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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Make sure you don't put Mike Tannenbaum in that camp:
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Picking the wrong QB has been the problem for the past 20 years. I'll be ecstatic if Tua plays liked the QB you guys think he is.

    If he plays like he did last year, were gonna be looking for a new QB, but without the ammo to go get him.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Please, please don't ever try to draw a similarity between Marino and Tua. If Tua played like Marino, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Double digit wins is nothing now.
     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That's a perfect example of how stats don't tell you anything. Lol
     
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  6. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I think the point is that even the elite quarterbacks in the league sometimes aren't elite right away. The Bills got Stefon Diggs after that second year and Allen took off.

    Let's hope Tyreek Hill does the same for Tua.
     
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  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Who would? He is a moron.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh, I absolutely agree. I just meant the scenario of developing into a great QB but never winning it all. Marino was pretty much a stud from his 1st start forward- no comparison there at all.
     
  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I know, right? If he had a record of success as a GM/personnel man, his opinion might matter. But he took money for nothing and now sounds like he has an ax to grind.
     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I caught that a few days ago, he's one of the few. There was one more fairly notable name that was bashing Tua, can't think of who it was though. The others on that segment jumped all over Tannenbaum for it though.
     
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Another Tua-basher is Ryan Clark, leader of the "if he doesn't perform, the Dolphins will HAVE to move on" camp. That's a slight equivocation his previous "Tua will never be a good QB" takes, though. Note: By "Tua-basher", I'm not talking about the folks who say they're unimpressed and doubt he'll be good. I'm talking about somebody whose mind is made up that he doesn't need to see stats to know that somebody will never make it. Hmm... Ryan Clark might be a member of this board.
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    New staff, big upgrades on the roster, promising head coach, what’s your issue?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2022
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well, like I've said before, I just don't see the physical abilities to really explode with better players around. Yes, he SHOULD improve, almost any QB will.

    This feels exactly like the Tannehill argument, but I'm on the other side now. But, like I've said before, the reason I so strongly was for building around Tannehill was because he was big and strong cannon arm, and I felt like with better protection and s decent run game, that arm talent could be deadly. So, like I keep saying, you guys are seeing something I'm not.

    I hope you're right.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Someone stole verbatim what I’ve been saying;g about Tua, totally agreed..

    I can only add this, Tua is not a conventional qb and will need a coach that will recognize and exploit the strengths..
     
  15. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with this.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I lobbied hard on this site for us to draft Russel Wilson and Pat Mahomes, however at this point in time I evaluate the present, don’t live in the past, fear of the past is not gonna cloud my logic.

    This team is ready to compete to a degree, they’re very young which is a plus, so they’re in a good position and I’m good with the job Grier has done even though Flores didn’t work out.

    I will admit if there is proof that Ross offered him money to tank I want that Dumass kicked out, but I still like what happening in the present.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
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  17. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Herbert hasn’t figured out how to use his big shiny arm yet and is mostly the king of check downs.

    … Some people will be devastated to hear.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
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  18. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you even post this crap? See below and call me when Tua can do something similar.


    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...l-growth-should-scare-nfl-defenders?_amp=true

    "Herbert’s pass went 63.8 yards in the air, supplanting his TD at Cincinnati as the second-longest completion in the NFL this year (behind a Baker Mayfield Hail Mary). This was his 10th career completion that traveled 55-plus yards in the air, the most in the NFL since 2020."
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
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  19. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    You're gonna be waiting a long time for that call
     
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  20. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Ben Volin says Stephen Ross was planning to add Tom Brady not only as a minority owner this year but also as a football tzar, Brady was then going to hire Sean Payton as his head coach for the Dolphins. The plan was derailed by the Brian Flores lawsuit.
     
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  21. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Tremendous throw!

    Of course you’re right… guys like Tua, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees can’t make that throw.

    Guys like Herbert, Baker Mayfield and Jamarcus Russell can absolutely bomb a football.

    One might argue there are a few more intangibles that determines a QB’s success.
     
  22. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are and no one said nor implied anything different. If you have ever watched Herbert, he certainly can make all of the throws. Tua has shown to be solid on the short to intermediate game. Like Herbert can, if Tua can excel more consistently on all the types of throws, then we got something and we can all shut up. Here’s hoping.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
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  23. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    This is all you see though, the highlight bomb throws. They don't see the all dump offs and screens to Ekeler that he takes 30 yards, the 5 yard slants to Allen. He had 100 catches for 992 yards, not exactly racking up yards.

    Every quarterback throws short passes more often than not. When people say that's all Tua does and everyone else throws 30+ yard bombs all game is just ignorant because everyone does it.
     
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  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  26. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Let's make it a double feature:
     
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  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Going back over some older videos and this one has some good bits and pieces.



    At the beginning, just the perspective on RPOs and how the choice to utilise a lot of those plays means that you're choosing to live with some imperfections - as a results of the nature of the RPOs, not the QB.

    "The thing about living with RPOs is that you have to live with some being mediocre, some being the wrong decision... I'm not sure it's sustainable...

    ...when I say you're going to have to live with some of he good....it's not always going to be perfect when you live in this RPO world. Sometimes the quarterback is going make some mistakes, sometimes you just don't see it, sometimes the roles might not allow you to see it and play fast consistently..."

    "But sometimes you're going to get caught. The read will tell you to pull it, there won't be anything good there and you're throwing a contested 'wheel' or 'go'... "

    This means an offensive scheme based on heavy RPO plays is going to have some 'baked in' mistakes or errors. It's asking a lot of the QB in terms of reading and decision making, often before things become clear. It relies on a lot of different things coming together.

    I imagine that better individual WR and RB talent can make a big different here, but at the same time it's going to be problematic at times.

    It makes me hope that McDaniel's offense is a little lighter on the RPO plays, especially if an improved OL can offer decent protection to allow longer plays to develop.

    Regardless, this sort of thing helps me appreciate what's going on and what Tua's being asked to do, and to see that he's doing it well.
    When you factor in that the Dolphins were #1 in the league in tight throws/at the bottom of the league for WR separation, this sort of helps to explain why, how tough it was at times.
     
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  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Truthfully? Yes. One of the things that gets me about football discussions is the conversation evolves into this…the QUARTERBACK is the one out on the field playing football, and the other 10 guys are just along for the ride. That’s utter nonsense!

    No quarterback can do their job effectively on the field if the other 10 guys aren’t doing theirs.

    -If the linemen don’t effectively block, the quarterback can’t see and survey the field.

    -If the receivers aren’t running their assigned routes effectively, the quarterback has no one to throw the ball to.

    The quarterback is one piece of the puzzle in the passing game albeit, an important piece but nonetheless, one piece out of 11.

    Many times, folks here want to bring up the extremely rare great quarterbacks and make those comparisons but I’ll bet you a dime to a dollar if you were to actually ask any of those great quarterbacks about the success they had in a game, they’re going to defer to the great plays their teammates made that gave the quarterback the opportunity to have the great game he did.

    So yes, a Tua led team can indeed go into Buffalo in January and win.
     
  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    So, your last line would have sufficed. I didn't need the football team building 101 stuff, but thanks anyway. That wasn't the point. With this team the way it is currently constructed. That's what I meant. Thought that would be understood.
     
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  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mean, what teams in the league can confidently go into Buffalo in December and expect to win? KC lost there. Tenn lost there. They're a great home team that's super tough to beat, and honestly that's a good thing.

    Not sure how old/young you are, but if you go back 15-20 years these divisional games were completely different. The Pats were the lousy team in the division and it honestly didn't matter how good Buffalo or the Jets were, those games were all-out wars. It didn't matter if we were 1-15 or 15-1, going up north offered no guarantees because these divisional teams absolutely hated each other. But our team would leave everything on the field every single time, just like our opponents would.

    My point is that competing against an elite team is a good thing- I wish we could play 16 elite teams per year. It elevates everyone in the building and you end up with wins like when we played Baltimore last year- NOBODY thought we had a chance in that one and Miami shocked the world. That's how championship football is played though, you come out and play like champions. And you don't see that much when you're playing Jacksonville or Houston.
     
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  31. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    My question was not meant to instigate. It was an honest question to see where everyone's confidence level is in the team now with the changes made. I think we will have to be somewhat confident that, at times, we will be able to go up there late in the year, in inclement weather and put the smack down on them. How else can we be considered a success in our own division?
     
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  32. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Ok, but you did preface your question with “all you Tua supporters”…hence the antagonist set up.
     
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  33. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yes. You should know what I meant given what's been going on here for months. The divide has been clear. I am just curious to gauge, given all the moves made, where everyone's confidence level is now at.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2022
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  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, so could a Jay Fielder led team with Ricky at running back. The point is, even in your scenario, you don't have confidence because of Tua, but because of the team. I get that. But, having a better QB means you don't have to have the same level of talent around him. Like I said earlier, when it was Marino, you always knew there was a chance. He could throw balls into windows that weren't even there.

    We know Tua ain't that.
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's not antagonistic. Clearly those of us not on the Tua bandwagon don't have confidence in TUA to go into a game like that and play well, regardless of who his teammates are.

    So he wanted to get a feel for the Tua supporters, how confident are they with Tua at the helm in a game like that.
     
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  36. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    …and yeah, key, I am old enough to remember. I remember that no matter what are records were, whenever we payed the Jets, they were nail biter dogfights. But..I had confidence that at least at times we certainly had the chance to woop them:
    With all of the moves made, we should certainly be confident that, at times, we will be able to go up there and occasionally whoop the Jill’s or all of these moves made won’t mean much.
    I mean, it wasn’t late in the season, but a gutted team with Fitztragic lost to them only by a FG. It is not so far fetched. It should be possible. It better be possible:
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2022
  37. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t agree more.

    It annoys the hell out of me, when supposed experts say, "He won the game all on his own".

    No, he didn’t.

    Whether it’s football, soccer, rugby, basketball or any other team game, a star player needs the rest of the team around him to be effective.
     
  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I remember that one- wasn't it like 9 to 7? Both defenses played great. And we have the ability to be at that level for a number of years given how young our team is today. Howard & Jones won't be around forever but we are building that nucleus around them. That's pretty much why the Jets haven't beat us in years and we swept the Pats last season.

    Could we do that this year against Buffalo? It's a longshot, but maybe. To me, I'm more focused on our home game against them to split the series. I do think we can take that one and go 5-1 in the division. Counting on winning at Buffalo though, especially late-season, maybe that's a goal for 2-3 years down the road. And I'm not saying that to be negative....it's just that hard to win there.

    Honestly, I hope the Jets improve this season since I don't even get excited about beating them anymore. I mean, yeah, Jets lose! But it's not like how I'd feel five years ago when we stomped them. They're an embarrassment to the league.
     
  39. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    BS! On that one! It was absolutely meant to instigate. You went from "spanking" Josh Allen to barely beating the Bills and now it's back up to "put the smack down."
    LOOK.....Lets just leave TUA out of the GD equation for a second. Can Miami (as constructed) win a game in Buffalo in the winter? It would be difficult to do with Joe Montana at quarterback! I don't think Marino did it very often past 1986. Again, it's a team sport. Since I've been watching us (1990), I can probably count on half of a hand how many times Marino..."And the Dolphins" beat the Bills in their house and I'm not talking about the Bills from the late 90s. I'm talking about the perennial super bowl teams that were pretty much dominant from 1989 to 1995. Within that 7/8 year span...With Dan Marino at quarterback, I can count two times if I'm correct that we (THE MIAMI DOLPHINS FOOTBALL TEAM) beat them in their house. That's WITH a HOF quarterback under center, but I can assure you that the defense had something to say about those games.
    So you...baiting this with your corny *** narrative "can Tua win in Buffalo" is what absolutely makes it an instigation on your part. The first person that even remotely supports the idea of Tua at quarterback for us that answers with "well, no I don't think we can beat Buffalo in their stadium during a winter storm" gets blasted by you for supporting him. Now you're walking it back and asking if the Miami Dolphins "AS A TEAM" can beat Buffalo in Buffalo! So you've totally covered yourself here. You've basically ignored all the questions you posted, all the sequels and we're now back to square one. I swear this is like the Halloween movies all over again. "Well, lets ignore the sequels with Jamie Lee Curtis and skip right to H20. Well, now lets skip H20 (after all Michael didn't really die) and kill off Jamie, but then bring her back because we're ignoring the other sequels now with a NEW movie, and we're calling this movie...."Halloween!"

    So ok...I'll play along and answer your ever revolving flavor changing question.
    YES! We can win in Buffalo, but it's going to be our defense that wins and it's going to be the offense AND Tua not making mistakes and sustaining drives that gets us a win there. It would help if Josh Allen had an off game, it would help us to run the ball against them, it would help if we could stop their run. Late December/January games...In winter conditions, are usually decided in the trenches and just playing mistake free football. I don't see us getting into a shootout with Buffalo in early January in a snow storm where we win 49-48 in a thriller with Tua throwing for 567 yards and 7 TDs. I'm sure Justin Herbert could do it, but the games do fluctuate. The NFL is a tricky place to hang out in sometimes. The games don't always go the way they are predicted. The Saints blew the doors off of Aaron Rodgers and the Packers week 1 last season. Rodgers was absolutely terrible. He went on to win MVP, but I can promise you that nobody saw that type of game coming.

    "Oh Don't you dare mention Tua in the same sentence with Aaron Rodgers" ho hum comeback incoming in 0.5 seconds. First off, before you go that route, I'm not putting them in the same conversation. I'm simply saying that you never really know how it's gonna go down when the games are played. I never would have ever bet on San Francisco beating Green Bay in Green Bay during the playoffs. Not in a million years with Jimmy G at quarterback would I have taken that bet. But hey...It happened. Oh...The Bengals almost won the Super Bowl this year too! Crazy!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2022
  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    HaHa! No. It really wasn't. That's how some people like you took it and yes, I had to rephrase it several times. I couldn't read all of your post since you clearly missed the point. Never mind. Just move along.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2022
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