1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Sep 27, 2023.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    If we didn't have Tua, would you be clamoring to bring Goff in at a price tag like that?
     
  2. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,155
    5,885
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Tua is better and younger, so likely will get more $. It's going to get even sillier here. They are going to act like it's their money.
     
    danmarino and Tuanon4Life like this.
  3. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,489
    2,976
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    The arm strength argument comes down to this: When we got Tyreek, a very very vocal few said "Tyreek will be wasted, Tua doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep!" They were adamant. After Tua leads the league in deep ball passing, the same people claimed "You don't need good arm strength to be an effective deep ball thrower!" Just as adamantly......
     
  4. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,456
    4,132
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    So what you're saying he has crazy arm strength and is supremely accurate. Thank you for making my point.
     
  5. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    4,456
    4,132
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    Right. The circular logic is astounding. Almost.
     
    ExplosionsInDaSky likes this.
  6. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,155
    5,885
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Then it was he cannot throw a deep out, but he also threw a bunch of deep outs... Now, it's he doesn't have the arm to make off platform throws that Herbert and others can, which is true. Or, that he cannot muscle in the late throws that others can, also true. It's fascinating how the discussion evolved, and how some are in denial about what was said at various times. His arm has also gotten stronger as he rehabbed his legs back and further developed them. Shocking developments, right?

    He is always going to be on the low end of acceptable arm strength, but I don't see anyone saying that he isn't at least in the acceptable zone any longer. I also ignored the obvious trolls, so your mileage may vary. It's the "he makes one read", or "throws to a spot" arguments that make me question human sentience now. Are they possibly just robot replicants? Reptiods conducting psychological experiments? I am not sure.

    **edit lol psychological, apparently I am the reptile life form**
     
  7. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

    18,835
    24,445
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    What "potential interception" stat are you referring to here? I am familiar with one by PFF that compares expected interception rates to actual interceptions, but it is not based on the assumption that all potential interceptions are equal nor does it assume roughly 50% of potential interceptions become actual interceptions. With the PFF version, Brees' career actual interceptions were just about the same as his expected interceptions. Luck is involved in interceptions, so not everyone's career actual interceptions will match their expected interceptions -- one should expect a range of variance for different players. Rodgers is the one who seemed to consistently have fewer actual interceptions than expected ones, but his expected interceptions were also always very low and even if he his actual interceptions matched his expected interceptions he still would have thrown very few interceptions.

    I am also familiar with a metric for dropped interceptions, but that is something different. And I've also seem metrics that try to determine which ones are the QB's fault vs. the fault of the receiver or someone else. Which "potential interception" metric are you talking about?
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,975
    4,906
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    No because he would not be available. Should the Lions have made that deal? Absolutely. Should we make a similar one with Tua? Absolutely.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  9. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    16,058
    21,985
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    He wasn’t playing because the league treated the Dolphins and Tua’s concussion differently than they treat other player’s concussions. Does anyone blame Purdy for the 49ers loss last year in the playoffs because he tore his UCL?
     
    resnor likes this.
  10. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    16,058
    21,985
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    Most of the top QB’s in the league (meaning those still not on a rookie contract) are getting about 15% to 17% of their team’s cap. Goff is getting 12% next year. Tua will, and should, get at least that much.
     
    Two Tacos likes this.
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,695
    68,991
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    They as in a few :)

    Not worried..let’s stop using their favorite pronouns :)
     
  12. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,975
    4,906
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Goff is still on his prior extension next year, that's why it is low. It will go up to like 18ish the year after when this new deal kicks in (. If Tua ends up costing 20% or lower of our 2025 cap it will be a pretty decent deal.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  13. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,975
    4,906
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Also, if the cap next year shoots up as much as it did this year, I'd suspect guys like Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, etc to be looking at adjustments. So it's possible that those deals, which don't look bad in light of the increases, will increase.
     
  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    11,983
    10,532
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    At some point, I can see this becoming an issue of animosity among players. The cap keeps going up and who keeps getting the lion’s share? At some point other players are going to start asking, “well what about me?”

    “Why can’t I get a 10 year $500 million deal?”

    It may not come today or tomorrow but knowing human nature as I do, it’s coming.
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Sure thing bud
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    So if people were pointing to injuries as a problem, him being held out by the league doesn't really have any bearing on what they were saying.
     
  17. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    16,058
    21,985
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    The league was holding Tua and the Dolphins to a different standard when it came to concussions. All one has to do is look at all the players that suffered concussions last year and the year prior and see the difference.
     
    Puka-head and Tuanon4Life like this.
  18. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,489
    2,976
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    It is the constant moving goal posts and the ridiculous denials that are the craziest. That and the grasping at straws. "He can't make the off platform throws that Allen and Herbert make".... okay, I'll give up all 5 of them that matter each year and keep the much better efficiency for the HUNDREDS of other throws, thank you very much.
     
    Puka-head, Two Tacos and danmarino like this.
  19. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,155
    5,885
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Tua is a very public figure and gets more attention and was for used by others to make points about concussions and the NFL. The facts of the circumstances around his injuries didn't really matter as they weren't point. I think the circumstances were tailored to fit a narrative, but honestly they didn't need much alteration. Questionable (expert opinions don't and didn't stop the questions) prior concussion protocol nonuse followed by a horrific primetime injury to a star player. I still don't understand how that wasn't a penalty, Tua was a defenseless player (just released a pass) that was whip spiked into the turf. The NFL didn't really have a choice not to hold him to a different standard. It was an issue that reached further than everyone wants. They have to have special signoff to keep their weird employment/marketing arrangement legal.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

    16,058
    21,985
    113
    Sep 4, 2014
    From 1994 (when the cap started) until 2022, no QB making over 13.1% of their team’s cap won a SB. Mahomes was over that when they beat the Eagles at 17% and last year at 16%.

    Depending on how much the cap rises in 2025 he could be making 18+%, but that’s going by AAV. His actual cap hit will most likely be lower than the AAV hit. With the cap as it is now, Mahomes would be at 24% of the cap in 2025.

    This is why signing Tua now seems to be the better option. Extend him now and create much lower cap hits over the next 3 seasons.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,975
    4,906
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Yes and no. Most positions are benefitting and seeing big gains. He'll, even guards are starting to get paid. The big exception is RB, and that's both how fast they get used and tossed as well as salary. But outside of that, you don't hear much griping.
     
  22. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,508
    1,274
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    The NFL and mainly the media members such as ESPN who want to protect the NFL needed to make it about Tua and how the Dolphins handled it to distract from the leagues awful protocols and the general dangers of the sport.
     
    Two Tacos likes this.
  23. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    2,489
    2,976
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    Two of the most vocal were saying it in the thread that got created when they traded for Tyreek. There were many posts back and forth arguing Tua's arm strength in that thread. This was one of the comments - "I have never seen Tua throw the ball more than 50 yards in the air".

    One posted a tweet of a Broncos QB throwing a duck that only went a few yards:

     
  24. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,155
    5,885
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    That was one of the narratives. The NFL wants no conversations about concussions. ESPN wants ratings, but doesn't want to kill the cow. They're more conflicted as controversy sells, but they don't create the actual content, just the acrutrimon of the content.
     
  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,384
    11,415
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    It's not the volume as much as it is this......

    Purdy 39 attempts 15 1st downs
    Tua 34 attempts 5 1st downs

    The NFL is all about moving the chains on offense, you want a QB who can do that when plays break down. Purdy did this at an overwhelmingly better rate than Tua in 2023. I certainly agree the emphasis on last season was to keep Tua healthy, but you cant sacrifice crucial moments in a football game when there is only 17 of them out of fear.

    The good news is I believe the Dolphins recognize this, they seem to have Tua slimming down and one has to assume it's for this reason you see above. We need a guy who can keep drives alive.
     
    JJ_79 and djphinfan like this.
  26. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,384
    11,415
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    I'm a fan of the Miami Dolphins 1st and foremost. I'm also huge on accountability in my fandom and certainly in real life. We live in a world where too many people want to point a finger. This happened a lot as you know with Tannehill who moved on and showed that with the right surroundings, he could be a top 16 QB in the NFL, which I certainly never doubted.

    Tua is no different as far as I'm concerned, just because he is/was a significantly better passer than we have had since Dan, doesn't mean I need to get so excited I lose track of realty. The guy has some areas he needs to improve on before I hop on top of a hill ready to die for him.
     
    resnor likes this.
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Oh no doubt...just there was a time we didn't exactly see eye to eye with each other lol
     
  28. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,384
    11,415
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    O fcourse not....you were a raging Tannehil homer and I am the voice of reason! :pointlol:
     
    djphinfan and resnor like this.
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yeah I've learned not to back flawed QBs.
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,695
    68,991
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Tannehill was an easy one Tua not so much
     
    resnor likes this.
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yes and no... Tannehill was a guy who I thought had the physical tools that were worth trying to build around, even though he was flawed. Tua, imo, is more difficult to figure than Tannehill.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Also, by "back" I do NOT mean to support. I mean to like, crusade strongly for.
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  33. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,961
    3,991
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Tua is a PFWA George Halas Award finalist. We should all be glad to hear that. Please, for once and for the love all that's good and holy, let's not quibble over the word "succeed" in the description of the award's purpose.

    George Halas Award (NFL player, coach or staff member who overcomes the most adversity to succeed)

    QB Tua Tagovailoa, Miami Dolphins — Tagovailoa was placed in the NFL’s concussion protocol twice and limited him to 13 games in 2022. He briefly considered retirement in the offseason due to his injuries, but returned to the field to play in all 17 games in 2023. He led the NFL in passing yards with 4,624 and threw for 29 touchdowns and posted a passer rating of 101.1. He was named AFC Offensive Player of the Week for Week 1 after a 466-yard passing performance, and he also picked up AFC Offensive Player of the Month honors for September.

    https://www.profootballwriters.org/2024/05/16/2024-pfwa-off-field-award-finalists-announced/
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,695
    68,991
    113
    Dec 20, 2007



    Wolfe reports Tua has dropped 15 lbs to 220
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,462
    9,996
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Wow, he was at least 235? That's a bit much lol
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,695
    68,991
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Yeah like I said last year he had let himself go, even more than when he started camp at.
     
    resnor likes this.
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,695
    68,991
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I need to let go of the notion that Tua could emulate Brady or Kobe or that sort of metality

    He skipped todays it’s practice to play golf, it ****ing pisses me off so much but I have to let it go
     
    resnor likes this.
  38. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,063
    4,440
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    It's a golf game for charity, dude. It's not like he up and decided to skip OTA just to go golfing with his buddies.
     
  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,961
    3,991
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    In his terse response to being called out by Ryan Clark over his weight, Tua suggested he put on weight to avoid injury. I guess he did a cost-benefit analysis in the offseason and determined he's better at his natural playing weight.
     
    djphinfan and Silverphin like this.
  40. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,063
    4,440
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Yeah. It's almost as if he went one route last offseason and determined that it wasn't the best way to go about it (though he did avoid injury, so there's that).
     

Share This Page