Tua is not the Problem

****Whew!!!****

It's gonna be a loooooonnnnnggggg offseason. Buckle in, folks.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

First, we didn't have a chance to get Burrow, so our discussion about missing out on him is moot. Second, if throwing short quick passes was simple, then Ian Book wouldn't have spent the last week in therapy. There are a gaggle of bottom tier QBs and hot seat coaches who have somehow not figured out that throwing the passes Tua completes is a way to effectively manage a game apparently. Wonder why that is? Oh, because it's not easy as you pretend it is. The funny thing is that Tua only does it because he has to move out of his pocket immediately on 90% of his passes. If he had time to set up, he could go downfield. And when I say Tua has a better win percentage, it means that Tua has won more games than they have. I guess I should have explained it better.

Again, I refuse to smear Burrow, Herbert or Watson in order to prop up Tua. Find any time when I did that if you can. But in order to make your case, you constantly find intangible points to express it because you can't objectively do so. That does not go unseen during our discussion. It comes down to "I want to replace the QB because I do", which is cool. But don't mind if I have a different opinion.

I don't mind if you have a different opinion. The world would be a boring place if we all thought alike

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

****Whew!!!****

It's gonna be a loooooonnnnnggggg offseason. Buckle in, folks.

Over/Under on how many more years till we win a SB? lol.. Lots more such offseasons in the future!

"canesz06 wrote:

I don't mind if you have a different opinion. The world would be a boring place if we all thought alike

Once again, you're way off base.

Okay, I was just kidding. I dig that we're all fans for some emotional reason, but it doesn't mean we can't be respectful when folks do their fanning differently. Personally, it's too easy to ignore people that I don't like, so when I kick up dust, it's just because it's my thing. Can't really expect to be the only one allowed to be dug in on a point of contention.

Looking at his stats over the season he is all over the map. He had a 4-5 game stretch where I was starting to believe IF he could stay healthy and the last 3 games have been a reality check.

We need to fix this OL and running game so we can properly evaluate him. Plus I don’t want to trade our future for Watson. Give Tua one more year with a better line and then see where we’re at.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Burrow's record is 10-6. Herbert's record is 15-16. Tua's record is 12-8. You're a fan of a team that's lucky to make the playoffs this century and you're complaining about a QB who's off to a successful start by any metric conceivable. Because you don't like his YPA (which is equal to Josh Allen's)? You don't have to like Tua, but you're differentiating between "important stats" to make your point? You're really invested in this, huh?

So I guess u feel Tua is better than Burrow and Herbert because of his 12-8 record even though he failed to make playoffs with 2 key end of the season losses?
Burrow and Herbert have far superior stats and one won his division and the other one will see what happens next Sunday.I thought the whole point of the sports is to get into playoffs and potentially get to SB?
Nobody outside of a Tua fan would agree with your assessment because it makes no sense.

"cbrad wrote:

Over/Under on how many more years till we win a SB? lol.. Lots more such offseasons in the future!

I dunno, man. I've been on board with Miami for 50 years now. I remember being happy to make the playoffs under Sparano and then Gase. Screw the fact that the first did it with smoke and mirrors and the second was a malignant narcissist. Never should have believed we turned the corner.

But even for as unhappy as I was yesterday (and on the heels of last year's Buffalol game), I honestly see more reasons for optimism than I've seen since Marino left. Unlike some of you, whether we move forward with Tua or trade for Watson, it's a win-win as long as Flo and Grier just stop trying to overthink it. IMO, if Tua has another year and tanks, we can trade the assets saved from a Watson trade to get Young or Stroud or whichever QB is best in 2023.

I just want to see us focus on foundation building first. With the right OL, we can plug almost anybody under center and expect results. I'll complain about QB when it's no longer a miracle for him to survive a game.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

If they can’t build a complete team…or something resembling a complete team, what makes anyone think they can actually get a “stud” quarterback…let alone an effective offensive scheme?

They can.His name is Watson!

I don't want Watson. But I'm afraid Ross does, and he'll give way too much to get him.

"pumpdogs wrote:

So I guess u feel Tua is better than Burrow and Herbert because of his 12-8 record even though he failed to make playoffs with 2 key end of the season losses?
Burrow and Herbert have far superior stats and one won his division and the other one will see what happens next Sunday.I thought the whole point of the sports is to get into playoffs and potentially get to SB?
Nobody outside of a Tua fan would agree with your assessment because it makes no sense.

It's all good though man.U like Tua and I didnt like him at bama.Not as a person but as a player.So will see happens I personally think Ross will go all in on Watson.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Once again, you're way off base.

Okay, I was just kidding. I dig that we're all fans for some emotional reason, but it doesn't mean we can't be respectful when folks do their fanning differently. Personally, it's too easy to ignore people that I don't like, so when I kick up dust, it's just because it's my thing. Can't really expect to be the only one allowed to be dug in on a point of contention.

Haha, I read that first sentence and thought to myself..... This mother fucker....

"pumpdogs wrote:

So I guess u feel Tua is better than Burrow and Herbert because of his 12-8 record even though he failed to make playoffs with 2 key end of the season losses?
Burrow and Herbert have far superior stats and one won his division and the other one will see what happens next Sunday.I thought the whole point of the sports is to get into playoffs and potentially get to SB?
Nobody outside of a Tua fan would agree with your assessment because it makes no sense.

The whole point of sports is to win. Period. Tua has started 20 games and won .600 of them. That's a fact. If we extrapolate that over a whole season, he would have a 10-7 record, which should be good enough for the playoffs. This is with a trash line. This is with no rushing attack. This is with a receiving corps that is among the worst when it comes to drops.

There are only so many QBs who play as well as Burrow and Herbert did from the start. We didn't have a chance to draft Burrow, so stop talking about him. Did we miss on Herbert? I'll give you that, so there's a win. But we have a guy who's played just over a season's worth of games and he's already displaying an ability to work well within the pro game. My question for you and every other person who thinks he's a stiff is what did you expect after two years? Are you giving up on Trevor Lawrence already? Justin Fields? If they played the way they've played in Dolphins uniforms, would you?

Personally, after 20+ years of wanting competent play, who am I to be greedy enough to demand more now that we have it? Those dude's don't grow on trees. Complaining about missing on Herbert last season is counter-productive because it's actually possible that Tua's a good QB, even if Herbert is better. And hell yeah, I'm a 'Tua fan'. He's my quarterback. Since when is that a pejorative phrase? If we had Watson, I'd be a Watson fan. Shame on you if you're not the same way.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

The whole point of sports is to win. Period. Tua has started 20 games and won .600 of them. That's a fact. If we extrapolate that over a whole season, he would have a 10-7 record, which should be good enough for the playoffs. This is with a trash line. This is with no rushing attack. This is with a receiving corps that is among the worst when it comes to drops.

There are only so many QBs who play as well as Burrow and Herbert did from the start. We didn't have a chance to draft Burrow, so stop talking about him. Did we miss on Herbert? I'll give you that, so there's a win. But we have a guy who's played just over a season's worth of games and he's already displaying an ability to work well within the pro game. My question for you and every other person who thinks he's a stiff is what did you expect after two years? Are you giving up on Trevor Lawrence already? Justin Fields? If they played the way they've played in Dolphins uniforms, would you?

Personally, after 20+ years of wanting competent play, who am I to be greedy enough to demand more now that we have it? Those dude's don't grow on trees. Complaining about missing on Herbert last season is counter-productive because it's actually possible that Tua's a good QB, even if Herbert is better. And hell yeah, I'm a 'Tua fan'. He's my quarterback. Since when is that a pejorative phrase? If we had Watson, I'd be a Watson fan. Shame on you if you're not the same way.

Oh I'm all in on Watson!

"Rick 1966 wrote:

I don't want Watson. But I'm afraid Ross does, and he'll give way too much to get him.

Why not? I feel like Miami has all the pieces to be a real contender with a top QB like Watson.

Assuming he is clear of the legal matters. Miami should all be in to land him, even if its involved throwing couple early picks....

"pumpdogs wrote:

Oh I'm all in on Watson!

I would be if he was my QB. The only difference between us is that I'm not proclaiming Tua to be the problem or Watson (at his price point) to be the answer. Am I a Tua fan? Yep. Am I a Tua stan? Nope. If he played for somebody else, I wouldn't be posting in a thread trying to bring him to Miami. But I see his potential and after seeing 20+ f*** ups in 20+ years at QB, I don't trust another non-organic fix.

The fact that Ross is all in on Watson is all the proof I need that bringing him will result in another 20 years of mediocrity.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

.

The fact that Ross is all in on Watson is all the proof I need that bringing him will result in another 20 years of mediocrity.

Im assuming your not a big fan of Watson as a player?

From someone that has watched him in our division and absolutely hate the Texans, Watson is a TOP QB!!! POSSIBLY A top 5 QB, especially if he lands with Parker and Waddle...

"Cashvillesent wrote:

Im assuming your not a big fan of Watson as a player?

From someone that has watched him in our division and absolutely hate the Texans, Watson is a TOP QB!!! POSSIBLY A top 5 QB, especially if he lands with Parker and Waddle...

I love DeShaun Watson. If we were talking about getting him for two #1s and a second, I'd be all in to get him. But when the price is three first rounders, a couple of second rounders and change, I don't think he's worth it. That mortgages any chance we have to improve once we get him. And trust me, his taking most of our cap space would put a lot of pressure on Grier to put a roster around him with what remains. In the end, I have two reasons for wanting to stick with Tua:
1. I think we haven't scratched the surface of his potential and it's too soon to move on. He's going to be a top-10 QB really soon. Watson is a top-5 QB and the difference is significant.
2. I don't trust Stephen Ross. His instincts suck ass and if he's for it, I'm against it. That sounds silly to most, but it's my opinion and I'm going to die on that hill.

But don't mistake my Tua advocacy for ignorance. I'm not ever going to trash Watson, Burrow or Herbert, regardless of how much I like my dude. But if I scratch my head when he's being attacked, I'm going on record to counter some of the sillier rhetoric.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I love DeShaun Watson. If we were talking about getting him for two #1s and a second, I'd be all in to get him. But when the price is three first rounders, a couple of second rounders and change, I don't think he's worth it. That mortgages any chance we have to improve once we get him. And trust me, his taking most of our cap space would put a lot of pressure on Grier to put a roster around him with what remains. In the end, I have two reasons for wanting to stick with Tua:
1. I think we haven't scratched the surface of his potential and it's too soon to move on. He's going to be a top-10 QB really soon. Watson is a top-5 QB and the difference is significant.
2. I don't trust Stephen Ross. His instincts suck *** and if he's for it, I'm against it. That sounds silly to most, but it's my opinion and I'm going to die on that hill.

But don't mistake my Tua advocacy for ignorance. I'm not ever going to trash Watson, Burrow or Herbert, regardless of how much I like my dude. But if I scratch my head when he's being attacked, I'm going on record to counter some of the sillier rhetoric.

I loved Watson until I learned that he has poor control over his vices. I do not think Vice City is a good place for him. South Beach would kick his ass.

"Cashvillesent wrote:

Why not? I feel like Miami has all the pieces to be a real contender with a top QB like Watson.

Assuming he is clear of the legal matters. Miami should all be in to land him, even if its involved throwing couple early picks....

The man has problems. I don't want them to become the Dolphins' problems.

"Cashvillesent wrote:

I feel like Miami has all the pieces to be a real contender with a top QB like Watson.

What pieces?

A good defense. One good WR. A second WR who can't stay healthy and has like 2 good games a year. A league worst OL. Some JAGs everywhere else.

And once we get Watson, we aren't doing much adding now or later. I feel like getting Watson as we are is ripe for us to mimic Watson's last active season.

"cbrad wrote:

Then again if Grier has one more fantastic draft like last year that might not be so true anymore. Question is whether Waddle, Phillips and Holland were such an exception that Grier can't replicate it. But if he can, then he can build a complete team. Stay tuned for 2022 lol.

Not just draft.His free agent signings have been terrible.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I loved Watson until I learned that he has poor control over his vices. I do not think Vice City is a good place for him. South Beach would kick his ***.

I have concerns about his situation. Getting him before its resolved would be a huge blunder for the Dolphins, IMO. Even if it's evaluated from only a PR standpoint, it's a horrible move. Can you imagine the billboards with him standing up and smiling in a Dolphins uniform with two beautiful young cheerleaders standing beside him? Ross and Grier are going to have to answer questions as to why they thought winning was important enough to ignore his alleged transgressions. The fact that Ross strongly encouraged him to settle the cases is evidence that as far as he is concerned, 20+ credible accounts of sexual impropriety (and at least two being investigated as criminal offenses) are okay. To make it all worse, if we lost Tua, multiple draft picks and dug a $40 million carve out into our roster and wound up having our new starting QB spend 6-17 games on the Commisoner's Exempt list, I'll probably become more of a general fan than I am right now. I might not be a fan after that. I love his on-field attributes but have my limits.

Watson is most likely facing a suspension when he does return. Giving Tua a third year with an improved offensive line and a starting running back isn't the worst idea in the world. In fact, it's probably the most sound, level headed move we can make. Tua is getting a third year with this team. He's shown enough to deserve that shot, but he can't keep losing games like this in this fashion. In my opinion it's do or die next year for him. We should look at drafting someone too. If we do in fact swing for Watson, I will be totally fine with it as long as we can still improve the O line and running back positions.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

If we do in fact swing for Watson, I will be totally fine with it as long as we can still improve the O line and running back positions.

If we get Watson you improve WR and RB. You can ignore OL. He has proven he can play elite with as bad an OL as it gets (pass protection wise). But it was very clear he couldn't overcome the lack of at least a decent running game for short yardage situations.

That would be a SB contender actually: our defense (minimum top 10, preferably better) + Watson + a decent running game + one more good WR. That's actually a scary team.