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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. plc001

    plc001 Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to argue stats with you, but do you really think the .6% discrepancy in IAY is soley responsible for his 4.3% higher completion average? Seems lopsided, it may be part of the equation, but I think you're selling Tua short there. I think he's probably more accurate then most QBs.

    Not to say he shouldn't be replaced. I'm just not ready to claim he isn't as accurate as the numbers indicate.
     
    cbrad likes this.
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's a fair point. I should have said "helps explain" rather than "explain", and "partially captured in the stats". The correlations aren't high enough to make a firmer claim than to say it's part of the equation and that other factors not captured in those stats matter.
     
  3. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    Wrong. You seem to be lying as you go along.
     
  4. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    Yes..I agree. You're bad.
     
  5. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Like tua bad?
     
  6. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Kinda like you saying that the Chargers o-line wasnt ranked 32nd last year?
     
  7. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I keep noticing he will not respond to that?
     
  8. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how that works
     
  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.
  10. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a very logical statement, but it also has a pretty cringe-worthy spin. I don't think anyone besides a few very opinionated people here are saying Tua isn't good enough. But if this franchise could bring in Rodgers, Wilson or Watson, all proven, elite quarterbacks, that's not really a knock on Tua.

    Heck, we brought in Pennington after he was replaced by Brett Favre. What team got the short end of the stick on that deal? Almost nobody would have admitted that Pennington was the superior QB there, but statistically he clearly was that following season.
     
    OwesOwn614 likes this.
  12. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    An interesting and fair examination:
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
    brandon27, M1NDCRlME, KeyFin and 2 others like this.
  13. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    What was he 9-3 as a starter this year?
    Oh no. Hes eli manning.

    elevated play in 4th. Mostly turnover averse except for really stupid ones. Aided by big play defense. Held back by putrid offensive line. Accurate but not eye popping. Steady. Occasionally beats you with his legs. Hes Eli.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
    KeyFin likes this.
  14. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    You can say he was 8-4 or 8-5 pending on if you want to count the bills game he played two drives on. He’s not amazing by any stretch but you also had people here think gaskins was some world beater rb before we got duke and lindsay and they realized how trash he is. This team has very minimal talent on offense atm.
     
  15. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    Keeping it simple, Tua is definitely a big part of the problem.
    Time to move on.
     
  16. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Did you say that about tannehill? Because you were wrong.
     
  17. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    I believe this post is about Tua, not Tannehill.
     
  18. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter, you're still wrong. You can't make this call completely until he has a competent offensive line in front of him. Oh and a capable running back would help as well. Duke Johnson is not the answer, although he did play well for us at times.
     
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't want Duke to be the answer, however, I think he has proven enough to be an answer. Take over the Myles Gaskin role at least.
     
  20. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Tua haters when we lose: all on the qb. He should elevate the worst offensive line god has ever seen.

    when we win and he executes THE EXACT gameplan drawn up for him: its all checkdowns luck and defense. God that mac jones is a stud tho.
    Its laughable
     
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  21. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I just hate that people have turned this into a "pick a side" argument. It's not politics and I hate how everyone has to deal in absolutes these days. With that said, Tua has his flaws. He's good when our defense is playing well and making plays. He manages games for us and limits his mistakes, and you can be a playoff team with a quarterback like that. However, last week against the Titans tells a completely different story and shows the other side of the coin with him. His biggest issue to date is that he can't lead a come from behind win if he has to. When and if he ever does that, I think people will start to believe in him. For all the good Tannehill has done in Tennessee he still has never been the type of quarterback that can rally a team and bring them back from a deep deficit when their defense is playing bad. Tua has the same issue and with that said, I consider him to be in the same tier as a Ryan Tannehill. So far he's not a game breaker, he's a game manager and he'll be a good one once we get him an offensive line and a running back that can carry the ball 20 times a game if needed. The thing is, a lot of us (myself included) want him to be more than just a game manager. We've had game managers ever since Marino retired...Fiedler, Pennington, Tannehill, now Tua. I still say we don't win a damn thing until we have a franchise quarterback in place on this roster. For example, Green Bay is down 20 in a playoff game by halftime. They have Aaron Rodgers and I'm not turning that game off until it's over because he can bring a team back and win that game. Another example today....Steelers/Ravens....It's 4th and 8 in overtime. The game, season, and career of Ben Roethlisberger is on the line. He converts that 4th down, Steelers kick a field goal and are playoff bound. One can argue if Ben is a great QB or not. I think he's been great throughout his career. I think everyone knew he was going to convert that 4th down, broken down body and all, he was gonna get it done. Tua needs to get to that level and make those type of plays for me to have full faith in him. I think he'll get another year with the job, but next season his Miami career should officially be put in the pressure cooker and he better get it done.
     
  22. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I am not a big Tua fan, but Mac Jones is incredibly overrated. He can be a game manager on a well-constructed team, but he makes way too many boneheaded throws and IMHO he's the worst starting QB in the AFC East.
     
  23. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Here's the reality...

    Tua isn't very accurate on intermediate/deep throws. For the last three weeks he's thrown ducks left and right... His ability to read and process defenses looks slow too. The coaches are downright petrified of letting him throw outside the RPO. RPO is the only thing he's good at.

    Tua is the poor man Gardner Minshew. I'd trade Tua for Minshew straight up.
     
    Kud_II likes this.
  24. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The post you were quoting was about your history of QB evaluation. Since you gave an opinion about Tua supported by nothing but your say so.
     
  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Man, he was terrible today. Poor guy. I'm afraid he is done here. I would be shocked if he is our QB next year.
     
  26. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Lol what? Tannehole sucks, in the sense that average sucks of course. Tannehill, Tua, and Mac Jones, are all in the same league of QB. If you're happy with average good for you. I'm not. I will be hunting that top 1-5 QB year in and out. I will not be satisfied until we find that guy. If Tua can become that guy some how, great. But based on my evaluation I've seen nothing that suggest he will reach above #12 in a damned scheme that literally shrinks the playbook down to maybe a few sheets designed specifically to highlight what he does well, and mask what he does poor.

    #12/basic b**ch playbook is good for a lot of posters on this board. Don't dog on those of us who aren't thrilled with mediocrity.

    Sadly, in one way, Tua does belong... Because for over 2 decades now the Phins season performance has been 1/3 mediocre, bad, or awful. Tua's body of work as a pro mirrors the Phins performance for 20 years. It's uncanny, remarkable even. Almost like the universe is making a bad joke, but some of you laughing along like hyenas as if you're in on it.
     
  27. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    It would not surprise me either way. I could very see us keeping Tua in hopes that he catches fire in year three or I could see us swinging for the fence and going after Watson. We won't win anything until we get a franchise quarterback in here.
     
  28. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    There is no point in arguing this. Everyone is dug in like its life and death especially when there’s nonsensical **** like GIVE ME GARDENER MINSHEW

    i roll with a kid 14-7 at 23 years old and use the teams ample draft and cap resources to address its needs that are situated way below its supposed league average QB. Your mileage may vary.
     
  29. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Easy, you're gonna ruffle some feathers
     
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  30. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Yep, trade Tua straight up for Gardner Minshew. That's where we're at. Good stuff, right?
     
  31. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Mine are already ruffled, Tua fanboys dogging on Duke Johnson in the other thread. ThePhins has become a damned circus. Can we just stitch them all together and give them an act in the show already?
     
  32. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Believe me, I'm not happy to say it. But seriously, Minshew is a better QB. I'm not saying it with venom or animosity. I was a Tua supporter going into this season. I felt confident he would succeed. I was wrong. And I wanted to be wrong, about being wrong. After 7 straight wins, I was praying he would deliver two big performances and become the QB we drafted at 5 and take a step toward a transcendent QB. He didn't. Because he isn't. Pound for pound, I think Minshew is better.

    Size: Minshew
    Arm Strength: Minshew
    Accuracy: Tua?
    Mobility: Minshew
    Reads: Minshew
    Pocket presence: Push
    Leadership: Maybe Tua, but idk... Minshew's teammates adore him.

    Stats:
    TD/INT: Minshew (41/12 to 26/15)
    QB rating: Minshew (93.9 to 88.6)
    YPA: Minshew (7.0 to 6.6)
    AY/A: Minshew (7.3 to 6.4)
    YPG: Minshew (221 to 198)

    I could go on... Pick a stat. Any stat. Odds are, Minshew is better. And he's done it mostly with hopeless Jacksonville. He makes more plays and less mistakes.
     
  33. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    I’d rather have Minshew too. Tua made a couple plays today but was not good for a 3rd straight week
     
    Clark Kent likes this.
  34. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Its a shame Justin Herbert has a worse winning percentage than Tua with a better team and offense. He must be a bust.
     
  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Herbert carries his team. Tua's defense carries him. See the difference? Of course not... It doesn't fit the narrative. Tua was suppose to be the chosen one. Tank for Tua... The next Drew Brees... The next transcendent QB... He's none of those things, yet you can't accept it. Did you see Herbert fight tonight? Fought through hit, after hit, after hit. Did you watch him persevere through 4th down and 10 after 4th down and 10? Reminds me of Marino, having a swiss cheese defense, and he either delivers an other worldly performances, or is blamed for not being able to win big games... Better team? Better offense, sure... but not a better team. His defense is as bad as our offense. Difference is, the QB is the most important player on the field and ours can't complete 7 yard outs without driving the ball into the ground... Can't throw 10+ yards over the middle of the field without it becoming a duck. All the while Herbert balls like a warrior. As long as he's the QB, his team has a chance. As long as Tua is our QB, everything else better be perfect. The moon, sun, and the stars must align or else he's the reason we're going to lose against any team remotely good

    It's funny, Tua apologists whine and whine about Herbert comparisons. Whine and whine that his name is ever brought up... Yet, the moment you see Herbert struggle or fail to achieve something that Tua has never and will never achieve, you love to bring him up. Point out his short comings, as if Tua could ever have done what Herbert did tonight to bring his team back, again and again, despite the loss. You're all so desperate for Tua to be something that he's not and will never be, you twist stats, narratives, blame everyone else, etc... Nothing but a bunch of Gollum's screeching about your precious!

    Sad. Grim. Pathetic.

    Tua aint it. Deal with it. Get ready for the Watson era. Like it or not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  36. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    If you watched the Chargers game last night and can't see that Herbert is light years better than tua then you are blind. He looked like Marino out there last night. He drove his team 85 yards with 2 minutes left in the 4th to the tying touchdown. He converted 3 4th and 10s in that drive as well. It doesnt matter if the Chargers lost or won he still looked like franchise a QB. Any Tua groupie that watched that game last night, knows that but is too ashamed to admit how wrong they are about tua.
     
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  37. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I watched so many games like that with Marino as the defence would.let him down in the end
    Anybody who thinks we made the right choice drafting Tua over Herbert is delusional or has no clue about football.Some.of those throws he made with pressure in his face Tua is not capable of making because of his lack of arm strength.
    I truly feel Tua is either done in Miami or he will be backing up Watson next year
     
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  38. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    The tua fans here will never admit that he's not the answer. They are also the same ones, once he's traded, that will say that he's a bum
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  39. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry. He never admits when he's wrong. It's his MO.
     
  40. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Glad you all took the Herbert bait without seeing the irony of the logic you use being used against you. Predictable.

    The fact you guys will go all in to kiss the *** of a guy that assaulted 22 women says a lot, and none of it good, about you.

    If they trade fir watson im done with this team til ross is pushing up dasies. Im not gonna have to explain to my kid why the QB of the team i live is a rapist. My soul is worth something to me.

    If its nit Tua, fine… but that absolute piece of ****? No. And how many of you are EXCITED for him is disgusting.
     

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