Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

They have their ideas of how a successful team is built and how a successful QB should operate, which is fine, but they totally ignore the results and refuse to budge when their ideas are proven wrong. Most of these negative posters hated the Tua pick and nothing short of a SB will make them see that he’s already proven them wrong. As if the QB is the only thing that matters when winning SB’s. Dolphins fans know that it takes more and all we have to look at as an example is Dan Marino. Or any of the other really good to great QB’s that failed to win a SB. It takes a good team, a good HC, and a little luck to get to and win a SB. Maybe some of the all time greats could have won a SB with this team, but with the injuries sustained last season, I doubt that is even true. For all of Brady’s accolades he needed really good teams to win a SB. In New England, he played two seasons… TWO… with a below average defense. In both seasons they ranked 17th. In one of those seasons the Pats failed to make the playoffs, and in the other they lost in the WC game. That’s just one example. There are many more.

 

How are you still having these debates? I needed to step away from this forum. Likely won't be back much. Just too much running around in circles.

 

I seriously considered going out in a "blaze of glory".... LOL

 

Just put the obvious trolls on ignore. It can be tough to figure out the trolls from those that simply cannot see their logical fallacies, but I usually error on ignore. Occasionally, I click the "show ignored content" link to check if I am missing anything... I'm not.

 

Don’t let the clowns keep you away. We need level headed and objective people like you around here.

 

I’m sure it’s hard to love a team you don’t really root for. I imagine that the Dolphins are probably much better than whomever they are fans of so they come here and try to project their sadness onto the Dolphins and the fans of Miami.

 

Which is weird cause it's Fin-O.

I kid, I kid. But there was a time I wouldn't have been. Lol

 

Who specifically do you think wants that?

 

It would have been “to hell with the TOS and full on blast”. I decided it wasn’t worth my time.

Ultimately, I was here to have real football discussions about my team. Sadly the discussions have remained stuck in a loop. IMO the negative side provides very little objective information. Not worth debating with people who add no value.

 

Well, the injury prone Burrows looks like he’s more fragile and in worse shape than we knew.
/sarcasm

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2024/5/...ry-inflammation-orthopedic-surgeon-bengals-qb

 

You are one of the more knowledgeable and intelligent posters on here. Please stay.

 

So what's your opinion on Tua staying healthy this year if he loses the weight he put on to keep himself from getting hurt?

This is an honest question, as wasn't the consensus that he had to bulk up to take hits better and not get hurt?

 

I don’t think Tua is at any more risk of injury than most other QB’s. I think some QB’s are able to better protect themselves by way of avoiding hits. Allen, on top of being heavy, is good at juking and fake sliding to avoid hits, for example, but I think anytime any QB gets squared up with a defender they risk injury.

I think being heavier, in a healthy way, can help cushion impact. Last season Tua went from solid to not so solid. The latter, even if the weight is around the same or even greater, IMO, makes a person slower and more likely to get injured because they can’t react as fast. In other words, it’s not the weight, per se, it’s the muscle and awareness that lessens the chances of getting injured. Saying that, if a 300lb lineman falls on your leg and causes it to hyperextended or bend in an unnatural way there’s not much you can do to prevent injury. Maybe being more flexible will help, but only to a point.

 

Looking at Tua’s hits/tackles 2022 vs 2023, I don’t have any concerns, provided of course it’s not a cheap shot.

If you look at sacks, hits or tackles on Tua in 2022, there were numerous times the back of his head hit the turf. It was just how he fell when he was tackled.

If you look at sacks, hits or tackles on Tua in 2023, you’ll notice a distinct difference in how he falls, rotating his body to prevent that type of impact, not to mention the concussion resistant helmet he’s now wearing.

The rib injury he sustained against Buffalo back in 2021, although a “legal”’tackle, was a blind sided cheap shot and the result of a missed block by the OL. That was also the co-coordinated offense by Godsey and Studesville which was anything but a tailor made offense for Tua’s skills set.

I went on a bit more than I intended but the bottom line, I’m not very concerned about a Tua injury with the weight loss.

 

The fall he took against Buffalo in 2022 was the first concussion / back injury depending on who the witness is on the stand. He was pushed to the ground and slammed the back of his head. The exact same thing happened last season (I'm 99% sure it was against the Jets on black friday). He looked like Kung Fu Panda going to the ground after being pushed. The training worked and in fact saved his career. I think getting leaner will help him even more.

 

One thing no one seems to take into consideration is that Tua suffered a horrific hip injury. When an injury like that occurs, there’s not only skeletal, muscle, and other soft tissue injuries, but there’s neurological injuries as well. When a player tears an ACL the nerves must also have time to heal and reorganize the signals from the leg to the brain. I think it was a huge mistake to allow Tua to come back so soon. I think because of that he wasn’t fully healed until well into his 2nd NFL season. I believe he fell the way he did last season partly because he was still trying to protect his hip. Of course the Bengals game was different, that was just a dirty play and any QB would suffer the same fate if it had happened to them.

 

In Buffalo there’s just no way we can say that he did or didn’t have a concussion. I DO believe he stumbled because he hit his head, however, that isn’t a sure sign of concussion. He was checked over by the neurologist and cleared. Now, concussion diagnosis isn’t a perfect science, but it’s all we have, and he was cleared and deemed to not have suffered a concussion. It was never reported that he had and concussion symptoms later in the week, either. So for me, I’ll believe the neurologist and team docs over someone on TV or other fans claiming he had a concussion.

Tua’s concussions, albeit no concussion is good, have been totally overblown due to the visuals after the one in Cinci. If it had been his legs/feet instead of his fingers no one would have really said anything other than they hope he’s OK.

 

FYI, Tua is likely getting at least 53/yr and possibly more, if we can take that Goff contract structure and see how it applies here. Not dissimilar guys actually.

 

He's also older, on his third contract and second team and was left for dead by the Rams. He was also widely considered a product of McVay and the talent around him (namely OL and Todd Gurley). He has had a nice career renaissance here, but I don't see how Tua or Grier look at that and think less.

I can tell you that there is a somewhat small but vocal cabal of Lions fans who view him very similarly to how some fans view Tua. Those fans are currently going nuts saying how they are astonished Goff got more than 50 and that he really deserved 40.

The reality is, 50+ is the bare minimum for high level QB play. Tua gives us high level QB play and will get that deal.

 

The thing with the "potential interception" stat is that there is a flaw in the methodology. It is based on the assumption that all potential interceptions ate equal and that over the league roughly 50% of potential interceptions become actual interceptions.

The flaw is that some QBs continually have high "potential interceptions" but low actual interceptions. Drew Brees for example always had lower than predicted actual interceptions. If it was random chance then over several seasons the discrepancy would even out, but for some QBs it never did.

My observation is that highly accurate QBs with quick released were the ones that outperformed the model. My explanation is that many of their "potential interceptions" were more difficult for defenders to catch through a combination of the defender having less time to react and ball placement that made it harder to intercept.

This is without taking into account the subjective assessment of what truly is or is not a "potential interception". Many bad throws that could have been intercepted the defender doesn't even touch because of poor play by the pass defender. These are usually not counted as "potential interceptions". Other plays require a heroic effort by an All-pro for the defender to even get s finger on the ball, yet these ones often do get counted as a "potential interception".
If you remember the "4 almost interceptions" game against Pitt, only one of those was a truly a bad pass that should have easily been intercepted, the other 3 were much more difficult and required very good defensive play, higher than NFL average play, just to count aa a "potential interception".

 

I've been lurking in the off season. Not too much happening and many circular arguments that are never going to get resolved.

 

I never did get the “potential interception” or “should’a been interception” argument. There have been many discussions critical of Tua about the should’a been intercepted arguments.

If folks are going to point to…I don’t know…stat (?) as an argument against Tua, shouldn’t the same measuring stick be applied to the “should’a been caught” “stat” as well?

 

Buddy I live here. There is absolutely a section of fans who did not want to pay Goff over 50.They like him but do t think he is elite or worth the money.

They say a lot of the same things we hear here - he's not mobile, he doesn't have a big arm, he's a game manager, he doesn't extend plays, it's the team that is holding him up.

It's just as silly there as here. I suspect it's people who saw him come in thinking he was a bridge and not a solution and they can't accept a narrative that has changed.

The parallels between them are rife. And just as he got money, so will Tua, and the fans that don't like him need to get over it.

 

GM? With his takes I seriously question what is going on upstairs and wouldn't even want him at the team's waterboy.

 

It is small, thus a minority. But they are very loud. The point isn't to debate Goff, it's to show that there are always vocal minorities who will struggle to see beyond initial impressions.

Tua will get paid something along the lines of what Goff, a not dissimilar QB, got paid. And the same people who cry about him now will double down.

 

Correct. Arm strength makes it easier, as you can throw later, but just having great arm strength make you a good deep ball thrower. Jawalrus Russell had crazy arm strength but he was ****.

I don't truly understand why you want to argue this point. (Actually, I DO understand why, but you'll never admit it)

 

Why wasn't he playing, and why do you seen to think that shouldn't factor into someone's opinion?