1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Sep 27, 2023.

  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Tua really can't win when it comes to how some fans evaluate him.

    People said Tua's stans were making excuses when they said that his coaching and surrounding roster were holding him back, even though he had starters on offense who aren't even in the league now. "A good player makes his team better", they said.

    Two short years later, we have folks saying that his significantly improved production is mostly due to his great situation.

    It's funny, the difference a day (or year) makes. Just a year ago, we were wondering if the team would trade a pick for Dalvin Cook, because we had a committee of backups in our RB room that was seen to be a weak point. He hasn't had a reliable tight end, unless Gesicki counts. He does have stellar WR1/WR1a, but our backup wideouts haven't stepped up. And he still hasn't had a line to write home about (other than to complain).

    So, IMO his roster could be much better and can't be the main reason why he's playing well. I can't complain about the difference between McDaniel and Flo.

    We all know that every good QB needs an optimal scheme and good players around him to succeed. Nobody ever won a Super Bowl with bad coaching or a bottom-tier roster. What people miss when discounting good QB performance is that there are a crap load of bad QBs with good coaching and talented teammates. Credit has to be given as freely as blame.

    I understand people who still are holding out doubt about whether he's the Guy. I only have problems with people who can look at a 350 yd/3 TD performance in a win and still find a reason why it wasn't a good game. Those folks aren't serious.*

    *Nope, I don't count you among them. But they know who they are and I suspect, so do you.
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,429
    9,981
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I cannot and will not speak for others on this, but my position, going back to well before the draft, has always been, I don't think Tua is the focus of an offense. Yes, give him weapons, he can do more with then than most QBs, but I just don't see him driving the offense. I do think he's more dependent on surroundings because he lacks dominant physical tools. So I don't fault Tua for doing poorly when he doesn't have weapons, I kinda expect it. I also don't think Tua deserves as much credit for the offensive numbers as people just assign to him because he's the QB.

    It is what it is. It doesn't mean I hate him as a player or as a person. It just means that I don't think he is what you guys seem to think he is, and I think we should continue looking to upgrade if we want to be more than as flash in the pan.

    No one accepted those excuses when it came to Tannehill.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  3. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Yes, there are a ton of people that don’t understand the game.

    There are not, however, a ton of knowledgeable people who understand the game saying Tua is a one read QB. Hell, there aren’t a ton of unknowledgeable people saying he’s a one read QB.

    Of course QB’s will read a defense and attempt to get the ball to where his read is and will try to manipulate a defense with his eyes. Sometimes that read is wrong and the defense wins. If you think that is being a “one read QB” you should watch more NFL games. I mean, you yourself said that you don’t watch much NFL. Only Dolphins games.
     
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Wait… so Tua can do more than most, but he’s not or should not be the focus of any offense?
    And you don’t think Tua deserves credit for the passes he throws? Lmao… Really?
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,378
    68,574
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Tua to Parker, Parker has two of his best seasons

    Tua to Gesicki, Gesicki had his two best years

    Tua to sherfield, Sherfield has his best year

    Tua To Tyreek Hill, Hill has his two best years.

    Tua to Lynn Bowden, Bowden has his best year.

    Tua to Preston Williams, Williams has his best year.

    now add up what all those guys have done since Tua stopped being their Qb.
     
    OwesOwn614, danmarino and sandcastle like this.
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    You can’t give credit to Tua though. Those WR’s having their best year(s) was because of… of… fate or God. Yeah…
     
    OwesOwn614 and djphinfan like this.
  7. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    3,195
    2,374
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Hopefully the passes he throws are good ones. Seriously...I'm to this point with this forum. It's probably time for me to leave. You can't say anything supportive towards a player on this team without an argument being sparked.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,378
    68,574
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Come on just stay and fight :)
     
    danmarino and ExplosionsInDaSky like this.
  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    They only had good seasons because he throws southpaw. Since he's naturally right handed, you can't give him credit for making mid players better. Let's see him do it with his right hand and then, we'll have something to talk about.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  10. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    3,195
    2,374
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    It's not necessarily the reason I joined this forum, but holy crap! That's what you have to do here.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,378
    68,574
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    You gotta protect the house.

    I will say though there are reasons for Tua detractors to be in full force, I can’t deny them that right at this point to have concerns.
     
    ExplosionsInDaSky and JJ_79 like this.
  12. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    I’ve said it before, but all players deserve criticism as some point or another because no player is perfect and no player plays elite or good 100% of the time. Tua is no different.
    The things that are frustrating are when people just say things with not one ounce of context, objectivity, or any real knowledge of knowing what they’re looking at. And those that do this just because they don’t want to look wrong. You know, the guys who doubted Tua even before he took a snap in the NFL.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,378
    68,574
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Yeah a lot of the stuff is not accurate and doesn’t take into account the variables surrounding him as he entered the league.

    But after watching him not perform well in the last quarter one could chalk that up to injuries along the front line or his individual performance regressed.

    I can’t blame folks for thinking the latter last season.
     
  14. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    I think the last part of season had many contributing factors.
    Injuries were, IMO, by and far the biggest reason why they stalled down the stretch. Then we also have to take into account the strength of the opponents. Look at how Mahomes or any of the other proven good to elite QB’s played against those same teams this season. Tua played better than some, the same as some, and rarely any much worse than some. And then weather was a huge factor in the playoffs.
    These three things are just not refutable.

    I sound like a broken record, but context matters when evaluating any team or player. And if Tua was able to play, on average, about as good as any other QB against those defenses, even with the amount of injuries the Dolphins suffered, that should tell any reasonable and objective person something. Mainly that Tua has been playing at an elite level over the past two seasons. Elite doesn’t equal mistake free or anything close to that. And maybe someone like Mahomes could have played better than Tua with all those injuries, but I doubt it. Mahomes had a very average year last year not because of injuries, but because KC lost a lot of offensive weapons. Yet they still won the SB. Why? Because their TEAM was the best in the league. Yes, that includes Mahomes, but if he had a fairly average season (92 passer rating) on the Chiefs I don’t really see how he fares much better than Tua did on the Dolphins.

    Point being, I think Tua has been a top 5-6 QB in the league over the past 2 seasons. Yet some think he’s a bottom 5-6 QB. Which is just ridiculous.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  15. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    3,195
    2,374
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Yeah, he's by means above criticism. He was terrible in the playoffs and he was terrible to end the season. The thing with him is he's "fixed" at least one or two issues each year that he's been in the league. No reason he can't fix these.
     
    resnor and djphinfan like this.
  16. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,079
    2,553
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    No it's not all based on what Sherfield said, Kurt Warner said the same thing multiple times last season when reviewing Tua film. You guys just put your head in the said and ignore it.
     
  17. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    No he didnt. Warner commented on how the oline sucked and the play calling at times made it hard for Tua to go through his progressions. Here’s a quote from Warner regarding Tua:


    AP

    “I appreciate what Tua’s doing maybe more than most … the ability to throw guys open, the ability to see spacing and understand movement of defenders and how that means somebody’s going to be open,” Warner said. “No hesitation in the pocket. Getting the ball out quick, those are things that I know if I did really well that I really appreciate, and I think it’s hard to appreciate unless you understand what that takes to do that. And then I think I always appreciate good, creative play-calling and play design, and how that’s setting guys up with a little nuance that plays into that.”
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    “I think that’s what Kansas City does with Andy Reid because they have Patrick Mahomes, and I see a lot of those elements in Miami now ’cause they have those skill players and they have a guy like Tua that does certain things that most guys in the league can’t do.”

    —-Kurt Warner

    I wonder who has their head in the sand?

    Take what people say out of context and then ignore the overwhelming good things that people say and I’m sure Tua is a “one read QB”.
     
    ExplosionsInDaSky and djphinfan like this.
  19. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    I didn't feel like starting a thread for this tweet showing Waddle and Cheetah working out, so I'll drop it here for Tua to see:

     
  20. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    3,195
    2,374
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Dude is a straight up jerk on here. Ignore him.
     
    danmarino and djphinfan like this.
  21. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Terron Armstead's opinion trumps anybody's on this message board when it comes to Tua and McD:

     
    danmarino likes this.
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,378
    68,574
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    This Peasall kid is interesting as hell
     
    OwesOwn614 likes this.
  23. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,079
    2,553
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Sure like That's the only thing Kurt has said about Tua. Yes he says he's good at anticipating and throwing to open spaces that were predetermined based on play design, he also said the below when watching film on Tua, which is what I was referring to, not what you quoted above. Quite from the clip below "you can't spend all your time just anticipating, you gotta be able to READ it out and see what's happening"

    Also, "he's making his decision where he's going to go before the play, and throwing it there no matter what".

     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2024
    resnor likes this.
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Holy hell. You’re worse at this than I initially thought.
    So you’re now basing your entire opinion of Tua on one game? A game where he didn’t play well and was playing against one of the best pass defenses in the NFL? Have you bothered to look at how other QB’s played against that defense? Do you even realize that a defense can and does affect QB play? Do you realize that ALL QB’s make poor choices, reads, and decisions? Do you realize that ALL QB’s make bad throws?

    Cherry-picking one game or a few throws here and there is exactly the type of thing that the clueless and trolls do. Warner has praised Tua over the entire body of his career. And you want to show a few plays where he criticizes Tua? Lmao. Do you think Warner couldn’t criticize himself over a few throws and plays?

    You’re just not worth the trouble of explaining this. You have no clue what you’re watching or what you’re even talking about. You don’t even know what Conference the Dolphins play in. Lmao
     
  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,542
    6,287
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    He’s an elite, slow, short, small, weak armed, fragile, spot throwing, chubby, pineapple pizza eating mofo’….But he’s mine!!! I love him! Tua!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Let’s go!! Let’s go!!

    :oldtoker:
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2024
    resnor and OwesOwn614 like this.
  26. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,418
    4,087
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    Tyreek looks kinda thick.
     
  27. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    4,666
    1,792
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany

    Looking leaner…
     
    resnor likes this.
  28. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    He’s definitely come out of his shell. I remember some of his first interviews and he was very stiff and looked extremely uncomfortable. Armstead, on the Eisen Show remarked about how Tua has grown into a good leader. Love the confidence he’s showing…

    And… he’s definitely been putting in work to look this slim now. He’s lost a lot of weight since January.
     
    resnor, djphinfan and JJ_79 like this.
  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,892
    4,739
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    Tua is also officially working out with a quarterback coach this off-season. None other than former Miami Dolphins great John Beck, who actually has become a highly regarded quarterback coach.
     
  30. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Beck and Tom House. 2 of the best, if not the best, QB coaches in the world. Brady, Brees, and a few other all time greats utilized their services. I was ecstatic to hear that he employed these guys.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,378
    68,574
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    He does look like he’s lost a lot.
     
    danmarino and resnor like this.
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,429
    9,981
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I do not think that post implied that Hitman is basing things off of only one game. Just that those clips show Warner saying the things that people on here have said.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  33. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    He’s implying that Tua is a one read QB and using one game with a few throws to make that judgement. He’s leaving out context and the other 99% of Tua’s play, along with the accolades that everyone, including Warner, has given Tua. It would be like looking at Barry Sanders on a couple his many negative running plays, completing ignoring his other plays, and then proclaiming that Sanders loses more yards than he gains. It’s absurd.
    Like I said, it’s not worth discussing any of this with him. He doesn’t even know what conference the Dolphins play in for crying out loud.
     
  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    And he loves you.
    [​IMG]
     
    resnor and Sceeto like this.
  35. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,149
    5,874
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Exactly. Taking one play and saying see! Kurt says he is a one read QB! Or, even dumber, saying "see! he makes no post snap reads and throws to one predetermined spot!" It's asinine. Kurt does really good long form breakdowns that only get clipped out to try to prove these silly statements. I'm going to post Kurts last Tua/Dolphins breakdown below. It's an hour long. Bet it doesn't make a difference even though Tua hits his 3rd read on the second play he breaks down. And, it was a negative play that Kurt had valid criticism of. I wish we could have good discussion of the areas that Tua and Miami need to work on, instead the debate is this nonsense.

     
    VManis and danmarino like this.
  36. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,418
    4,087
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    “You’ve got to give him all the credit,” G.M. Chris Grier told reporters on Tuesday regarding Tua’s decision to work with a private quarterback coach this year. “He is just like last offseason when he attacked to stay healthy and doing the jiujitsu or judo, whichever one, but he’s just — watching him work and how he wants to be great. He took all this stuff on his own and told us what he was going to do, so you’ve got to give him all the credit on that.”

    He went from adding weight last year to losing some weight this year. Grier was asked whether that was something the team wanted him to do.

    “I think this again is to his credit,” Grier said. “He’s trying to do everything he can to do what he can to be great. And that’s been from Day One when Mike [McDaniel] and him connected here, working through the first season and then making the changes offseason, working through last year, staying healthy, leading the league in passing and now this is his next evolution. As Mike has told you guys, we feel like there is a whole other step that he can take, so we’re excited about his future.”

    Reading between the lines, it sounds as if Tua is doing the things he believes the team wants him to do, without the team expressly telling him to do them. And Tua seems to be picking up, and acting on, the cues from the team as to the things they think he needs to do to get to the next level.

    For both sides, the future consists of one more year under contract. The question is whether the Dolphins will give him a long-term deal before the 2024 season begins, or whether they need to see where he is and how far he has come before making a long-term commitment.

    They have the franchise tag at their disposal for 2025. Still, at some point they need to make a financial gesture that converts their words to tangible action.

    The challenge continues to be finding the right number for that. Where in the continuum of quarterback contracts does Tua fit? If the two sides agreed on that, they’d already have a deal.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,429
    9,981
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    It makes it hard to say that your version is the truth, when you can listen to Tua himself says that the only reason he's looking at other receivers is too draw the defenders "so I can no look it in there," or something almost exactly like that statement.

    This isn't all or nothing. NO ONE is claiming that Tua NEVER goes through progressions, or is incapable. Just that his norm is to not go through progressions, and that when he does, he tends to struggle (I know I know there are many reasons a QB might struggle, but I'm not laying blame here).
     
  38. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Take a look at the little aqua dot on the bottom right:

    [​IMG]
     
    danmarino likes this.
  39. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    15,893
    21,729
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    That stat is only due to luck and him being a one read QB. How else can he lead or be near the top in nearly every QB stay? He just throws it to the left and even though no one is there Tyreek is fast enough to cover the width of the field in a nanosecond in order to catch it. Lol
     
    OwesOwn614 likes this.
  40. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,876
    3,908
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
    danmarino likes this.

Share This Page