1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua 2nd most effective deep passer in 2022

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FinFaninBuffalo, Jun 2, 2023.

  1. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,661
    12,659
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Smith was the starter at NYJ when Fitzpatrick came in. Ryan did nothing special those first 2 games when he subbed for Geno. It wasn't at all a foregone conclusion to continue with the backup QB. Furthermore, Geno came in in relief in game 8 that season. So he had another chance to play. Despite only average performance by Fitz in 2015 the coach went with Fitz as the starter. And 2016 was even worse for Geno because Fitz was playing WAY below average that year (overall he had a 69.6 rating) and it took until games 6-7 to put Geno back in.

    Basically, we have evidence that the coach didn't think Geno was good enough to replace an average QB in 2015 and a below average one in 2016 until many games of below average play from the starter.

    Also, he did start one game with the Giants. Eli that year was playing well below average, so while one wouldn't necessarily expect Geno to supplant Eli just due to Eli being Eli, the coach decided to continue playing a well below average QB even though he saw Geno play average in the one game he started in relief.

    So I think my claim is justified that the absence of data for some years is actually evidence of Geno's perceived ability by the coach being insufficient to replace an average QB, or in some cases a well below average QB, despite having the opportunity to prove otherwise in actual games. It's not the same as "no data" even if we can't put this kind of information in any statistical analysis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2023
  2. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,487
    2,973
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Another area where we can agree to disagree. Neither of us have any idea what was in the coaches heads. There are all kinds of reasons to start a veteran QB even if I don't agree with them (which I don't). I boycotted the Dolphins for a season for acquiring and starting Fitz.... BTW, you are putting faith in the opinion of coaches that were going to start Geno before he got hurt.....

    And, as I stated, there was no legit chance in NYG, SD, or Sea (before Wilson left) and IMO his chances in NYJ were questionable. No way for us to know for sure.
     
  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,661
    12,659
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    lol.. yeah I sit through the mess no matter how bad it is. As long as they keep the name "Dolphins" I'm a fan.
     
  4. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,487
    2,973
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    I'm not proud of it...... 50 years as a fan (51 - 1)..... Makes me appreciate Tua even more....
     
  5. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,487
    2,973
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    BTW, I agree with this part.
     
  6. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,888
    3,920
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    From nfl.com:
    Dolphins WR Jaylen Waddle on QB Tua Tagovailoa's accuracy making him special: 'Everybody sees it'
    Published: Jul 04, 2023 at 06:08 PMB
    Bobby Kownack
    Digital Content Producer

    Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa has taken his share of lumps in three seasons in the NFL, losing time to journeyman QB Ryan Fitzpatrick his rookie year and missing multiple games to injuries his next two seasons.

    The jury is still out for some even after Tagovailoa put up 3,548 yards and 25 touchdowns in 13 contests last season. Miami wide receiver Jaylen Waddle backs him, though, and he knows exactly what makes his QB special.

    "His ball placement," Waddle told KPRC 2 Sports’ Ari Alexander. "I think everybody sees it, knowing exactly where to put the ball so his receivers can not just catch it, but catch it and run with it. That's what makes Tua, Tua."

    The stats back up Waddle's take.

    Tagovailoa led the league in 2022 in yards per attempt (8.9) and yards per completion (13.7), as well as passer rating (105.5).

    Waddle was fifth among all wide receivers with 537 yards after catch (YAC), while his teammate Tyreek Hill placed just behind him in seventh with 514.

    They were able to do so in part thanks to Tagovailoa's accuracy in YAC-heavy areas like the flat, as Waddle mentioned, but the third-year QB also was also among the best in the NFL at deep-ball placement, posting the highest passer rating (124.1) on throws of 20-plus yards and second-highest deep completion percentage (24.5), per PFF.

    Although Waddle did not come close to his NFL rookie record of 104 receptions, he still benefitted greatly from his partnership with Tagovailoa. He set career highs with 1,356 receiving yards and eight scores while leading the league with 18.1 yards per catch.

    "It was just a mindset," Waddle said about his jump in yards per reception from 9.8 the year prior, also crediting Hill's skills and the addition of head coach Mike McDaniel. "Mike came in and really harped on YAC. Having a guy like Cheetah, who's a YAC monster, you don't got no choice but to learn from him and soak up all that game that he's giving."

    Waddle and Hill will again look to put up gaudy numbers in Year 2 as one of the NFL's best WR duos. They can likely fuel the Dolphins' fourth-ranked passing offense to even greater heights should their pinpoint-passing QB manage to play 17 games for the first time in his career.

    https://www.nfl.com/news/dolphins-w...-tagovailoa-s-accuracy-making-him-special-eve
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
    djphinfan likes this.
  7. Fincinnati

    Fincinnati New Member

    16
    19
    3
    Jul 3, 2023
    djphinfan likes this.
  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,888
    3,920
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Where does Tua Tagovailoa rank in Warren Sharp’s “Top QBs passing from the pocket” list?
    Another list shows the value of Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa. This time it’s pocket passing.

    By NickSabatino12 Jul 4, 2023, 1:00pm EDT


    For the last 3 years, most reasonable Dolphins fans have been sold on Tua Tagvailoa. We saw the potential in his rookie year, and then we saw how held back he was in year 2 of Brian Flores’ system. In year 3, we saw the jump. The offense was a movie when Tua was out there, yet somehow there’s still a national asterisk on his ability. We know the health scares, but there should be zero doubt about what Tua can do when he’s on the field.



    There’s a bevy of stats to back that up, including his top 5 PFF passing grade, his QB rating, his QBR, and leading the league in yards per attempt. He completely shattered the misconceptions about his “Nerf gun arm,” as Skip Bayless would say. Still not convinced? Hold, please.



    Yesterday we got a gem from one of the most respected analytic football guys around. Warren Sharp posted a top 35 list for “Top QBs passing from the pocket” and lo, and behold Tua Tagovailoa finished a step from the top. Number 2 to Patrick Mahomes. For all the people out there who don’t trust QB rating or QBR, this corroborates those grades. These rankings are based on EPA / per attempt, a minimum of 150 attempts. To brush up on EPA:



    “Expected Points Added (EPA) is a measure of success which defines the value of each play by the effect it has on the offense’s likelihood to score. For every play, EPA is attributed equally to both teams, and the metric is fairly reliable in identifying the best teams in football.”

    “Additionally, EPA can be aggregated and attributed to individual players. Such ratings are much more reliable in assessing a player’s contribution to the offense than many basic statistics, such as yards-per-attempt, completion percentage, etc.” - Pro Football Focus



    Last year’s “why Tua isn’t that good” excuse was that he was carried by his weapons and coaching staff, but his literal grade for “player’s contribution to the offense” per play is number 2 to the Baby Goat. With more lists and grades backing up Tua’s importance, maybe we’ll finally see QB1 get the national respect he deserves.



    Let us know in the comments how you feel about the list and what stands out to you.

    https://www.thephinsider.com/2023/7...warren-sharps-top-pocket-passing-quarterbacks
     
  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,487
    2,973
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    This is absolutely no surprise.
     
  10. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,487
    2,973
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Here is the complete list. Highlighted a couple of LOLs.

    upload_2023-7-5_7-18-20.png
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,440
    68,662
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    the haters just dont understand the intricacies of Tuas elite traits and how they help him seperate, the just see lack of size, arm strength, and escapability, none of which are Tua strengths.
     
    RGF likes this.
  12. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,487
    2,973
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    I am all for finding a guy that has all of Tua's elite traits in addition to size, arm strength, and escapability..... The problem is that there is only one of those guys and he is under contract for 10 years with the Chiefs.....
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  13. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

    762
    859
    93
    Dec 23, 2022
    Geno Smith is #21. Waiting for a reply from Soft taco...
     
  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,937
    10,453
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL


    Excellent video
     
    JJ_79 likes this.
  15. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,888
    3,920
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
     
  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,888
    3,920
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Guess who made NFL Network's top 100:
    [​IMG]
     
    Fincinnati likes this.
  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,888
    3,920
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Top Left Tua:
     
  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,894
    4,741
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
     
  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,937
    10,453
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Kinda dispels the notion that Tua just dinks and dunks
     

Share This Page