him a "run first QB" or whatever it is people use to label a player they don't like.

I don't understand the need for that label in the first place. Literally it's only use, is to broadly and misguidedly paint players with the same brush. All players are different and they deserve to be evaluated individually and if you don't think they read the field then you don't think they read the field and that's fine.