Tua is not the Problem

"Silverphin wrote:

Yeah. Not bad for someone who was too soft to be in this league.

Remember when we all raved about Ronnie Brownrunning over some Raider's DB? No one cared that he didn't run over Ray Lewis.

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"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

If Covid protocols have shown us anything and it should be perfectly obvious to any layman, the need to build a complete TEAM rather than putting all of the focus on quarterback is more important than anything.

Look at the number of incomplete teams with focus on the quarterback versus complete teams whose focus is on every position who’s been affected by losing their starting quarterback due to Covid protocols.

Teams that have been able to control the line of scrimmage, effectively run the ball, protect the quarterback, defend against the opponents run and pass have not been adversely affected by the loss of their starting quarterback as much as those who have tossed all their eggs in one basket and rely strictly on their star quarterback.

Let’s hop in the way back machine for a moment. The 1971 Miami Dolphins; they steam roll through the ‘71 season, establishing themselves as the dominant team in the AFC, propelling Shula to his 2nd Super Bowl…the first coach to appear in 2 Super Bowls with 2 different teams. They lost that game to the Cowboys ending their Cinderella run…or did it? Come 1972, the season of all seasons, the Dolphins yet again begin their steam roll and then tragedy strikes. Griese gets carted off the field with a broken leg during week 6. The run is over…or is it? In comes Earl Morrell, Shula’s longtime back up to Johnny Unitis in Baltimore and the steam rolling continues, culminating in the perfect season. The bottom line point? The TEAM was a complete team and didn’t rely solely on the starting quarterback.

“Oh fresh, TDK, you’re so old…football is different now than it was then…the game has changed. You don’t know what you’re talking g about”.

Ok, how about some recent history then? How about the 2017 Philadelphia Eagles? After steam rolling the NFC with an 11-2 record, the Eagles lose Carson Wentz with a torn ACL during the week 14 match up against the Rams. Season over. Beat they can hope for now is 11-5 and limp into the playoffs. Think again. In comes Nick Foles and the rest of the Eagles season is history, toppling the Patriots to win the Super Bowl.

Carson Wentz? Garbage. Nick Foles? Garbage. What have they done since? Exactly but with that complete TEAM, they achieved greatness.

I don’t put all my focus on the quarterback. Quite stupid to do so. I put my focus on the entire team which includes the quarterback. Is Tua going to be an NFL stat record breaking Hall of Famer that’s going to go down in infamy as one of the game’s greatest quarterbacks ever? Probably not but he doesn’t need to be, does he?

I can recall a lesser Manning brother being the owner of 2 Super Bowl championships before his greater record breaking big brother ever won his first.

If you’re looking for Tua to be Peyton…or wanting to put all your eggs in one basket with a Peyton with year after year of oh so close but not quite there, you’re foolish. I’d rather have an Eli with a complete team and a better chance of winning the Super Bowl year after year.

To sum it all up, Tua may not be your lightening in a bottle high flying throwing quarterback that’s going to make the cover of Madden, but he sure as hell is a damned good quarterback and is NOT the yolk around this team’s neck keeping us from achieving greatness either.

Uh thanks for the history lesson on my favorite NFL team? lol. During my generation, they've been the damned cleveland browns. Or Miami Lolphins. I started getting serious about being a fan towards the end of Dan's career, which actually sucks and may have made me a little more pessimistic.

I know all about Fins history. I've watched our Superbowls my dad has them on DVDs. I'm not sure why you drifted so far into the history lesson you were giving me you forgot about the topic at hand.

Anyway... Raise your hand if you'd trade Tua for Wentz straight up *raises hand slowly*

For the record I try to be more of a realist than a pessimist, sometimes i may slip but I'm rooting for the team so to me there's no sense in being a total pessimist. I mean I still harp on Tua over Herbert sometimes lol, but that's possibly a definining decision for who knows how many years, just like Culpepper over Brees yo. Aaron Rodgers went right passed us and a lot of other teams in the 1st round.. Tbe only thing that sucks about this miracle run we're on is that it may save some people's job's like Chris Grier who I'd prefer not be in the draft room in 2022.

"Tua is not the problem =/= Tua is the problem."

I've been trying to more accurately title this thread.

It's not that he's terrible, it's that he's not good enough and the areas he's lacking are mostly genetic hard to fix. It doesn't help that he smash his damn hip.. which is critical in putting that velocity on the ball in long balls to swing that hip.

I don't hate Tua just cause I wish we had picked Herbert. It's not his fault and he's a good kid who makes plenty of positive plays. Too many mistakes, especially recently on the run. We've been carried and mostly not by Tua in some of these.

Last week we were carried by Duke Johnson brought up out of no where, nice job on the evaluation there coaching staff, they figured out in week 15 that Gaskin and Ahmed were not starting caliber backs even behind this generally bad OL, Duke made them look good.

Now before anyone gets excited, the Jets have a notoriously bad run D. And our shit coaching staff took forever to bring Duke up, he would have been servicable even if he wasnt running for over 100 a game +TD. Cant get worse than what we were doing at RB before DUKKKKKKKKKE, and I call that a coaching staff blunder. Unless DUUUUKE proves to be a one shot wonder, which would suck, but im prepared for it.

"canesz06 wrote:

Again, I was kidding. I know no one said he's comparable to Marino. That would be true derangement.... Although, there could be one special person on here (he knows who he is) that secretly thinks that as he pleasures himself to his tua poster. And you're right. If we all thought the same, what a boring place this forum would be

his release is every bit as fast as Marino’s :)

"djphinfan wrote:

his release is every bit as fast as Marino’s :)

You stop that right now

"djphinfan wrote:

his release is every bit as fast as Marino’s :)

No one’s release is or ever was as fast as Marino’s. I don’t care what anyone says, tries to demonstrate, etc. That ball would go from Marino’s side, being held like a lunchbox to ***GONE*** in the blink of an eye.

"Kud_II wrote:

Anyway... Raise your hand if you'd trade Tua for Wentz straight up *raises hand slowly*

Nope, and without hesitation I would take Tua.

Wentz is more expensive, has as much injury riskand plays behind an excellent line with a top tier RB to bail him out. IMO he's also not all that trustworthy. He will flash but also make wtf plays. He's playing in an ideal situation for him and good for him on resurrecting his career, but no way I make that trade.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Nope, and without hesitation I would take Tua.

Wentz is more expensive, has as much injury riskand plays behind an excellent line with a top tier RB to bail him out. IMO he's also not all that trustworthy. He will flash but also make wtf plays. He's playing in an ideal situation for him and good for him on resurrecting his career, but no way I make that trade.

Wentz has the ceiling potential that I'm looking for. Tua's ceiling for me is settled at average until he proves otherwise. We can all blame the OL til we're blue in the face, but I've seen him with time, a wide open lane of vision on too many ocassions where he throws a ball meant to hit receiver in stride land 5-10 yards short; In which case, receiver has to adjust and make circus catch, which we've already pretty much seen from all our top skill players. Or, worst case, he's inaccurate and off target, receiver has no chance, but the DBs we face certainly do and prove it fairly consistently.

Currently as you say Wentz is not Head-n-shoulders above Tua, but he has potential to go further, much like with Herbert, the higher ceiling is apparent to anyone without Aqua shades bruh. Jmo. I truly hope Tua proves all my doubts wrong, he will likely have at least another year to prove himself. So Tua fans shouldn't be tooooo butthurt about the fair criticisms, since ya boi will have a chance to improve.

And TUA has already improved in a lot of areas that I could go in depth on, and will happily if it will assuage you Tua Fan boys that I'm not a hater of TUA. He's a great kid with a great heart, and surprisingly good poise for such a young fella esp with all the doubt from fans and FO alike, he's handled it pretty well, well at least up until the last few games. He made a few good throws but otherwise, I've been underwhelmed.

TUA performs against NO, and is a primary reason for that (hopeful) WIN, I will loosen my 'jack boot on his throat' a bit, as seems to be the perception here.

But let us not forget. DUUUUUUUUKE JOHNSON saved our season. I am pretty sure we lose that game without his highly impressive performance, total momentum change in the second half, the Dolphins looked dead in the water until towards the end of the second quarter or so...

I wish I saw more DUUUUKE threads, because he can stay healthy, he has the tools to revitalize his career in MIami, and MAYBE even be RB1 next year. I think it's a given he will be RB 1 the rest of this year, unless he has a major (MAJOR) drop off in performance, because Gaskin and Ahmed just aint coming close to 'cutting it.'

As far as I'm concerned our season ended last week. Franchise QBs dont let their season end to a 3-10 Jets. They had 2 weeks to prepare for a shit team, and because no Waddle, they had absolutely no answer.

Our defense kept us in the game, until Duuuke showed up and gave us the spark we normally woulda been getting from J-Wad. If anything, Tua did his damndest to end our season last week.

I don't need another long-term mediocre non-clutch Tannehill. I don't want to be holdng on that long again unless we see some real strides, primarily in Tua's ability to stretch the field, and NOT have to rely totally on the RPO scheme.

Carson Wentz ?
Carson Wentz sucks ass.

"Kud_II wrote:

Currently as you say Wentz is not Head-n-shoulders above Tua, but he has potential to go further, much like with Herbert, the higher ceiling is apparent to anyone without Aqua shades bruh. Jmo. I truly hope Tua proves all my doubts wrong, he will likely have at least another year to prove himself. So Tua fans shouldn't be tooooo butthurt about the fair criticisms, since ya boi will have a chance to improve.

Wentz is 5 years older. The fact that he isn't head and shoulders above Tua says it all.

"Vinny Fins wrote:

Carson Wentz ?
Carson Wentz sucks ***.

You're missing the subtext of this conversation. The folks who brought his name into the conversation didn't do it as a favorable comparison to #1.

As previously stated, this kid could walk across water to save a sinking canoe full of drowning orphans and the first thing he'd be confronted with upon his return to shore would be a chorus of Dolphins fans asking him why he can't swim.

"Justin Herbert can swim," they'd all remind him.

LOL, I can't with the Tua-haters anymore, Carson fucking Wentz, are you kidding me??

Lets look at it this way, present day:

guys you would clearly take over tua, guys tua is on par with, guys tua is better than. Again this is current season and forward only, cap implocations age and all that.

Guys better than tua:
Allen, Murray, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Herbert,

guys on par with tua: carr cousins Prescott Wilson Stafford Tannehill Ryan

Guys Tua is better than: newton, wilson, jones (m), jones (d), goff, fields, mayfield, Bridgewater, Roethlisberger, hieneke, Wentz, lawrence, Hill, Garopolo, whatever is starting in houston.

Guess what? That puts him year to year 8th-15th. You run with that.

"Vinny Fins wrote:

Lets look at it this way, present day:

guys you would clearly take over tua, guys tua is on par with, guys tua is better than. Again this is current season and forward only, cap implocations age and all that.

Guys better than tua:
Allen, Murray, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Herbert,

guys on par with tua: carr cousins Prescott Wilson Stafford Tannehill Ryan

Guys Tua is better than: newton, wilson, jones (m), jones (d), goff, fields, mayfield, Bridgewater, Roethlisberger, hieneke, Wentz, lawrence, Hill, Garopolo, whatever is starting in houston.

Guess what? That puts him year to year 8th-15th. You run with that.

Is Lamar Jackson a better quarterback than Tua?

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Is Lamar Jackson a better quarterback than Tua?

I mean, he has an MVP

"Vinny Fins wrote:

I mean, he has an MVP

It looks like defenses have him figured out, and as a passer he’s been a little less than average. Maybe he can come back, but until he shows he can regularly beat cover zero he isn’t in the top drawer of NFL QBs.

"Vinny Fins wrote:

Lets look at it this way, present day:

guys you would clearly take over tua, guys tua is on par with, guys tua is better than. Again this is current season and forward only, cap implocations age and all that.

Guys better than tua:
Allen, Murray, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Herbert,

guys on par with tua: carr cousins Prescott Wilson Stafford Tannehill Ryan

Guys Tua is better than: newton, wilson, jones (m), jones (d), goff, fields, mayfield, Bridgewater, Roethlisberger, hieneke, Wentz, lawrence, Hill, Garopolo, whatever is starting in houston.

Guess what? That puts him year to year 8th-15th. You run with that.

The guys that you said Tua is on par with are all better than tua

I think the reality is there are 4-5 “elite” QB’s in the NFL that are head and shoulders above the rest. They can absolutely carry a team and are the X factor to win a super bowl in the playoffs. Then it’s a competition to see who’s in that next tier of QB. I have concerns about relying on Tuas health but I think he’s shown he can at the very least be an average level(tier 3) QB but probably could be that tier 2 type of QB with a better OL and run game.

IMO, tier 1: Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson and maybe Allen
Tier 2: Murray, Herbert, Stafford, Burrow

We can get into a debate about whether we should have taken Herbert at #5 or what that pick should be. But I think when you start looking at all the QB’s that were taken there or higher that haven’t panned out, I’m not going to complain about what Tua is doing.

"Kud_II wrote:

W

As far as I'm concerned our season ended last week. Franchise QBs dont let their season end to a 3-10 Jets. They had 2 weeks to prepare for a **** team, and because no Waddle, they had absolutely no answer.

Yeah they lose to the Texans instead

The Deshaun Watson-less Texans now have as many wins as the Watson led Texans from last year.

Waiting for the Watson lovers to spin that.

"Rouk wrote:

The Deshaun Watson-less Texans now have as many wins as the Watson led Texans from last year.

Waiting for the Watson lovers to spin that.

Mills has been just fine.
86.2 QBR and most 300 passing yard games among all rookie QBs.

Considering the disaster he is working with in Houston and considering everyone laughed at them for picking him in the 3rd round.

In Comparison ;
Mac Jones - 90.2 (probably inflated, only one on a good team)
Justin Fields - 73.2
Trevor Lawrence - 70.6
Zach Wilson -67.9

"Pennington's Limp Arm wrote:

Mills has been just fine.
86.2 QBR and most 300 passing yard games among all rookie QBs.

Considering the disaster he is working with in Houston and considering everyone laughed at them for picking him in the 3rd round.

In Comparison ;
Mac Jones - 90.2 (probably inflated, only one on a good team)
Justin Fields - 73.2
Trevor Lawrence - 70.6
Zach Wilson -67.9

So what you are saying is that Miami needs to trade 3 first round picks for Mills

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

So what you are saying is that Miami needs to trade 3 first round picks for Mills

At the very least I’m implying we dodged a bullet!!!
A LOT of people wanted to stay at 3 and select one of these QBs.

Meanwhile there is a strong argument that both Tua (and Davis Mills) are better than all of them. Plus we got Waddle.

"Rouk wrote:

The Deshaun Watson-less Texans now have as many wins as the Watson led Texans from last year.

Waiting for the Watson lovers to spin that.

So are you saying that Watson isn't a better QB than tua? If not for his legal issues, can you honestly say that any team, if they had the option, would take tua over Watson?