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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    He has added to his beliefs in a recent post where he stated that EVERY STARTING QB can put up elite stats in the right environment. This is simply not true and is just another attempt to take credit away from Tua.
     
  2. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Explain this position given the fact that they had a bottom tier pass blocking OL, a below average running game, and poor production from the TE position in 2022. All of that is true and supported by the cries for improvements this off season in those exact positions by fans and NFL pundits.

    So please, explain how he had top tier talent around him. Are you talking about two players?
     
  3. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Serious question... are there two different people posting using your account?
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's not wrong.

    I understand the OL wasn't good. Can I not critically evaluate Tua's decisions when things break down? Again, the stats that are important are the ones that show how he does when things are not going well.
     
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's not fair to take the plays out of the first three quarters because those plays were part of the reason that we were down.

    Thanks for replying and showing that Tua had garbage stats for the majority of the game.
     
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    So don't take them out and just go with Tua had a fantastic game overall with a 124.1 rating. We were at that point 2 pages ago. Furthermore, it's not like Tua's first 3 quarters were more indicative of his overall play in 2022 given that he ended #1 in passer rating, so why care? I could see that argument having more merit if he played more like Q1-Q3 over the season, but that wasn't the case.

    btw.. here's another QB that had a similar game to Tua:
    Q1-Q3 rating 88.7
    Q4 rating 156.3
    Overall game rating 130.7
    This QB engineered a 4th quarter comeback overcoming a 17 point 4th quarter deficit.

    Who was this QB? Aaron Rodgers against Chicago in 2018. So Rodgers also had "garbage stats" for the majority of the game. So what?

    Without any cherry picking, why not note how encouraging this stat is:
    2020: 87.1 rating (rank: 26)
    2021: 90.1 rating (rank: 19)
    2022: 105.5 rating (rank: 1)

    It's amazing to see people constantly focus on every possible negative about Tua they can find (most ridiculous is arm strength when it's performance that matters) when you see improvement like that. We haven't had a QB with this kind of potential since Marino and you have posters focusing primarily on the negatives. I would too if year 3 ended up only slightly above average, but year 3 was fantastic!
     
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  7. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    But it is fine to take away the plays that led to the win.... seriously, what sense does that make?

    BTW, neither INT was returned for a score and neither resulted in a short field, and neither put the defense back on the field quickly. They were down primarily because the defense was terrible.


    Lol. 2 plays is the majority of the game. This is the problem with cherry picking. Anyone can do it to show whatever they want.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
  8. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Prove it.
     
  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    This guy is like me saying that I don't have a problem with Tua's height, then proceed to make dozens of negative mentions about his height along with comparisons to every tall QB in the league. When challenged ... "I already said I don't have a problem with his height!"....
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Tua downers have lost this debate big time.

    Just move on, or wait to see if he gets hurt or regresses..

    But dear baby Jesus y’all have been schooled in this thread..

    It’s obvious to me they don’t conceptualize how difficult it is to operate this particular offense at the level he did.. They don’t get what anticipation means or looks like at the nfl level, they don’t appreciate the fastest release in the game and what that means to protection, and they sure as **** don’t get what innate accuracy looks like or how to quantify it.

    What you’re left with is people who think they know how to evaluate the position that don’t have a clue.

    What they should be doing is appreciating the level of performance relative to being in his first year in this offense, relative to being 25, relative to the **** crap circumstances he had to deal with his first two years, relative to having a CRAP Oline.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2023
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  11. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention incredible footwork, pocket presence, and field vision.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Within the pocket he has nice presence, outside is when the lack of speed shows up.

    This is why the dual threat training he’s doing with his training team imo is crucial this year..

    My hope is for him to take a more aggressive approach to chaos in the pocket, less east and west and more aggressive head north and slide movements

    This way he is dictating the outcome instead of hesitation and being succumb to the defender.

    The great ones know how to do this and incorporate into their game.

    It’s my own personal question I would like solved, I have not see the mental acuity to understand how to do it yet and that’s my concern
     
  13. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I think it is just his mental clock that needs to be fixed. He needs to continue to first buy time outside the pocket, behind the LOS for a bit. If there is no pass available, get what you can on the ground then slide or get out of bounds. I don't want him turning into a slower Justin Fields or Lamar Jackson. I want him to play like Mahomes in that regard.
     
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  14. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Wake me up when the post gets answered.
     
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  15. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    That is one of those jokes based so much in reality that it wrote itself.
     
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  16. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-2023-nfl-season
     
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  17. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    There are a couple of ducks in this video.
     
  19. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn't see Holland or McKinley anywhere.
     
  20. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Tua should definitely be ahead of Dak, Cousins, and Hurts. On par with Lawrence, Herbert, and Jackson. Depending on the system, likely ahead of Jackson.

    Mahomes
    Burrow,
    Rodgers,
    Allen,
    Tua, Herbert, Lawrence,
    Hurts,
    Jackson,
    Wilson (I think he rebounds this year and could be higher),
    Dak, Cousins,
    Watson, Stafford. Goff, Carr, Tannehill,
    Geno Smith, Jones, Mayfield,

    rest don't matter
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not sure about "rest don't matter". I am VERY interested in seeing what Purdy does after his stellar performance last year. Also interested in Garoppolo who played well prior to injury. Both of those could end up being ranked pretty high, or not lol.

    Otherwise, Watson is a serious wild card. Among the new generation of QB (from 2017 let's say) he was the other clear-cut elite QB aside from Mahomes. Was last year just the result of all that distraction and layoff from football or was that a sign of things to come? Personally I think he'll rebound. It's hard to imagine a talent as impressive as Watson (elite stats even when the team went 4-12!) suddenly being done in for non-injury reasons.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    What do you mean 1/3 season of stats? Tua's #1 passer rating came after starting 13 out of 17 games, or 76% of the season. Why are you trying to unnecssarily diss Tua like that?

    Either way, I wouldn't put any credence into PFF's preseason QB rankings. Last year in the preseason they had ALL 3 of Mahomes, Allen and Burrow behind (get this..) Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford lol. I don't care who you are. That's a mistake in evaluation of epic proportions.
    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-quarterback-tiers-seth-galina

    Anyway, look on the web and you can find all kinds of rankings. Want Tua higher? Sure no problem. Pro Football Network has him at #6.
    https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-qb-power-rankings/

    None of these matter.
     
  24. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    ?? He’s correct. Many do not have Tua ranked high
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
  25. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Early cocktails. Cheers brother.
     
  26. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Nailed it
     
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol

    theres the issue with these haters, they're ****ing stoned and dont know how to evaluate the position lol
     
  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Is this English?

    Anyway, I'm not sure who here had Tua ranked right next to Mahomes. I personally said I'd be satisfied if Tua ended up top 7-ish statistically because that's where "elite" tends to begin. Ranked #6 is in that range.

    I still maintain though that none of these rankings matter.
     
  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Give me a break. I write better than most. I was rushing and didn’t have my reading glasses on. I just recently started needing them. Sucks. Ha! There is also the Crapple word sub. Ha!
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I think Purdy comes down to earth. No legit reason to think so, just a feeling. You are correct, Garoppolo should be added to the list.

    IMO, Watson was a bit overrated. I never thought he was top 3 - 4, but if he returns to form, I'd have to put him with Tua, Herbert, and Lawrence.

    My distinction between guys and that level and Hurts and Jackson is that they can do it with their arm in difficult situation. I don't think Jackson will ever be the guys that beats teams consistently throwing the ball. He is a guy that teams try to keep in the pocket and force him to throw. Hurts can still develop into the true dual threat QB (meaning he is just as dangerous throwing the ball as running it) and if he does, he moves up the list.
     
  31. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Rhetorical question? (LOL, I just asked that rhetorically)
     
  32. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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  33. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    https://sports.nbcsports.com/2023/05/24/2023-chris-simms-top-40-qb-countdown/
     
  34. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Strange that he has Gardner Minshew at 34, and (assuming) Jalen Hurts in the top-20 , considering he said last year there wouldn't be much of a drop-off if the Eagles were to sub Minshew in for Hurts.

    Then again, when you're a clown, I guess you have takes like that on the regular.
     
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  35. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    It's almost like rankings are wrong sometimes.
     
  36. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, like when he rated Jacob Eason over Jalen Hurts ahead of the 2020 draft.

    Rankings can be wrong, but the Minshew take was embarassing.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  38. Tuanon4Life

    Tuanon4Life Well-Known Member

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  39. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    This is Simms' "thing". He isn't relevant unless he is going at it with Dolphins fans on Twitter. It's obviously on purpose, you know to put him one spot behind Mac Jones. Smart by him because now his mentions and interactions go up.
     
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  40. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Chris Simms still taking L's on Tua is kind of impressive
     
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