1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    7,806
    3,265
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY
    He's from Hawaii...of course he can swim.
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Yes, I believe Tua can be that quarterback. He had three stud receivers at Alabama, and now he has three stud receivers with Miami (counting Gisecki...or Preston Williams when he's healthy). Do I think Miami will blow everyone out? Ehh, I think they have the potential to blow out bad/average teams and hang with the elite, which is also on par for Alabama vs. Clemson, LSU, Florida, Georgia, etc.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    He had stud receivers, stud running backs, and a stud oline.

    More than that, though, he does not have the talent disparity vs other teams that he had in college. Ignoring that is the most frustrating part of all this. Tua was effective running essentially an all SEC all star team.
     
  4. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,457
    3,465
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I seem to remember Tua coming to national prominence with his play in the 2017 national championship game, where his substitution for Jalen Hurts was seen as the key factor in Alabama’s win. I also seem to remember him performing well in the 2018 post season and national championship game.
    I must have some kind of problem with my memory because in my memory he performed well against the top college teams and in the college playoffs where he was QBing one college all star team against other college all star teams.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    None of my post had anything to do with his quality of play.

    It has everything to do with what is required to get that level of play from him.
     
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    That's a fair point, but that's also the goal of every franchise...to build a complete team. No offense to any QB, but even if you put Mahommes or Allen in our offense last season we might win a few more, but we're still nowhere near real super bowl contenders. We'd be a playoff team and maybe the D carries us all the way, but that's not sustainable.

    Guys like Manning or Marino who are elite for 15+ years are one in a million- you just can't count on hitting that lottery. Even someone like Watson; great player, but let's see where he is in five or seven years. My guess is he'll be out of the league entirely from carrying lousy teams and getting battered because of it. The same goes for Burrow...clearly a generational talent. But will he survive? That drives me nuts getting a player like that and not protecting him.

    At least with Tua, he kept mostly clean in the pocket even with lousy protection. That doesn't speak to his ceiling, but it does say that if he gets there someday, he should at least have the longevity to pay off long-term. And I do agree with you, I don't know if he'll ever be Alabama Tua in Miami, but I do like where we're at today.
     
    resnor likes this.
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I agree. But a complete team isn't an all-star team. Hopefully Tua doesn't require an all-star team.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  8. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,457
    3,465
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Your own words - More than that, though, he does not have the talent disparity vs other teams that he had in college. Ignoring that is the most frustrating part of all this

    You were attributing his college success to disparity of talent The fact that he was productive in games where he didn’t have talent disparity shows that his college success was not due to talent disparity.

    Dan Marino’s best year was the year he had his best WRs, best OL and best defense.
     
  9. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

    352
    271
    63
    Sep 16, 2018
    Tua certainly seems to be putting in the hard yards this off-season, which is great to see.
     
    OwesOwn614 likes this.
  10. plc001

    plc001 Well-Known Member

    768
    1,028
    93
    Jun 22, 2008
    To be fair, there are almost verbatim posts from last year.
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Let me try again to explain what I meant...if you are projecting Tua's success in the NFL, based on college performance, then it's important to look at what he had around him in college, isn't it? If a guy plays on a stacked team, relative to their opponents, to put up good numbers, then is it reasonable to expect similar numbers in the NFL, if he doesn't have the same talent disparity that he enjoyed in college? I don't find that to be reasonable.

    If you do, that's fine, but you should have concrete things to point to. I'm in complete agreement that with better players around him, we should expect an improvement in results.

    And the argument about games where he was productive without disparity, are you talking college or NFL? Because my entire argument is that if we don't have one if the best teams in the league, then Tua won't have the same NFL success as he had in college.
     
  12. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,457
    3,465
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I don’t claim myself to be any kind of draft expert.
    However what I look for is how the player performs against the top college teams, how they perform against the Idaho Community College for the Crippled and Blind doesn’t interest me. In big games on the big stage against the big boys Tua produced. Not just OK, but he legitimately played good football against the toughest opponent college football could provide.
    My other criteria is to look at a player’s highlight reel. I want to see 5 things.
    1) Can he beat opponents with physicality?
    2) Can he beat opponents with technique/skill?
    3) Can he beat opponents with mental toughness/perseverance?
    4) Can he beat opponents with intelligence/scheme knowledge?
    5) Can he beat high level opponents?
    What scares me us when any of these elements are missing from a highlight reel. If he can’t do the first 4 against college opponents then he is extremely unlikely to be able to do it in the NFL.
     
    resnor likes this.
  13. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

    3,807
    1,307
    113
    Feb 1, 2012
    Tua was unworthy of a first round pick. He doesn’t have an elite skill. He doesn’t have an elite arm, he doesn’t have elite speed, he doesn’t have elite quickness, he doesn’t have elite awareness and he doesn’t have elite size. The most you can say about him is he is very accurate with underneath throws.
     
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Agree.
    Tua is Ted Ginn 2.0
     
    mlb1399 and Serpico Jones like this.
  15. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    11,523
    4,467
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Williams is number 5 on our roster at the moment.. theres no way you rank him higher than Wilson..
     
    resnor likes this.
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    True, but we didn't see much of Wilson last year so I don't know what's going on there. New regime though, I bet we see more of him.
     
  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
     
  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

    17,599
    10,536
    113
    Apr 22, 2014


     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Crazy list. So we have #1 and #10, plus we traded away #6 and secretly recruited #4. We basically own the top 10, LOL.
     
  20. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Speaking about 'Bama Tua':

     
    Last edited: May 8, 2022
    Striking likes this.
  21. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Speaking of 'Miami Tua':
     
  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Fireland and KeyFin like this.
  23. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Former personnel man (other than Tannenbaum) speaking on Tua:
     
  24. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,006
    5,686
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
     
    canesz06 and resnor like this.
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    It hurts you when others don't dislike him, doesn't it? :chuckle:
     
    Fireland likes this.
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    He's got such a strong arm.

    Typical response to the video from others. Ignore what it shows, and instead point at quotes from talking heads as proof.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
     
    resnor likes this.
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    That might be the most fair assessment yet.
     
  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

    17,599
    10,536
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Minor language warning

     
    PickleRick likes this.
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I mean, that's the whole goal for any QB...putting them in an ideal scenario to succeed. Tua has no excuses this season, so either he steps up or he doesn't. And don't get me wrong here, we all want to see him have an incredible year. But the real goal here is to have a good, unbiased look at what we have and make a decision based on that data.

    The only way we don't know if Tua "is the guy" after this upcoming season is injury- to either himself or the offensive line. That's been the story for almost a decade though with Tannehill, Moore, Brissett, Cutler, etc. There's always been a huge gap between the starter and the next man up, to the point where we ultimately couldn't compete with backups on the field. That's why we're bringing in so much depth at WR, RB, TE, OL, etc. and really hoping all the pieces fall into place.

    This is Tua's "make or break" season, especially since we have two first rounders next year. I'm loving the Deebo stuff in San Fran since we have their 1st rounder- hopefully that turns into a top-10 pick. If Tua doesn't wow us, I'm confident that we'll take a QB in the 1st round or trade that pick for a 2024 1st rounder to a lousy team. Either way though, I think that pick represents Tua's replacement if he doesn't have a solid year.
     
  31. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

    582
    347
    63
    Sep 11, 2016
    I don't know about anybody else but I can't wait to actually have some football to consume. The argument on whether Tua is or isn't the guy won't change in the next few months, because there's nothing tangibly there to move anyone's viewpoint.

    I know that new football won't change the argument either but at least it'll give both sides new evidence to argue upon rather than seeing the same few points repeatedly trotted out.

    I think both sides of the debate can agree that whether or not he has been the problem or not so far, that going forward everybody hopes that the young man balls out and can lead this team to success.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I was referring to the fact that there was no pushing of college stats, or cherry picked NFL stats. He simply said, the team is good enough if Tua is actually that good, and this season he needs to show that he is the real deal. If he doesn't, he's out.

    That's my position, and always has been. Yes, I don't expect elite okay from Tua...ever. That seems to cause people to freak out (not you lol).

    Anyway, I just thought it was a very fair assessment, which is relatively rare amongst the talking heads.
     
    Hooligan and KeyFin like this.
  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I'm pretty much in the middle of the argument, basically how I was with Tannehill. On one hand, I don't see why the Tua fans are trying to prove he's elite- he's clearly not. But I don't get why others see him as a bust either. He's done well in a lousy offense with a really lousy offensive line. For me, there's nothing to grade there...I'd give him an "incomplete" for 2021 since the offense was so bad around him.

    Again though, he'll have a great year or he won't. I'm hoping he does great and breaks every passing record there is, but of course nobody expects for that to happen.
     
  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Offseason chatter (but a guy can dream):
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
    KeyFin likes this.
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

    17,599
    10,536
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Because 5th pick. Supposed to be the franchise savior. So to have a not elite sucks.

    I think Tua will, barring injury, have a decent career.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  37. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,457
    3,465
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Nope. Franchise savior is number 1 overall, maybe number 2.

    The value of draft position decays exponentially. Historically the #5 overall pick performs closer to the #12 pick than the number 2 pick,
     
  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

    17,599
    10,536
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Tyreek Hill with a response to all the criticism of the recent Tua video:

     
    KeyFin likes this.
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I'm not saying what is or isn't reality. Those were people's expectations, realistic or not, especially given the media narrative around Tua. When you seriously consider the players taken after, or if we hadn't traded around, your argument doesn't really hold a ton of water in this specific case.
     
  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,006
    5,686
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    C’mon, bro. You know res is right.
    Of course he was drafted to be the franchise savior.
     
    canesz06 likes this.

Share This Page