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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.
Yet again moving the goalposts.
It's just as valid as claiming that Tua had beaten anytime by himself.
Holy crap! You literally said "put a spanking on Josh Allen" WTF MAN!??? You simply can't just walk that back!
What does that mean? He literally said "spanking" and then walked it back and said "well ok, how about just beating them"
Nope. I meant exactly what I asked. We can go over semantics all you want.
Ok...so if we were to beat Buffalo in their house in mid January it would only be good enough if Tua played a flawless game, airing it out for 400 yards and 5 TDs. This has reached a new level of ridiculousness with about three of you!
What's so hard to admit that Tua is 1-0 vs Herbert? Just like Tom Brady is 11-6 vs Peyton Manning.
Is Tua better than Herbert right now? No. But, the Tua led Dolphins beat the Herbert led Chargers their first meeting. It's ok to admit.
I wonder who Dolphins fans are going to be rooting for this season when they play again.
And you're simply a hater who literally just typed something a minute ago and then said that you didn't, and then changed the scenario again. Nobody is going into Buffalo in January and spanking Josh Allen.
Spot on. We are basically in the same situation we were with Tannehill. He's only as good as the team you build around him. He doesn't have the elite talent to elevate the team's play and pull out wins in the big games, which is what you need from your QB in order to win a Superbowl.
Ok, are the Tua supporters confident that a Tua led Dolphins team can go into Barfalo late in the year, in inclimate weather and just barely beat Josh Allen and the Bills?
"Tua needs to spank Josh Allen and the Bills in Buffalo in icy conditions in January or it's not good enough"...."No wait....that's not what I said"
I'm done here.
I know right! You openly made yourself sound completely ridiculous in front of everyone here!
Forget about spanking Allen in January. Do you think Tua can do what Mahomes did and beat Allen in a shootout deep in the playoffs? Don't think so...
No. I really didn't. You are getting your panties all in a bunch over of the semantics of "spanking". You are dodging the question and I even just rephrased the question to make you happy.
Who else can?
Oh, I can think of a few. Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow, and oh yeah, Herbert, the guy we should have picked instead of Tua.
The statement was not that he is 1-0 against Herbert. The statement in question implied that TUA beat Herbert.
Can Herbert make the playoffs first before we lump him in to going toe to toe with Josh Allen and Pay Mahomes in a shootout in the playoffs?
All he had to do was beat the Texans last year and he choked.
Right, you want to hold him to "spanking," when he was clearly being a little exaggerated, but has since clarified the question.
I'm saying, you guys aren't being any more realistic in how you talk about Tua. You cite stats, yet refuse to discuss how he accumulated those stats, out what else could have produced those stats. People are saying Tua beat teams or other QBs, as if Tua is playing defense and throwing to himself. But that's ok...but don't anyone dare say anything about "spanking" Allen and the Bills, that's just ridiculous.
And then we get called clowns.
Tua has choked in pretty much every big game for us, yet you're still crowning him The Man.
The chargers have no defense, and their coach is a situational idiot. Herbert played lights out most of the season and in crunch time. Are you just going to ignore what he did against the Raiders? Call me when Tua does something anywhere close to that.
Yes, but we couldn't go deep because of the time to pressure- Tua would have been hit when Parker was 10 yards downfield (and still blanketed in coverage). The reason for more deep passes wasn't Tua's arm; it was the failure of the offensive line to buy any time at all. Nothing we did last year was sustainable because our entire offense was a joke.
I do get what you're saying, but to have a balanced offense, you have to actually be balanced. That doesn't mean to run the ball 15 times a game for 56 yards either. We've made major strides this offseason in getting some weapons and protection that's going to benefit everyone involved, but mainly Tua. So I'm pretty confident that you'll see that the "can't go deep" stuff is just a myth.
The time to pressure was one factor, yes. I said there was a combination of factors, and Tua is included in that. Tua had never been a deep ball thrower like Herbert, even in college. Tua does not have the arm strength to throw receivers open deep, and it still seems like he isn't seeing NFL open, which isn't surprising given the separation his receivers had in college.
Again, I'm not saying Tua is trash. I'm just saying he isn't the answer. I'm not saying we can't win with Tua, I'm saying that it's going to be expensive to win with Tua, because he requires significant help around him.
I just think you, and many others, are sugarcoating Tua's flaws because you want him to actually be worth all the hype. I just don't buy hype any longer, and Tua has never been a guy who is the focus of the offense.
Are you ignoring what he did against the terrible Texans?
Supporting = Crowning?
I've said constantly if he doesn't have a great season and make the playoffs he's done here.
I felt like he was setup to fail in his early career. He has the offensive minded coach now, he has the weapons to throw to and they put some protection in front of him.
Like I said a million times it's make or break time.
He went 27 of 35 for 336 yards, with 1 TD and 2 INT, even on his worst days he's better than Tua.
You're wrong. He threw 2 touchdowns that day.
Tua's become so divisive for Dolphins fans (and national media) that I think people miss the point. The only defense for Tua is that he hasn't been given a fair chance to prove what he can do. I'm not declaring him a stud, just refusing to call him a stiff. The main debate among the honest folks on both sides of the discussion is whether we've seen enough to be optimistic about his prospects, regardless of the roster around him.
IMO, putting anybody behind the wheel of a racecar that's fueled with low-grade diesel and complaining that he can't win a race is disingenuous. Put the right fuel in the car and let's see whether he can drive it. To be sure, the same level of performance (or even slightly better) with this year's team is unsatisfactory. If his production doesn't skyrocket, I'll jump in on the other side of the debate.
He wasn't exaggerating. He got caught out.
Ok, since you took it this way: Yes, if this team, with all of the moves made, can’t occasionally go to Buffalo late in the year and YES, put a mighty big SPANKING on Allen and the Bills, they will never be a success. Is that what has you so pumped? Do you think they ever can? …and YES, I would be extremely confident that if this team, with all of the moves made, had Herbert at QB, that they could most definitely go up and put a serious SPANKING on Barfalo.
What? What are you talking about? I've said REPEATEDLY that with better players Tua will play better. But I don't believe he will play to a level that isn't attainable by many QBs. So we are again in the same situation that we've been in for the past 20 years. A QB that just isn't quite gonna crack the top 10. Always showing some promise while never attaining. All while other teams are willing to repeatedly draft QBs high to find their guy, and do.
Like remember when Marino was QB? If talk **** to my Pats and Bills fans friends, and I knew that win or lose, Marino was gonna have us in that game and if things went our way, we could blow them out. It was awesome. That's what I want at QB.
I think these younger guys just don't know that feeling because they never experienced it on their team. But ain't no one believing that Tua could ever do something like that.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Tua proves me wrong this season. That would be amazing. I'm just not holding my breath
I don't think Tua has that in him. This is going to have to be a team thing, where our scheme and our skill-position players run rings around people and our line wins the battle in the trenches. I guess I have just resigned myself that we are not ever again going to have a superstar QB.
I mean, I'm optimistic. Tua is very efficient and generally makes smart decisions in a hurry. Maybe that's enough, maybe not. The biggest thing I want in a QB is consistency and I think he has that. You're right as well though, he's not flashy, won't make huge plays on his own, etc. I'm okay with all of that IF WE'RE WINNING.
If we're losing though with this overhaul, then it's very easy to say that Tua's skill-set is not enough. But as long as we're collecting W's, then I'll continue to be a fan of Tua. I can't stress this enough, LOL, I did not want to draft Tua for the exact reasons you've named. I wanted Burrow as the starter or Hurts as a project. Now that Tua's here though, I'm all in on him until I just can't be anymore.
One thing to keep in mind- the last time we won the AFC East, it was with a noodle-armed QB named Pennington on the back-end of his career. Very similar skill-sets and with a team around him, it was fun football to watch. He got hurt and we replaced him the next season with Henne, a strong-armed cannon that played hard but didn't have enough experience to put it all together. So it's not like this is the first time we decided to go with a guy who doesn't have a rocket of an arm.
Man, I vividly remember those days...we were never truly out of a game with #13 in the huddle. But I think you're wrong about the team believing since we've overcome so much adversity the past three seasons under Grier. These guys had every reason to quit on Flores and they just didn't. Look at that 8-1 run to end the season...we were the first team ever to start 1-7 and finish with a record above .500.
There's something special about this team right now and I think we had almost the perfect offseason to see it all come into shape. My only fear is the defense won't be the same. If they are though, then I think the sky is the limit for 2022.
I was talking about posters on here, nut the players. Lol. Like if you didn't live in the Marino years, you don't know what it's like to actually believe that your team is going to go into stacked Buffalo in December and beat them down because of the QB.
Yeah, very true- we didn't go into any games, anywhere expecting to lose. With Marino, there was always a good chance...even when we were down multiple scores at halftime. When he got hot, it was a thing of beauty to watch.
You say don't use "Raw" numbers, then arbitrarily divide his TDs to get a "unimpressive" average per season of 29. And, since it seems that some think all posts should reference Herbert, El Herberto threw more than 29 TDs in only one season at Oregon. (I know, poor guy only had the best teammates Nike could buy, not at all like Bama)
Still, lets not use "raw" career numbers then. The first of those 3 seasons Tua was a true freshman and had 77 total attempts. 11 TDs on those 77 attempts. The last of which was a walk off notational championship winning play. He followed that up with leading the SEC in TD passes, and total TDs accounted for, set Alabama's all time record for most TD accounted for, and his final season threw 33 TDs in 8.5 games.
He was one of the best QBs in the history of the NCAA. Debating that isn't going to work. It just isn't. Tebow is also one of the greatest QBs in the history of the NCAA, so it doesn't really matter as far as playing great in the NFL. The fact that you are even questioning his college play shows where this thread is. This time I really, really, mean it when I say I am going to try to ignore this thread until we get to see Tua actually playing again. It's just hard when you see that notification that you've been replied to.
Hopefully you’re smart enough to realize this is a western, gunslinger narrative used by the media to get ratings l. Most fans have never played football, and if they have, aren’t smart enough to understand the complexities of the game and how it impacts the outcome of the game.