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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Wait....someone claimed Tua's success last year was based on his Wr's!? I mean, did they not notice how big the drop off was to Bridgewater? The same people thought that thought Bridgewater should start week 1 I'm guessing.

    The evidence couldn't be anymore obvious that Tua's deterrent is health and not much else.
     
    PickleRick likes this.
  2. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Yes. The jokesters claim Tuas numbers were highly influenced by his elite recievers and Tua deserves minimal credit for it.
    Those trolls were called out on their nonsense multiple times as their phoney posts were fooling no one.
    I agree, his ability to stay on the field is concern number one going forward.
     
    PickleRick likes this.
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    now that Tom Brady is becoming a part owner of the raiders, its not possible for him to play..

    hmm, I recall some heated arguments against Tua that he would be coming here if he fails or gets injured..

    lol..you'll never seen them here again.
     
  4. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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  5. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Florio will find a way
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    pretty balls Tua.
     
  7. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Weak. That ball floated like a duck for like 8 seconds.
     
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  8. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    And he clearly has lost his quick release, it took like a full second to get out of his hand.
     
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  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. His arm talent so special that he can throw it in slow motion.

    We now have video evidence that Tua can control time. How long before we are told this is only because he "must" control time.
     
  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    :sidelol:
     
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  12. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Damn, if Tua was "figured out" last year, then what the hell was Justin Herbert?
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Perception is reality. Herbert got in early and earned first-mover advantage. Same as Lamar Jackson, a consensus top-10 QB with durability issues whereas Tua is considered an injury-prone QB with top-10 numbers.
     
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You guys just don't get it. People do not look at datasheets and analytics to determine who they think is better. They look at how each QB plays and the skills they show on the field. Tua's skillset and style of play is just not nearly as impressive as Herbert's, and herbert actually plays whole seasons as upposed to Tua's part time status because of his fragility.

    And in terms of stats, Tuanoners just like to cherry pick some stats from last season. If you look at their entire careers Herbert has way more productivity, and still has a higher QBR than Tua.
     
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  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If you perform a t-test for 2 samples with unequal sample sizes on the set of passer ratings from Herbert and from Tua over their entire careers, there is no statistically significant difference. That means that the 1.2 career passer rating difference can be explained by random variation alone, i.e., there is no "real" difference from a pure statistical point of view.

    That's the result of statistical analysis with no cherry picking of any kind. I have no issue with that view, but I bet you do.

    When only talking about 2022, it's very clear from this thread alone that the cherry picking was being done primarily by you and other anti-Tua posters because you guys were persistently focusing on just a few games to the exclusion of the entire season.
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Also acting like Tua's injury history is remotely the same as other QBs injury history is ridiculous.

    And acting like last season isn't being used to gloss over the other two underwhelming seasons is disingenuous at best.
     
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  18. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    Much of the praise Herbert got his first few seasons had to do with his stats. His success was tied to record numbers to begin a career. At that time Tua was handcuffed by a coach who never believed in him. Marino had what many considered "the greatest single season of all time" based on records that stood for 25 years. So now Tua improved so much from year two to year three that he led the NFL in virtually every statistic for QBs. He was a serious top 3 MVP candidate for much of the season because of his #1 QBR. So yea the Tuanoners are going to cherry pick if that's what we want to call it. Herbert has gone backwards while Tua is shooting up the charts. This season will be even better barring injury.
     
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And acting like Tuas circumstances his first two years weren’t debilitating is also disingenuous.

    Context matters as in the guy had no right playing his rookie year
     
  20. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Tua's QBR was more than 10 points higher than Herbert's last season. For someone to mention Herbert's career QBR is a meaningful stat (even though it declined and Tua's increased) while suggesting that every quantifiable metric that supports how good Tua was last season is "cherry picking" is the textbook example of what cherry picking is. Forget the fact that Herbert played four more games than Tua but won one more game.

    Herbert is obviously an excellent QB. But to suggest that he's great in spite of quantifiable metrics because he passed the eye test in previous seasons is silly. Also - and this just might be hard for some to fathom - it's possible that perhaps BOTH of them are exceptional. Trying to tear one down to prop up the other is what people with agendas do.
     
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  21. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. They're both very good QBs with high ceilings imo. Tua will never pass some people's eye test no matter what he does or how good his stats are.
     
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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Yup. A lot of them made comments about him that they're afraid to take back now. We've all had bad takes; it's not disqualifying to admit it, regardless of how humbling it may be. But to go from "he sucks because he hasn't played well and will never play well" to "he sucks in spite of objective evidence that he's playing well" is the height of hypocrisy and it blows whatever cred they're trying to preserve.

    With that being said, I've made the mistake of believing that everybody on that side of the discussion is a troll. Some of them absolutely are not and proved it when Tua was playing well last season. There's nothing wrong with having one foot in and the other on the side of the pool, but to suggest that someone is awful when it's clearly not true is proof that some people just like to argue, regardless of how ignorant it makes them seem to be.
     
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  23. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Not many here have ever said Tua is "awful" or that "he sucks". What I and many others have said is that he is not great, and not better than Herbert.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
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  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    He was last season. But you didn't say it.
     
  25. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Yea, because Lamar Jackson is the poster child of reliability and availability
     
  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Great stats during one short season, mostly bult up against bad teams, does not equal a great QB, and Let's not forget Tua ended the season on a terrible note losing four straight games, including one against the chargers where Herbert completely outclassed him.
     
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  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    What do worse stats built up against a similar schedule indicate?

    Asking for a friend...

    Stop trying so hard and people will take your opinions seriously.
     
  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    See there you go again, trying to sneak in not giving Tua credit for his very good play against Buffalo: "terrible note losing 4 straight games". Dude, give the guy credit for playing well against good defenses. Tua played well twice against Buffalo.

    Oh, and the Bills, NE, Browns, Steelers all had year-end better passing defenses than LAC and GNB. So aside from Cinci and SFO, it's not like Tua was more likely to play worse against better defenses.

    And I'll keep saying this over and over, but statistically Herbert isn't a great QB yet either. Solid above average performance with no improvement over 3 years, nothing else so far, with one choker in the playoffs.
     
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  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    We have been through this. His response is going to be Buffalo was missing eight starters in the first game and that their defense is overrated anyway.
     
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  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Tua was far better last season than Herbert has been at any point in his career. It is not even close. The fact that last season was the first season that Tua had a reasonable coaching staff and supporting cast is no coincidence.
     
  31. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    The team lost those 4 games. Tua played very good against Buffalo and pre-concussion against GB. Are we using QB records now or only when they support an agenda?

    Tua - 21-13
    Herbert - 25-24
     
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  32. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Herbert 94
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  33. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    To all of the Tuanonners out there, I would like to pose a serious question. I am curious to read your opinions.

    Knowing Tua’s injury history going back to college and knowing his injury and concussion issues he’s had recently in the Pros, factoring all the moves and upgrades the team has made to other areas of the team this offseason, do you all find it odd that they didn’t really try to make any serious attempt to address the OL this off-season or in the draft? ..that we just signed some scrubs from other teams?
    I work with some Pats fans and they were laughing and were so glad we took Wynn off their hands and said how terrible he was.

    I know Grier couldn’t pick an OL to save his arse, but if they support Tua so much, why didn’t they make more of a concerned effort to find some better players? …draft or off season? I find it quite odd. Just want some opinions. Thx.
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I said this last offseason, but to me it looks like analytics plays a heavy role in the Dolphins FO. I had numerous posts last season saying that statistically speaking the most important position after QB on the offense is WR, and for defense the most important is DB and DE (i.e., passing game). Because of that, we should invest heavily in a top level WR next to Waddle instead of putting resources into OL.

    So what did they do? They went out and got Hill instead of doing what you can to fix a very bad OL with a QB who is fragile. That's not the kind of move you make IMO if you haven't been at least somewhat convinced by the analytics. Same this year. So I think that's what's going on: influence of analytics on decision making.

    Of course, at least on paper, this team is now quite solid at WR and DB. So next thing up is OL. Maybe we can do that next offseason. But after their moves last season it didn't surprise me what they did this offseason. Oh, and it's worth noting that analytics was right about how best to improve Tua's production last season: invest first in top-level WRs before top-level OL.
     
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  35. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand how it relates to Tua since this offensive line is a problem even if they had gone in a different direction. Are you suggesting they are sabotaging him or something?
     
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  36. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    ? It’s related to Tua because, well….he’s our starting QB, he’s had injury issues, no? He’s had some concussions, no? This is not a knock and Tua, so no need to get defensive. I am just posing a serious question.
    I find it odd. If you don’t, that’s fine, that’s your answer.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2023
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  37. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I just found it odd that you addressed it to "tuanonners" as well as "if they support Tua" so I wondered if there was some kind of other implication
     
  38. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks,
     
  39. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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    I identify as a Tuanoner who fully supports the Tua movement.
     
  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    No. There wasn’t. I am asking you all because it greatly relates to Tua and none of you all have yet seemed too concerned. I am.
     
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