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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No. I said I didn't like my QB throwing into those coverages. You said that other QBs do it, and Tua doesn't do it more than others, so I shouldn't be concerned about it.

    I then asked you for the proof of your claim, and you never gave it. I never, however, made any claim other than that I didn't want my qb throwing into those coverages.
     
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  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right, in that it was MORE about them than it was MORE about Tua.

    That in no way shape or form is me saying that Tua sucks. It's that I don't think he elevates the play of lesser receivers. Maybe I'm wrong. But I haven't seen him be Uber successful except when he has elite talent.

    You guys are making more my posts than I could ever have intended.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I couldn't care less what you question. I'll debate what I see as erroneous arguments, even if I might agree with the overall opinion of the poster. I have repeatedly stated that I think that Tua would at least have a decent NFL career, barring a significant injury. I've stated that Tua showed me enough last season to at least show me he's capable of runninh an offense that looks like it knows what it's doing and being successful in that offense. Then all the concussions happened. Another shortened season by Tua.

    So, my concern with Tua is his health. It doesn't matter how good he is if he's missing minimum 5 games a season. If Tua can get through this season without any major injuries, can't miss more than 3 games, and the offense likes good, then yeah, let's go all in in Tua. If he misses more than 3 games, we've got to start seriously looking to move on.
     
  4. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Just stop already.
     
  5. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Your main concern with Tua is his health. ?
    That's it ?
    If Tua stays healthy and succeeds you're good with that ?
    Where's the other resnor that says Tua is only as good as his elite receivers make him ?
    You don't want Tua in a Dolphins uniform, period.

    *At least show me he's capable of running an offense that knows what its doing. *
    Translation;
    " Thank God for Tuas receivers otherwise he's garbage".
    What kills me with the Tua haters (the ones that are actual Dolphins fans), is ,they love to discredit all his positives and are non-stop with the negatives , then claim " I still root for him to succeed"
    No, you don't. Just say so because it's foolish saying otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're crazy. I like you man, but you're crazy.
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    So what do you make of Hill having similar stats with Tua as with Mahomes? Do you think Mahomes elevates the level of play (and production) of his receivers? If there was no drop-off in Hill's production with Tua, how is that consistent with Tua not elevating a WR's play?

    Screen Shot 2023-04-25 at 7.29.35 PM.png

    And before you say "it's all Hill", keep in mind that the production of great WRs can drop precipitously when playing with mediocre QBs, like Moss with Collins. Moss was elite prior to going to Oakland and after leaving Oakland. Why did this not happen with Hill and Tua?
     
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  8. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    could be... could be.... could be..... not a single piece of supporting evidence to back up anything. Not a very convincing argument.

    Net result? Tua performed at a very high level, whether you want to admit it or not. It really doesn't matter how he does it. He excelled at the passes more than 5 yards down field and nobody else was close.
     
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  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I gave the evidence before and I'll give it again. Tua had a low INT %, and league leading efficiency that is not consistent with throwing into quadruple coverage more often than other QBs.
     
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  10. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I asked this question before and you didn't answer:

    If Tua were guaranteed to play 17 games per year for the next 10 years, would you want the Dolphins to sign him to a long extension and guarantee that he remains the starter?
     
  11. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Trent Sherfield says "hey!" He doubled his best previous yardage for a season and he had almost as many yards last season as his first 4 years combined.
     
  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Um....Ok.
     
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Look, here's the bottom line when it comes to this argument about Tua and receivers; that Tua's receivers made him look better than he really was...

    If it was just his receivers....if it was just Hill and Waddle and not so much Tua, then Bridgewater and Thompson would have had monster games, putting up all pro numbers and the Dolphins wouldn't have lost all of those games without Tua.

    Its called a TEAM for a reason...you have starters and back-ups. The starters are starters for a reason...the back-ups are back-ups for a reason. Tua is the starting quarterback because he is THAT good...Just like Hill and Waddle are the starting receivers because they are THAT good.
     
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  15. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt that having better receivers helps, but Hill/Waddle/Sherfield are just not that much better than Chase/Higgins/Boyd or Brown/Smith/Goedert.
     
  16. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Well…maybe I’m biased, but I’m not sure I agree. I always liked Hill, even when he was with the Chiefs. Lightening fast. The things I saw him do on the field was incredible so when we landed him, I was ecstatic!

    I knew Waddle was an incredible pick as well…although I’ll admit, I wanted to draft Chase. Waddle, although his rookie season was a success, it could have been much better if we had a better offensive scheme.

    This dynamic duo is lightening fast, but what makes them special is their disciplined route running and their ability to actually make the catch.

    As much as I liked Jakeem Grant, that fast kid had hands of stone. You gotta be able to make the catch. Hill and waddle are virtually automatic
     
  17. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I meant to say that the separation between Tua and the rest of the QBs on that chart is larger than the separation between the respective receivers, so Tua gets that credit.
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    that is not the evidence. You need to show how often he threw into triple/quadruple coverage, and then show what the NFL average is.

    This is not a difficult concept.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I've answered that numerous times. If Tua gets through this season missing three or fewer games, then we should go all out to retain him.

    Your refuse to answer my question.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You like to claim that we are denigrating Tua, but you have no issue denigrating the receivers? Hill/Waddle are one of the to duos in the game. Hill was one of the too receivers never coming to Miami.
     
  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    After you. You’re the one claiming he does it.

    When are you going to finally review and comment on the videos I linked?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2023
  22. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Already answered multiple times. Not my fault if you can’t understand it.
     
  23. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Denigrating because I acknowledge that there are other great receivers in the league?
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yep, that's it!
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oh I understand. I understand that you can't actually get the numbers that you are referring to, so you changed to int%. That is NOT the same thing. I understand his int% is low, however I watched him throw balls into multiply defenders and thought he was lucky to not have more ints.

    So, either give the ACTUAL numbers that you originally claimed, or stop claiming that Tua doesn't throw into those coverages more than others, and simply admit that it's your OPINION that he does not.

    Remember, this discussion came about because I said I didn't like my QB throwing into quadruple coverage, an opinion that I said I didn't think would be contentious, and you began arguing that Tua doesn't do that more often than any other QB.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Just give the actual stats that back up your claim. Show the numbers.

    If you can't, then stop trying to convince me that I should be OK with my QB throwing into triple/quadruple coverage.
     
  27. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How often in the NFL is a WR quadruple covered?
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not the point.

    I said that I didn't like my QB throwing into quadruple coverage.

    I was told Tua doesn't do it more than others so I shouldn't care. I asked for the stats, and was given int%.

    I just want the actual stats, or to be left alone on my quadruple coverage opinion.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Two QBs, exactly the same in every trait (physical/mental), one throws once a year into quadruple coverage, the other one z NEVER has.

    I'll take the one who never has, every time, over the guy who does it once a year.
     
  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. He doesn't. You like to use anecdotal evidence, so I'll supplement my facts with antecdotes, just like you. I watch Tua and other QBs I don't observe him throwing into coverage more often than other QBs. Now we have supplied exactly the same justification for our opinions.
     
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  31. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    How about if the one that throws in to quadruple coverage also throws 50 TD passes and the other QB throws 10????? Still taking the same guy? Are you starting to see how ridiculous your opinion is?
     
  32. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    It is the point and yours was ridiculous. Everyone can see that except you.
     
  33. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL must be an interesting way to go through life.....
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    At least now you're being honest.
     
  35. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But if you don't know the stats then why do you assume that Tua does it more frequently than other QBs?
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's like you didn't read my post.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I never stated he did it more than other QBs.

    That's my entire point. All I said was, I don't like my QB throwing into quadruple coverage. Finfan then went on a tear trying to convince me that my opinion, which I had already said was an opinion, was wrong.

    Do you like your QB throwing into quadruple coverage?
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah it's tough when people expect people to back up their claims.
     
  39. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In general terms I doubt anyone wants their QB to be throwing into quadruple coverage. Of course there are times when its necessary like a hail mary to the end of a game or half but those are the exceptions to the rule.

    But if we don't know how this relates to Tua (and it doesn't happen that often regardless of who the QB as teams rarely play quadrugle coverage at any level of football), why is this even being discussed?
     
  40. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to throw into quadruple coverage to throw ints. If you don't believe me just ask Josh Allen.
     
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