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Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Sep 27, 2023.

  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    They're myopic, not stupid. Take them with a grain of salt.
     
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  2. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    The article is just stupid. Penix is not a better downfield passer than Tua. There’s really just no argument there. And are you advocating for a guy that’s had 2 ACL’s in the past 5 seasons?
     
  4. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    How about Carson Wentz as a back up?
     
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  5. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Depends on the price. I’d be curious to see what McD could do with him. He showed potential early in his career, but he’s only played like 7-8 games in the last two seasons and didn’t play particularly well and before that wasn’t very good…sans those 2 good years at the beginning of his career.
     
  6. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Someone seriously suggesting replacing Tua with Justin Fields?

    Going to be a long offseason
     
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  7. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Just draft a QB, and keep doing it until you hit. It's not like you are any good at drafting anyway.
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean he did say "if nothing else as competition for Tua" do I don't think he's suggesting that Fields is better. I don't even think his post was saying that going with a different player would yield better results even that season.

    I could be wrong...but I don't think I am.
     
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  9. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I actually think Fields could be pretty good with the right coaching. If he wanted to come to Miami for a good price I’d be all for it.
     
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  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I really really hope they are looking into Justin Fields and his situation.
     
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  11. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    If they look into it they will find out he isn't good.
     
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  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Tua gets another year. That much is a given. It can't hurt to draft someone though if you think they have an upside. Tua has an injury history and we can't afford to continue being wrong about the position. I'm not saying Tua isn't the guy. I like Tua, I love what he's done. When he's on his game, he's deadeye accurate. When he has time, there isn't a pass he can't complete in this league. With that being said, there's nothing wrong with taking a flyer on a quarterback in the later rounds of the draft. Jack Plummer, Sam Hartman, Devin Leary, in the later rounds? I mean why not? It's a dart throw worth taking.
     
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  13. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they will because they don't have the money or trade capital, but he'd certainly be intriguing if McDaniel could make improvements as he did with Tua.
     
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  14. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yeah man. No way they will do it. Grier??? Lol. No way. I just wish they would. It would be a wise move, but again…..Grier.
     
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  15. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Best ability is availability conveniently no longer a thing
     
  16. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    The goalposts will always move. Same as it ever was. Made 18 starts. Led the league in passing. Year prior led the league in QBR. Yet some on here INSIST he’s a scrub. Below average. Cant win with him.
    Theyre not worth engaging with, its beneath your time.

    meanwhile on this earth, priorities need to be on offense need to be OL, TE, WR3.

    Defense: LB, CB2
     
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  17. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely still a thing, but last year was an outlier in a professional and college career of injuries. Getting rid of the ball quickly instead of taking hits.

    Tua will need to stay healthy again to shed the label.
     
  18. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    This was part of my reasoning.
    Yeah, if he could do what he did with Tua?
    Fields; bigger, stronger, faster, used to playing in bad weather, etc….. I was thinking McD could do something with him. Won’t happen.
     
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  19. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Mostly meant as a comment on Fields who also couldn't stay healthy his first 3 years
     
  20. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Cracked ribs, ankle, shoulder, hip, dislocated shoulder, dislocated thumb.

    No, these aren't Tua's injuries that forced him to miss multiple games in his career.
     
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  21. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Who said that wasn't a concern with Fields? Who said it was no longer a thing? You folks always trying to find gotchas for no fcking reason.
     
  22. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Fields would have to make an Allen level transformation throwing which is unlikely but teams gamble on upside for a reason.

    I think he'll got for a 1st+, and I don't see the Dolphins doing that with Tua around. Once they extend Tua, they are going to use the picks and available money to build around him.
     
  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I agree and with Grier around, it doesn’t really matter anyway. He’s never going to admit failure. Oh well. Woo! Good times!
     
  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’m really scratching my head in confusion here, and I’m truly not trying to be a sm@rt a$$.

    No one here is denying Fields injury history.
    No one here is denying he needs significant work on his throwing.
    Some are saying there’s so much POTENTIAL in Fields.

    And you’re guessing he would go for a 1st round pick? Based on what???

    If Mahomes was being traded, he’s going for a first. There’s demonstrated success.

    If Burrow was being traded, you could argue a 1st for demonstrated success, even with his injury history.

    But Fields? As Janet Jackson asked, “What have you done for me lately?”
     
  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I’ve said that I’d be curious to see what McD could do with Fields.

    Are people actually saying that he’s worth a 1st round pick in a trade?!! LMAO!! Let me guess, these people also thinks Grier sucks?
     
  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’m deducing it’s the anyone but Tua crowd.
     
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  27. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    I said it in the post you quoted. Teams gamble on tools and upside. Teams want high upside even if that likelihood of them reaching it is low. That's why Fields was drafted 11th to begin with even though he had a million questions on his throwing ability. No one is clamoring for low ceiling high floor types. Those can be acquired in FA or low level trades. To get Stafford, the Lions had to give up Jared Goff and two first-round picks AND a third-rounder. I think that illustrates what his type is worth.

    I'd be surprised if Fields is had for less than a 1st. I guess we'll see.
     
  28. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I think he‘ll go for a 2nd rounder and maybe some change. We‘ll see, we‘re stuck with Tua and Grier at least for next season, maybe it will turn out good and we definitely had worse. I just hope next year we’ll have some clarity about where we’re heading for better or worse, so I don’t see the need to extend Tua now.
     
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  29. DPhinz_Dphinz

    DPhinz_Dphinz New Member

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    Whether we should draft another QB should come down to one question...

    Can Tua, and by extension...us, beat the good teams that have good DC's?

    With everything on the line can we truly say we feel good having to beat the Bills...the Ravens...the Chiefs?

    As of right now, I don't see that happening. I place 30-40% of the blame on Tua's shoulders (depending on how well he knows the offense) and McDaniel gets the rest for poor play-calling...versus a DC worth his salt and not the bums.
     
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  30. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    lol… hello, “new guy”.
     
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  31. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Justin Fields is not a very good quarterback. He's a heck of an athlete, but he's not a quarterback, and what I mean by that is he's not going to throw his way to victory. If Joe Burrow sprains his ankle, he's still going to stand in the pocket, throw his way down the field, and have the team in a position to win/score. If Justin Fields sprains his ankle in a game, he's out, and done, there is nothing else he can offer. Under no circumstances is he a better quarterback than Tua. He's just not! He's a running QB who is exceptional at that, but he gets smashed one good time and he's injured. There's a reason the Bears are moving on from him and going after Caleb Williams. To me, I'd rather have a Quarterback who is a passer first and a runner second. It's why I've never really been a big-time believer in Lamar Jackson.

    In playoff games, teams plan for things like that. They put a spy on a mobile QB and they force them to beat them with their arm and these guys just can't do against a good defense. Cunningham couldn't do it for all his greatness, Michael Vick couldn't, Lamar has won two MVPs and has never sniffed the Super Bowl, Kaep did it with the 49ers and he's an exception, but he's also the worst of the worst on this list. I think the San Fran defense had way more to do with them getting to the Super Bowl than he did.

    I think the one consistency that always has and always will be with the position is first and foremost the ability to throw the football. If you have a guy back there who can make all the throws and is accurate, you always have a chance in a game. Justin Fields doesn't give me that feeling at all. Tua gives me that confidence way more than Fields does.

    Now I do think we should continue to explore options at the position itself. How does the team feel about Skylar Thompson at this point? How do we feel about Mike White? Personally I think both will be back and we're already looking at our trio of QBs for the 2024-25 season.

    Just talking strictly Quarterbacks for the moment, I do have a few free agents that I would like to see get a second chance as starters in this league. These are guys that are most certainly not going to be Miami Dolphins, but they have some untapped potential/talent. Keep in mind, Quarterbacks have a long shelf life. It's been proven time and time again over the years.

    1. Drew Lock - I wanted us to draft him coming out of college. He's had a few starts, I love his confidence out there, I still think he can be good.

    2. Jake Browning - I have a feeling he may be starting somewhere next season.

    3. Baker Mayfield - He'll definitely be a starter somewhere next year. Most likely back with the Bucs.

    4. Tyler Huntley - He's played mostly well whenever he's had to fill in for Lamar Jackson.

    Also, let's assume that Tua for some reason doesn't work out here with us. I would love to see this team trade for Sam Howell. I don't think he's in Washingtons long term plans, but I really like him. He is a fun quarterback to watch, the guy can really spin it and he's someone you love to root for. Word he's most likely available for a day 3 pick! I honestly think we should just trade for him and make him the backup to Tua. If Tua has a bad year or gets hurt, then we have his replacement in Howell moving forward. For those that haven't really watched him play, he's pretty damn good.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Question, which I think you would agree with, the concern with Fields is if he gets injured, and loses the mobility. But I think, and I'd imagine you'd agree, that a QB who is a runner doesn't have to be as good of a passer because his running potential causes the defense to play differently. So yeah, like throwing skills wise, I don't doubt that you are probably right to say that Tua is more skilled. However, if we're trying to discuss how each one might play, we're considering them as healthy, in which wouldn't Fields kinda be preferred?

    Like that doesn't mean I think he's better, I just think he can impact the game better. Like, I know it's not Madden, but just for a comparison, I'd take the 88 overall QB with 93 speed, 87 stamina 92 strength 82 throw over a 95 QB with low numbers in those areas but a 99 accuracy and touch and 99 AWR. Like I'm saying my 88 QB would have a bigger impact on the game for me than the "better" QB.

    Don't know if I'm explaining what I mean well enough.
     
  33. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I never said I would give up a first for Fields, just that I would inquire to see what it would take.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2024
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  34. DPhinz_Dphinz

    DPhinz_Dphinz New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  35. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Not watching an hour of that asshat but is that the video where he goes off on a rant about DouglieDoWrong saying he will have more subscribers than him soon? He showed his true colours in that video, truly looked like a deranged lunatic and any Dolphins fan that follows this grifter should be ashamed of themselves.

    He's not even a Dolphins fan, he's having a go at actual Dolphins fans on YouTube as he's jealous of their success and he's taking all of you for suckers playing the Tua angle for more clicks.
     
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  36. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Justin Fields? Seriously?

    Have you watched him trying to play QB from the pocket?

    He's the definition of a coach killer. Someone who has unreal athletic ability that they think they can mould into a QB. Problem is, history has shown that it is very hard to get someone to be more accurate while improving the ability to read defences as well. Josh Allen is one of those rare successes and even now he isn't great from the pocket unless it's against the Dolphins.
     
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  37. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    So you don't blame an interior OL consisting of Lester Cotton, Liam Eichenberg and Rob Jones? That gets a pass but it's 30-40% the QB fault? I saw Eichenberg getting pushed so far into the backfield so quickly that a screen pass hit him on the head. I saw him getting bullrushed and thrown to the floor not once but twice in that he injured the actual starting OL. I lost count of the amount of times I saw Cotton and Jones whiffing on blocks and allowing stunts to just free run past them.

    Tua didn't play well at the end of the season but there are extenuating circumstances from the interior OL being genuinely the worst in the league to Hill inexplicably dropping numerous passes that hit him in the hands at crucial times. I'm not absolving Tua of all blame, he looked very skittish back there at times but to say he's to blame for 40% of the issues is absolutely wild to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2024
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  38. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    My thoughts would be, who are the 5 greatest QB's of all time and how many of them were run first QB's? Top 10? Any run first QB's in there?

    Sure the run first QB can make flashy plays now and again but when it comes crunch time against good defences then in the NFL you have too be able to drop back, make a read and deliver an accurate on time ball. It's always going to be that way as good defences are just too big and too fast for a run first QB to make enough plays with their legs.

    We've seen great QB's who are pass first but can run like Young, Mahomes and Rodgers (and plenty more I'm forgetting) and I'd love to get one like that but they are all pocket passers first and foremost. I'll be amazed if Fields ever turns into a good pocket passer, we've seen 3 years of him now and history is not on his side.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well, all I'll say is, the game has changed a ton. However, some of the greatest QBs were dual threats. Moon, Cunningham, Tarkinton, Vick, McNair, Young, I could go on.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No it’s not that, yes he is an asshat, and yes that video calls Tua out for letting himself go.

    All true
     
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