It depends on the value. If you can get Chad Johnson for a 3rd, you have to make that deal. If you can trade a 2nd round pick for Derek Anderson, you do it. In the case of Derek Anderson, trading a 2nd for him wouldn't really constitute as attempting to "win now", more like "win now...........and win in the future" given his age. If you were behind drafting a 26 year old John Beck in the 2nd round, I can't see how you would be opposed to trading a 2nd round pick for 25 year old Derek Anderson (if his contract demands are reasonable).

 

The one caveat that I would add is if that high pick was used on a young player of good/great talent at a position of need. That would guarantee that we have a proven addition, instead of a "hope we got a good one". Ex; trade Rd2a for a starting LT or NT under 26 years old.

 

My thoughts exactly....

 

I'm sure our 32nd overall pick will garner some consideration:thumbup:

 

Of course draft picks are important keeping your team infused with youth but what has killed Miami over the years isnt the lack of picks we had to use but the lack of development of the talent we have brought here, weather it be through traded picks, draft choices, or free agency. We have suffered from bad coaching since shula left. Bad coaching is what makes us look like we have bad drafts but the reality is we have drafted the talents but have not been able to teach them how to reach thier full potential. Well conditioned, disciplined, being able to exicute your postion to perfection is what makes probowlers, probowlers. This comes from good coaching. A good coach can make an average guy into an allpro and an all pro talent without a good coach can barley survive preseason cuts.

 

You don’t trade picks if you are coming off a 1-15 season. You have to figure we will really have something built in three years. Who do you “must have” today for three years from now? Answer- the guys you will be drafting this next draft and the draft after that. We had a decent draft last year, the first real start on the right path. We can sign some key free agents to fill some holes if they provide value. That usually means guys with (as Parcel’s demonstrated to Brian Cox) a little more still in the tank. We would hope the young guns will be there at the top of their game in year three. You build through the draft. I’m worried that we don’t have a fifth round pick! No offense, Dolfans, but next year really doesn’t mean much yet.

 

Agreed I dont blame it all on coaching. There is an element of bad luck and bad choices that do play into it as well. Still I have to say the bulk of responsibility lies with the coaching. I personally believe the HC is the single most important postion on a team.

 

There's a serious problem with your argument: you presume that the only way to improve is through the draft. Most of the time this is spot-on true: you draft talented youth, you develop them, and then you set them loose upon your enemies and burn their mongrel hides as you rack up the points.

But you have to consider the value of your draft picks and what kind of player you can get for them. The point of expending a draft pick is to improve your team, or at least hold its talent level steady. Let's take into example the rumor that Cincy would trade Chad Johnson to us for a 3rd round pick. Who precisely can we draft with that 3rd round pick who is better at his position than Chad Johnson?

The answer is no one. Chad Johnson is a top-flight NFL receiver. He will benefit us more than a 3rd round draftee, both immediately and in the future. Trading a draft pick for better value and skill is a proper use of the pick. It doesn't matter if Chad Johnson isn't a rookie. It matters that he's the best player we can get with that pick.

Trading draft picks is generally a bad practice. But if you can trade that pick and get something better in return than you would otherwise obtain, then you send that pick away and don't look back.

Want proof? Look at the Welker trade.

 

* Yes we have a lot of holes.

* Yes we are rebuilding.

If we do not trade the picks for players. (Nothing like we have in the past. If we trade now it will be for Starters that really good.) Then use the picks in the draft. That is great...if we hit the player. But even if we hit the player, there is still the chance the player leaves after the rookie contract. Which is about 4-5 years for most some longer, but they have escape clauses in the deals. I do think you rebuild from the draft, over 3 drafts you hope to find 6+ studs that is the core of your next generation players.

However if you trade any pick for a great starter like Chad Johnson, Roy Williams (WR), Alan Faneca. You just traded a pick for a player that you KNOW CAN play like a real starter that makes an IMPACT. You still build through the drafts & free agency. But instead of hoping to hit on a Day 1 Pick that plays the next 4-5 years at a high level. You trade that pick for a guy that has shown he can for another 4-5 years. You only really get burned when you take a system guy and put him in a system that never fit him. The player gets injured and remains that way. But then again that can happen with the rookie as well. There is always the chance that a player like Chad Johnson Talent Level...just seems to suck. That is a slim chance...but still yet a chance.

The point is...

It is okay to trade ANY Draft pick, as long as you are trading for a PROVEN PLAYER that still has at least 4-5 years in him. It is hard to get a guy like that in a trade, they have to be on a losing team and making a lot of noise or a new coaching staff comes in a wants his guys. When players like Chad Johnson, DeAngelo Hall or Roy Williams are on the block it is worth trading a pick. Think how off the value has been on really good players going to other teams.

I would NOT trade a 1st and 3rd for Anderson. I like the guy and would love for him to compete if Miami does not upgrade the QB position. But he has not done it for 3 or 4 years at the same level. That is when you could get the bust...trade that sets back your team.

That is just my view on trading picks...:ffic:

...Had to edit...lol. Left out NOT on the Anderson bit. lol

 

I agree.Good post.

 

I didn't say it would happen. I listed it as an example of a situation in which you trade the pick for a current player.

 

just think of it as us drafting chad i the third round cuz wr is still a hole we need to fill. its not like we are trading our pick for a rb (a position we dont need) cahd has high value as a third rounder. plus we would still get a top 10 pick, maybe land laurinaitis

 

Completely agree. I am looking at things this way-- if you can get an offer you can't refuse, I'm all in favor of trading picks for young players, or established players.

If Miami can get Ocho Cinco for a 3rd, that's idiotically smart for Miami. Johnson's a Pro Bowl level WR and would be the perfect receiver to line up across from and mentor Ginn. I wouldn't go much higher than that (maybe San Diego's 2nd, but that's even stretching it a bit). Yet at 30, he's still got a lot of tread left on those tires and frankly you're not getting anything close to as good as Johnson with that pick.

Sometimes when it comes to making pick-for-player deals, you have to look at the overall picture and ask yourself "is this guy worth more than the potential player we could get with the pick we're trading?" That was what ultimately baffled my mind most about the Gordon and Feeley deals because Miami was better suited going with youth in the draft than they were with the players they picked up.

Of course, with everything in sports, trades and drafts are a crap shoot. Look at Moss for a prime example. As we look at his stats, Moss for a 4th rounder looks absolutely obsurd in favor of the Patriots. However, keep in mind, Oakland gave up a first and more to get him, and ultimately settled for nothing more than a second day pick for good reason. Had Moss stayed in Oakland, I'm 100 percent sure we wouldn't be talking about him as an MVP candidate or as a guy who re-established himself as one of the league's elite. In Oakland, he just didn't seem to care and it showed in the field.

Sticking with the Dolphins, whereas the Feeley deal blew up in Miami's faces, remember when Seattle gave up a first for Matt Hasselbeck, who was about as established as Feeley was. Hasselbeck has gone on to become one of the NFL's better QB, while the person Green Bay selected with that pick turned out to be a massive flop.

 

Have to agree 100%. Chad Johnson is well worth a 3rd, as is Derek Anderson. One thing you don't do is give away our 1st and a 3rd for Derek Anderson. But if the deal is right, it's hard to say no.

 

There is only a little bit of truth to this.

There is only a modicum of truth to this. Yes, good coaching can improve a player's skill level, but you are flat-out wrong to put the blame on poor coaching vis-a-vis poor personnel evaluation. If your thesis was correct, we'd expect to see those poorly coached Dolphins that couldn't make it here, make it elsewhere, and they didn't. Where are those guys? Todd Wade was a high draft pick that flopped here, bounced around, and didn't make it. Jamar Fletcher likewise. Morlon Greenwood isn't any better in Houston then he was in Miami. Grey Ruegamer is still a journeyman. Where are Eddie Moore and Wade Smith? How far back do you wish to go? J.J. Johnson and Rob Konrad never caught on elsewhere. Do you want to go back to the Shula era? He was a great coach, he had great assistants, so why did this organization draft so many bums in the first and second-rounds during the latter part of the Shula-era? Guys like Billy Milner, Andrew Greene, Aubrey Beavers, Eddie Blake, Randall Hill, Sammie Smith, Eric Kumerow, John Bosa, Rick Graf, Lorenzo Hampton, Jackie Shipp, Jay Brophy, on and on. There is only two logical conclusions to be drawn from the evidence, either the talent evaluation for the last 20-years has been criminally incompetent for the most part, or every coach, including Don Shula, has just been completely inept. I think it's the former, not the latter.

In a league where players are recycled more than #2 plastic bottles it's a mystery to me why these highly drafted Dolphins never seemed to produce, anywhere. They were often not even thought of highly enough to merit second-chances. How could that be if it's just a matter of "talent development" and not talent evaluation? We often see guys let go by other teams because they haven't become the players they were supposed to end up elsewhere and become playmakers--Mike Vrabel and James Farrior come to mind, Ahman Green when he left Seattle for Green Bay was another prominent example. Brett Favre is another. Derrick Burgess is another. Marc Bulger another. You could go on and on. Not many Dolphins though. The fact is the Dolphins' front office has demonstrated almost no competence in drafting players, or acquiring free agents for that matter, and this goes back decades. You could probably argue it's a problem that started when guys like Joe Thomas, Bobby Beathard, and George Young left.

 

A) Derek Anderson had Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow Jr to throw to, along with a world class offensive line, something John Beck doesn't have.... yet.

B). Instead of trading a second for Derek Anderson, we can let John Beck develop and use that pick on... I don't know... a cornerback? A tight end that could actually John Beck out? Or even offensive lineman so he doesn't end up on his back? Just saying.

 

Yeah!! It will be as the last 1st rounder of other years.
:bighug:

 

John Beck needs a better WR, a nice TE and blocking help. But his mayor problem has been pressure, because when he took the control there was an inevitable comparison with Marino and everybody was asking for the first win. There will be better chances for him if we can add a better LT.

 

Under your own logic, it will serve to develop this young players.:thumbup:

 

Wrong perspective

I believe Johnson just turned 30. This team is 3-4 years away from Super Bowl contention. How good is Chad Johnson likely to be at 33, or 34? A guy like Chad Johnson is perfect for a contender that has a stable of proven veterans that know how to do their jobs and won't take crap from a guy like him. Johnson is poison for a rebuilding team. You guys act like he has no issues. He's a malcontent. He's been in fights with his coaches during games in the locker room for crying out loud. Johnson is a front-runner. He's fine when things are going good, he's trouble when they're not. Just like Terrell Owens, and just like Randy Moss. People bring up Randy Moss and say, we could of had him for a 4th round pick, what they ignore is that Miami is not New England, and we would of gotten the Randy Moss that pouted, and dogged his way out of Oakland and Minnesota, not the polite, smiling, record-setting Moss that the Patriots got.

And before someone says Johnson is just tired of losing in Cincinnati, what the hell is he going to be doing in Miami for the next couple of years? If he's that discontented on a 7-9 squad, how is he going to improve his demeanor on a team that just went 1-15? Now who are we likely to get in the third-round that would be as productive at their position as Johnson? The answer in the short-term is no one. But there are any number of positions we could draft with that pick that in 2-3 years could be substantially more productive then a fading wide receiver. We need toddlers on the field learning how to walk. The more youth we play now, the more evaluation we can perform, the better those players will be as they enter their primes. Contenders are not built via free agency. It doesn't work. Someone up thread mentioned Wes Welker as a successful illustration of a team exchanging the pick for the most productive player, but it is a bogus analogy for the simple reason that Welker went to a team that was within an eyelash of the Super Bowl already. The conventional wisdom is you fish for expensive free agents and trade picks when you are on the cusp of contention. A guy like Welker, or Moss makes sense for a ready-made team. Chad Johnson would make sense for a team like the Chargers, or Jags, he doesn't make any sense for us. The Dolphins would be no better today if Welker was still on the roster, but we might be a lot better in three-years because we have Satele.

 

Chad turned 30 yesterday....good call on that one.

As for the 3-4 years from contention.....that is far from a fact. While history is no great predictor of future events, the turnaround of the last 3 teams indicates that we can be competive as soon as next year.

IND - 1-15 to 9-7
NYJ - 1-15 to 7-9 to 11-5 and the AFC Championship game
CAR - 1-15 to 9-7 to 11-5 and the Super Bowl

I'm not saying that we will equal the turnarounds to of these teams, but why rule it out when they have proven that it CAN be done? Chad Johnson at the bargain price of a 3rd round pick, would go a long way towards helping.