1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Trade Deadline Discussion (NOV 2/ 4PM)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pennington's Limp Arm, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

    1,020
    614
    113
    Mar 7, 2014
    Ontario, Canada
    Aside from the Tua/Watson talk (which is in other threads)….

    What are you hoping to see the Dolphins do at the trade deadline ?

    Geisiki and Ogbah are the obvious upcoming 2022 free agents who are going to require a big contract to retain. IF the team isn’t planning to pony up the cash…. It might make sense to move them now.

    Pricey veteran players like Howard, Jones, Parker and Fuller could also be made available.
    Lots of Howard talk lately and some teams that would make sense (Titans/Packers);
    https://www.profootballnetwork.com/should-the-titans-trade-for-xavien-howard-nfl-trade-rumors-2021/
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/heavy.c.../exec-urges-xavien-howard-trade-deadline/amp/
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

    16,297
    9,664
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    This team absolutely needs to retain the talent that it drafted/traded for and has worked out/developed.
    Gesicki, Ogbah, sign them all. What we need right now is continuity and consistency, identity and some good will.
    We need a solid foundation. We cannot, at all, repeat - we cannot - keep trading away the guys we've been developing. Not until we've got a solid core and the flexibility to move some valuable pieces for picks or value. We've had all the picks, we've had all the value. We've got lots of cap space. What we need right now are football players, and more specifically, Miami Dolphins football players.

    We need some calming influence, we need some growth, we need some peace and good will. You can keep tearing up seedlings by the roots and expect a healthy tree.

    EDIT - But if it turns out your chief gardener keeps doing that, or is mixing poison in the fertiliser, fire him and get a new one.
     
  3. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    3,222
    2,521
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Ogbah has 2 sacks.
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

    16,297
    9,664
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    You can't look at single stat lines when you've got problems all over. These things are composite. Just as average players will show above average results when surrounded by good play, good players can show below average results when surrounded by poor play.

    Ogbah is fine and he's worth keeping not only for his talent and commitment but also, as I said, for the sake of continuinty.
    The more good players we trade the more holes we have to fill.

    We aren't one or two stars away here.

    Keep all decent players unless there's some stupid value to be had and even then....maybe stick with the ones you've got.

    EDIT - Oh, and through week 4, per PFF rankings, Ogbah was 4th among edge rushers behind:
    • Max Crosby 91.4
    • Joey Bosa 90.2
    • Myles Garrett 89.9
    Considering the Dolphins' overall situation, that's a solid result and not someone we should be trading.
     
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,223
    4,230
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    TBH if anyone wants to take the contracts of X or Byron, I'm listening and willing to consider "meh" deals. Like, Byron for a 2nd/3rd, I'm considering. Also listening on any WR not named Jalen Waddle and I don't really care about getting great compensation. Fuller for a 6th? Sure. Parker for a third? Why not.

    I'm not trading Ogbah unless it's a strong win for us. I'd listen to Gieseki for an OK price. I'm not willing to pay him Kelce money. Just flat out, I don't think TE is a position you give big contracts to. It's not like he's really helping us win. I'd much rather have a mid-tier, cheap TE and invest in some quality OL or something.

    As for being buyers ... OL is the obvious place of need, but I don't know who is willing to give up actual quality talent.

    Overall, I know people are going to think Grier/Flores makes some desperation plays to try and save jobs, but I'm just not sure that's a thing. The NFL trade deadline just isn't the MLB or NBA.
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    38,581
    30,263
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    When has a GM or coach saved their job with a trade? Having Herbert didn't save Lynn's job and Herbert has been a successful rookie.

    The only way to save your job in the NFL is get results.
     
  7. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

    1,373
    416
    83
    Apr 21, 2008
    Aurora, Colorado
    If you can trade Howard for a solid return then do it. But who trusts this GM?
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,223
    4,230
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Trading players away and getting decent to good returns has been like the only thing he's done well to this point.

    I'm not saying they will, but I think that's a prevailing narrative among media and fans in general - making a splashy move to save a job. Personally, aside from Watson, which seems iffy all around, I don't think they do anything massive. It's just not an NFL thing with the size and complexity of rosters. Less room for one individual to impact outside of specific situations like a championship caliber team having one glaring weakness from an injury they can patch.

    I think we are in a position where we should sell and try to recoup some assets, personally. But that's not a great look for anyone, so it probably won't be done. The most likely thing is we mostly stand pat, maybe trade for a depth OL and hope they can be a starter, maybe trade away a fringe player or two.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    38,581
    30,263
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I agree that it is a narrative among the media and fans. It just seems like a really bad one.
     
  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,223
    4,230
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Not for nothing, Bill Barnwell just did a column with 10 trades for contenders. One involved Miami and Tennessee.

    Tenn gets: CB Xavien Howard, 2022 second-round pick
    We get: 2022 first-round pick, 2023 second-round pick

    My take? Done and done.
     
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    3,222
    2,521
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    I see Tennessee making a big move. This year is their chance to take the AFC. It's up for grabs in my opinion.
     
  12. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,223
    4,230
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Their path is pretty clear and between Tanny and especially Henry they are in win-now mode. They are better than the Colts by a decent amount imo, and the Jags and Texans are 4 wins. They could potentially challenge for a bye as well. Makes sense to try and shore up a weakness for them.

    Edit: PFF says they have the 5th easiest remaining schedule. Chargers have 4, Bills have 2. We of all teams have the 3rd easiest remaining. Eagles are tops, but they won't catch the Cowboys.
     
  13. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    7,651
    3,102
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    We've already traded everyone who's worth a damn. May as well trade anyone who someone is willing to throw a pick at so the new GM and HC can have something to work with in the offseason.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

    38,947
    40,641
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I absolutely do not want the team to trade FOR any players. None.

    As for trading guys away, it depends on the player and the return. There's also the factor of dead money vs the cap that would have to be dealt with, making trading some of them difficult.

    For example, I would be delighted to trade away Will Fuller for whatever we were offered, but the majority of his cap number is his signing bonus, and the team would take a dead money hit of almost 10m by moving him, making it effectively impossible. Jerome Baker is a similar case, to a lower degree.

    At this point, I'd be happy to trade X Howard for the right return. I've seen Tennessee suggested as a Trade partner, and if we could get a late 1st rounder out of him, I'd jump on it.

    If we aren't going to resign Ogbah, then certainly see if we could move him as well. Gesicki I hesitate on, because he's likely an important target for Tua the rest of the way and I don't want to take that away, even if he's leaving as a free agent.

    If someone would offer a 7th for Smythe or Shaheen, then adios.
     
    texanphinatic and KeyFin like this.
  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    2,995
    1,907
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    To add to your point, I think pressures and knock downs are just as important when evaluating sacks. Sacks can be dependent on collapsing the pocket and where the QB moves, assuming they just don’t flat out beat their guy and the QB doesn’t adjust.

    On ESPN+, they did 10 trades they want to see and one of them was Xavier Howard to TN for a 1st and 2nd. I’d take that in a heartbeat
     
    JJ_79 and Unlucky 13 like this.
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,662
    10,863
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Just read an article that speculated Howard to the Vikings and it indicated that the Dolphins are looking for a 3rd round pick (with other team paying his salary) or a 2nd round pick and we pay most of it. If any part of that is truthful, I'll be furious if we trade him.

    If it's a Tunsil-like deal, then I'll be thrilled if we trade him. But if we give the guy away for basically nothing then I think some people in the front office should be fired on the spot.
     
  17. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    2,995
    1,907
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    Sounds like he’s had some issues with his knee(?) and is injured again. Not sure you’re going to get much more than that. Would be nice to get a couple of seconds or a second and a third but we’re not going to do anything with his talents any time soon. I’m not sure he’s going to be anything in 2-3 years. Why not maximize his value?

    Assuming someone who knows that they’re doing making those picks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
    KeyFin likes this.
  18. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    3,419
    1,834
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Trade Anything worth value that’s not already under contract for upcoming years. Try to get some draft capital Then fire GM and or coach and start again!!
     
  19. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    3,222
    2,521
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Corners have a shelf life. I'll take a 3rd for an injury prone, aging Howard in a second.
     
  20. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

    1,111
    1,113
    113
    Jan 2, 2016
    Here is the thing with trading these guys for draft picks. Think about the guy drafting players with those picks.

    Let's take a gander at our last first and second round picks-

    Tua - 1st
    Austin Jackson - 1st
    Noah I. - 1st
    Raekwon Davis - 2nd
    Robert Hunt - 2nd
    Jaylen Waddle - 1st
    Jaelen Phillips - 1st
    Javon Holland - 2nd
    Liam Eichenberg - 2nd + 3rd

    Think about if you were a GM for another team and wanted to acquire these guys. Think about what you would offer for them today? How many of them do you even think that we could even break even with and just get back our original compensation?

    I still think we could get a first for Tua more on potential and a weak upcoming QB class. I feel safe in saying that Waddle, Holland, and Davis would hold their value.

    There are guys on that list like Noah and AJ that I don't even think we could get a 5th round pick for.

    This is not a great list, and I think trading our good players for players of this caliber would not be wise.
     
    mlb1399 likes this.
  21. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    3,419
    1,834
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Keep TUA keep waddle keep Phillips rest we can trade and start fresh IMHO TUA isn’t goi g to get us a return on investment might as well keep him till we have something g better
     
  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

    38,947
    40,641
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I do certainly think that the new coach next year (fingers crossed) rolls with him for at least one season, to see if a better offensive system can make it work. Cutting bait after two years would be foolish, IMO.
     
    Dorfdad likes this.
  23. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    11,319
    4,292
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Im fine if we get just a third for Xavien… guys, he does not want to be here… he is starting to become Reshad Jones, half assinf out there..

    if we can get a team to take on both x and byron, then so be it.. theyre not in our future plans..

    im keeping ogbah… i think if we go after a true edge rusher to play with ogbah then we got something brewing there..

    I think you may see the chiefs and buccaneers start to call too… their secondary needs help and theyre playing for championships
     
    mlb1399 and Fishhead like this.
  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    9,870
    8,364
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    The only real problem with trading away great talent is it tends to make your team a desirable place to play. Great players attract great players. Everyone wants to be on the winning team.

    Besides, I wouldn’t want Grier at the helm of any future draft picks
     
  25. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    4,300
    1,816
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    I agree but somebody has to pay for his salary.
     
  26. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    4,300
    1,816
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Sadly this season is lost and Howards shelf life is coming to an end.He will be 29 next season and injury prone cornerbacks don't last once they hit 30.
    The best time to trade him would have been this past offseason with his value never higher.I personally did not want to trade him because I thought we had a playoff team.Boy was I wrong.Should have traded him then.
     
    JJ_79, KeyFin and mlb1399 like this.
  27. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

    1,373
    416
    83
    Apr 21, 2008
    Aurora, Colorado
    Feel there is not enough meat on the bone for this deal. Late first for early second likely close to a wash in value. Then potentially a late second for Howard in 2023. Unless dumping salary is import for 2022/2023.
     
  28. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    580
    648
    93
    Jul 8, 2020
    Saw this on Reddit. Not sure why there's such a narrative about Tua in the national and local media, but I hope we hold onto him and give him a line to keep him upright next season.
     
  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,223
    4,230
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    So anyone else wondering what else the Bears would demand in a potential Parker/Robinson swap?
     
  30. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

    360
    243
    43
    Sep 29, 2016
    Their coach and GM don’t seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed, so maybe not much, lol
     
    MikeHoncho likes this.
  31. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

    1,020
    614
    113
    Mar 7, 2014
    Ontario, Canada
    It was nice that Parker got out there and showed he was healthy and actually looked good against a tough Bills defense.

    We’ll see if that leads to anything today..
     
  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,662
    10,863
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    If we make any trades today, I'm hoping it will be to shore up the offensive line and RB position.

    For those potentially leaving Miami, I'd like to see Will Fuller, Albert Wilson and Preston Williams depart. In their place, get us some good old Hartline-type receivers who run crisp routes and show up on every play (IE, running hard and catching the football). I'd keep the defense in-tact since there's no benefit to trading Howard at this point.

    Whatever happens, we can't make any big splashes because of cap numbers- the trades will be small/insignificant unless Howard goes to a contender. Then it might be a big day after all.
     
  33. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,223
    4,230
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    So there's a video posted by OBJs dad, just like 11 minutes of OBJ being wide open and not getting thrown at.

    OBJ for Parker?
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  34. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

    1,669
    745
    113
    Jul 31, 2011
    Hollywood, Florida


    Dunno if real or not but its out there
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  35. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

    2,375
    811
    113
    Sep 9, 2012
    Atlanta, GA
    FKIN FINALLY! Yes.
     
  36. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

    1,020
    614
    113
    Mar 7, 2014
    Ontario, Canada
    Not sure about that source.
    I would hold off on the cartwheels.

    Cameron Wolfe is speaking live on NFL net right now and giving a Dolphins rundown. Hasn’t even mentioned DEVante (More Watson talk surprise, surprise)
     
  37. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    3,392
    1,753
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Parker for a vet OL would be fine. We need to throw in Wilson and Fuller for good measure.
     
  38. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    3,222
    2,521
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Yes, Mikey Salads with 300 Twitter followers.
     
    Berezo, KeyFin and Silverphin like this.
  39. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Active Member

    101
    44
    28
    Jan 5, 2008
    Daytona Beach
    I'll wait for Joey Lasagna to tweet on this before commenting.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  40. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

    1,020
    614
    113
    Mar 7, 2014
    Ontario, Canada


    With Baker’s current injury, we could do worse (Duke Riley)
     

Share This Page