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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Durable? He missed an entire season
     
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  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah he did. He was still extremely durable. You're gonna argue now that he wasn't?

    GTFO. This place is getting tiresome.
     
  3. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    It's sad the bar is set so low.All I here is the cardinal game.Big deal.He threw for 248 yds and 2 tds and ran one in.How many starting Qbs in the league haven't had a game like that more than once in the last 2 years?
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Ignore reality to make your point
     
  5. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never been a RTH fan/supporter but he didn’t miss a game his first four seasons. Much like now, our OL was bad and he got killed. Those hits, knockdowns and sacks catch up to every QB.

    That’s why I don’t trust Grier. IF you’re going to draft an injury prone QB, you better build a wall up front. Grier has proven he’s not the man to do it.
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He didn't. Then he missed an entire season.

    I blame Flores more than Grier for the line. That coaching staff was embarrassing for the line.

    Also Grier did hire Allen who has a good reputation for finding linemen.
     
  7. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Sooner or later a QB is going to break down if they keep taking hits like that. It was a minor miracle Tannehill survived that long.
     
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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I can't call a player who missed an entire season due to injury durable. Especially after reinjuring it with no contact
     
  9. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    So you actually think Tannehill is not durable, that’s like one of his strongest traits imo.
     
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  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    You would have trouble finding too many QBs who you could call durable then.
     
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  11. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Outside of Laremy Tunsil, who has Grier drafted that’s panned out? This was a problem before Flores arrived.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    His strongest traits are his arm and accuracy.

    Imo durable players don't miss the entire season
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There's no official "injury" stat from the NFL for whether a starting QB should have started a game or not, but Football Outsiders tracks whether a QB should have started and didn't due to injury, and their average is 84% availability for starting QBs.

    Tannehill missed 24 games to injury and started 133 games, so his availability is 133/(133+24) = 84.7% so basically average. Contrary to perception it's similar for Tua: 23/(23+5) = 82.1% though this is obviously a much smaller sample size so not as reliable.

    Anyway, Tannehill is about average in terms of durability if you go by games missed due to injury.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I wouldn't.
     
  15. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I said „one“, not the first time you’ve been doing this to me… I don’t think there is many QB‘s out there, who shrug of hits like RT does he’s one tough sob. But you seem to differ…
     
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  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think any qb who takes hits is tough. I will never say a NFL qb isn't tough
     
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  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  18. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    IF this story is true, doesn’t fit the narrative that Flo wanted Tua. There’s been reports that he wanted Herbert. Now maybe he sighed off on Tua or maybe Grier said were going to take Tua and Flo went along. So hard to know what to believe in this rumor storm.

    What I do know is HC’s know their tenure is likely going to be defined by QB play and it sounds like he didn’t believe in Tua. I can’t blame him for wanting to remedy the situation if Tua wasn’t his first choice and he felt limited by what this team can do with him as our QB.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I don't care if this story is true or false...because it doesn't matter. The only part of that story that would matter is if Flores intentionally started linemen and receivers that weren't ready to make Tua look bad. And if that's true, that's good news in a sick, twisted way since it means that Tua should have a better season next year.

    Now, from my personal eye-test, that story bears some truth. Parker wasn't open a single time this season. Gisecki was getting very little separation. Wilson and Grant got open frequently, but one was benched and the other was traded. That left Waddle to catch everything and yeah, he was open early and often.

    For the line, I don't think I have to go there...it was historically bad. Possibly the worst starting five for this decade across the NFL. So we can put a check in that box as well. No receivers. No linemen. Just Tua, Waddle and a couple of average backup NFL backs.

    But here's the thing- Flores is gone. Tua is here. Only one name matters to us moving forward and that's Tua. Everything else is just gossip and again, I don't care if this was true of false. True means Flores meant to sabotage Tua, false means he sabotaged Tua through incompetence. Either way, it's the same story...we had 8 people on offense that couldn't contribute.

    What matters is how we address those 8 positions next year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The reality is that Tannehill was extremely durable.
     
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  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oh, and EXTREMELY disingenuous of you to not mention that he was injured on a dirty hit.
     
  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Flo gave up on players quicker than any coach I've seen. We gave up on Flowers, Van Noy and Lawson after one season each and he signed off on bringing them in. For a coach known to inspire confidence from his players, he felt no compulsion to reciprocate loyalty to them. I can easily believe he signed off on Tua but once he saw that Tua wasn't a guy who worked out all six days between games, he decided he didn't want him. Flo knows that his Uncle Bill's success was mostly because he latched onto the GOAT and none of his contemporaries (Eric Mangini, Charlie Weiss, Romeo Crennel, etc.) got away with the a**hole in a hoodie shtick without a stud QB. Only O'Brien had a decent tenure (with Watson) until his Belichickness finally rubbed his best players the wrong way.

    I believe Flo signed off on Tua and I believe he gave up on him almost immediately because he's that guy.
     
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  23. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The ONLY thing that Tannehill did to bug me was decide to rehab his knee instead of getting surgery for it with a full offseason for rehab. I was watching every hit he took the next season, expecting him to reinjure it. Of course, it took Calais Campbell to hit him low to make it happen.
     
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  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  25. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    This sort of thing is just pointless. Comparing one of the leagues worst situations with one of the better ones, of course there's a difference. Not that Ben is one of the best QB's, some Steelers fans would have liked to have seen a change done sooner, but this is just pointing out a stable QB situation to a an unstable one.
     
  26. Dolfanalyst

    Dolfanalyst Active Member

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    I think the better question is whether somebody within the organization sabotaged (unintentionally) Brian Flores's development as a head coach. When you consider the level at which the offense was playing with Fitzpatrick in 2020, coupled with what the defense was doing at the time, the team would've been projected to make the playoffs and possibly even win a playoff game. Of course there was no guarantee of that because Fitzpatrick's history is inconsistent with sustaining that level of play, but if it would've happened it would've changed the trajectory of Flores's reputation and career considerably -- making the playoffs in only year two of a complete team rebuild, with a journeyman QB. That's quite a feat.

    The question is, was he on board with forsaking that for the insertion of a rookie QB and the inevitable decrease in performance in the most important aspect of the game (pass offense), or did somebody force his hand on that? If somebody indeed forced his hand on that, I don't imagine he took too kindly to having his career potentially derailed in that way. As it was the team surmounted the decrease in performance of the pass offense with unlikely and largely non-replicable defensive and special teams plays, but they would've been considerably better by continuing with Fitzpatrick if he would've sustained his level of performance.
     
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  27. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Tom Brady missed an entire season too. Guess he's injury prone?
     
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  28. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Not concerning to you that a QB with limited size and arm strength would not be a harder worker?
     
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  29. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Or he didn’t want Tua to begin with and didn’t want his career as a coach limited by his QB. I can’t blame him for that.
     
  30. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    If you really look at their schedule last year its hard to come up with how they get the +1 win. They probably beat Denver but probably lose to Arizona because that is the best Tua has ever played.

    I think it depends on whether you believe the stories of the past week. If you do then Tua going in was all Flores.
     
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  31. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Member

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    Flores tried to make Tua work. Otherwise, he would have kep Gailey. Wouldn't have hired Frye. Wouldn't have built entire new RPO scheme.

    Flo sees Tua every day in practice, not just on Sundays. He wanted to pull the plug. He didn't see the talent level. We'll see who was right, but if I had to guess, it's not going to be the organization that hasn't won in the playoffs in 20+ years.
     
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  32. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Trying to make it work doesn't mean he did a good job making it work
     
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  33. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Member

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    Wait until the team goes backwards next season. It'll be pretty clear he did the best with what he was given.
     
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  34. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’ll give a first time HC a little slack while he’s learning on the job. I won’t give the GM who selected him any slack. Especially, when that GM isn’t smart enough to build a good OL to protect the fragile QB he selected in the first place.
     
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  35. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    No slack for 4 offensive coordinators in 3 years. Which was certainly going to become 5 in 4. Repeat that for offensive line coaches.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Two of those offensive line coaches are well respected.
     
  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ...and one of them brings coke and hookers to work with him.
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That was Gase
     
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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