1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,457
    3,465
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    The context is yards past the sticks, not total yards per attempt.
     
    PickleRick likes this.
  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Literally, all stats are meaningless without context. Every subjective reason to nitpick falls in the same category.
     
    PickleRick likes this.
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    The stat says "average yards past the sticks on 3rd and 4th down", so that makes me think the opposite- did Miami have a bunch of 3rd and 1's? That's interesting.

    But then you look at the actual numbers- worst on the list throws a yard and a half behind the sticks, while Rodgers is throwing it 5 1/2 yards past the sticks. The writer's quote is comparing Tua throwing it 2.9 yards past the LOS to Mahommes and Allen throwing it 2.6 or 2.7 yards past the LOS.

    On one hand, sure....Tua throws the ball .15 yards further than Mahommes on average on 3rd down. That includes bombs, screens, slants, etc...it's an average. But on the other hand, we're not looking at down or distance here, it's just a random stat that tells us absolutely nothing at all. Why would someone brag about a ball travelling .15 yards further? That's not even a full step...we're talking a few inches here.

    This stat is completely meaningless WITH CONTEXT as well. The only thing that really matters here is the 4 quarterbacks throwing it behind the LOS on 3rd or 4th down...and one of them is Bridgewater. So there's one takeaway here but it has nothing to do with Tua.
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    But if we don't know what the average distance to gain on 3rd down is, for the QBs we are comparing, then you can't really make any meaningful interpretations. You can't meaningfully compare different QBs on that stat without knowing other details.

    Pointless stat.
     
    Sceeto and hitman8 like this.
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    You post a stat that has zero context, and really tells you nothing, and are posting it to advance a narrative, but then attack those who question what that stat actually tells us?

    I mean, you keep posting stats that tell a completely different story than our eyes have seen, but are unwilling to dissect these stats.
     
    Sceeto and hitman8 like this.
  6. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    LOL. That wasn't an "attack" at all. When I said every stat is meaningless without context, I was sincere.

    If anything I post seems to be instigating or intentionally trying to rile any of you guys up, please accept my apology. I'm not here to attack anybody, p*ss anyone off, or start a beef.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    If you think all stats are meaningless without context, and you aren't trying to rile people up, then why are you continually posting non-contextual stats to prop up your argument around Tua? Lol

    Seems strange.
     
    Sceeto and hitman8 like this.
  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Most stats posted in this (or any) thread lack context. You get 240 characters in a tweet. It's no more disingenuous than saying somebody only hoists the ball short distances while continually choosing to ignore the pressure he's under and the roster around him.

    So, if you can reply by saying "Tua's not good because he can't *checks notes* REGULARLY THROW 60 YARD COMPLETIONS", I can reply by posting nebulous stats.
     
    PickleRick likes this.
  9. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    470
    500
    93
    Dec 31, 2018
    Costa Rica
    About 2 months till pre-season. Hang in there guys.
     
    dolphin25, OwesOwn614 and PickleRick like this.
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    First of all, I don't believe anyone has argued that Tua isn't good because he can't throw 60 yards. That is a narrative you are applying to us, and then you run around finding tweets to try to back up your narrative.

    I'm not even arguing the tweet should have it's own context. I'm saying, if you're going to post it, give some context.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
    Sceeto likes this.
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    You seem to be a bit edgy. I'm not running around finding anything. If I see something interesting from either side, I post it. And if you seem to think I'm talking about you ("applying a narrative to us"), then apparently the shoe I'm describing fits.

    Relax. There's nothing personal going on from my standpoint. We're talking about a sport, which is entertainmentfor most of us. I have no agendas or axes to grind and I'm certainly not here to beef over something so subjective as what makes a QB elite.

    I can post anything that "backs up my narrative" that I want and you can either respond or ignore it. Curiously, the things I post that don't back up my perceived narrative don't seem to elicit the same call for context. I'm just throwing stuff into the discussion as fodder for consideration. Take it, leave it, ignore it, discuss it; it's your prerogative. But as I said previously, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, I simply don't share it. Is that okay?
    [​IMG]
     
  12. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    LOL. Don't know why this horrible old poster came to mind when I read your post. Maybe it's because *gasp* I'm a horrible old poster?
    [​IMG]
     
    Hooligan likes this.
  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Bunch of passive aggressive BS. I'm so over people gaslighting people.
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  15. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    That doesn't seem to be quite true. Also seems to be an example of projection. But what do I know? I don't even see Tua as the biggest problem on our team, so I certainly can't be the smartest guy here.

    Oh my... Am I doing it again? :001_rolleyes:
     
  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    The games people play... One video clip led to this established fact:
     
  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,006
    5,686
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
     
    resnor likes this.
  20. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    4,217
    1,236
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    interesting take.
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I thought his evaluation was pretty fair. An evolved Tua equals 10 or 11 wins. Average Tua equals 9. Bad Tua, 7 or 8 wins. That's pretty much my prediction as well. I'd set the baseline one game higher for all of those- but I pretty much agree with his take on everything else.
     
  22. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    3,683
    2,914
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Waiting for owesown to post all the Tua stuff from OTA's today...
     
  23. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    You don't have to tell me twice.:smile:

    BTW: I post more stuff in the offseason thread than here. Guess you didn't notice, though.


     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
    PickleRick likes this.
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    That was a pretty damning assessment by Priscoe (sp?).

    Again, I would love nothing more than for Tua to play insane this year and prove me wrong.
     
    Sceeto, PickleRick and OwesOwn614 like this.
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    We'll see in about a dozen weeks. To be honest, if we can establish the rush, he just needs to maintain the offense for us to be good. I think McDaniel wants something as close to a balanced offensive attack as he can get. But it would be nicer if he's the reason why we're good.
     
    dolphin25, resnor and PickleRick like this.
  26. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,006
    5,686
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Yeah, there were a few others reporting the same thing about that practice. It is a bit worrisome and yeah, I want the same thing for Tua this year. It's early. We'll just have to wait and see.
     
    resnor likes this.
  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,006
    5,686
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Pretty funny:

     
    KeyFin, resnor and JJ_79 like this.
  28. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    2,230
    1,414
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    I never buy into off-season hype. It's show me time for Tua. Until he shows it concistently during the season it's all nothing but hype. Same goes for the Dolphins as a whole.
     
    resnor and Serpico Jones like this.
  29. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

    3,064
    750
    113
    Nov 25, 2012
    Germany
    Let's hope salty Tua proves his doubters wrong...
     
  30. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

    352
    271
    63
    Sep 16, 2018
    I think Tyreek's opinion is the one that really matters.

    If our new WR can catch Tua’s throws, and make something out of them, we are in for a great season.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  31. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

    352
    271
    63
    Sep 16, 2018
    Some people aren’t happy unless they’re moaning.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  32. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    4,217
    1,236
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    I don't see how the team could do worse then last year. Clearly the offense is tremendously upgraded. The defense should not get worse.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  33. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

    3,807
    1,307
    113
    Feb 1, 2012
    We all thought the same thing when we acquired Mike Wallace. He made no difference and the offense continued to suck.
     
    canesz06 and resnor like this.
  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I'm worried the defense will be worse without Flores- the real question is how much worse? If it's a slight drop-off but we also get a better natural pass rush, then we break even and it's a huge win. But if its a major drop-off, then I'm going to be upset since that defense the past few years has really been sometime special.

    Anyway, I hope you're right and the D is about the same. If so, I don't see how we don't win double-digit games.
     
    dolphin25 and resnor like this.
  35. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

    3,807
    1,307
    113
    Feb 1, 2012
    Mike Westhoff says the Dolphins mini camp practice yesterday was “one of the worst displays of offensive football I’ve ever seen in my 32 year career”.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
    resnor likes this.
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    39,997
    32,486
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    You are forgetting the fact that they could become much better.

    if Holland, Wilkens, Phillips, Davis, Jones, Van Ginkle, and/or Needham take the next step, the defense could get a lot better. It is not out of the realm of possiblity that all these players play bettre. However, if just Holland and Phillips take the next step, the defense will be a lot better.
     
    dolphin25 and KeyFin like this.
  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,480
    11,721
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    That's true- I had not thought about it that way. Like I said, I'm hoping that I was wrong about Flores and there's no impact on the D. I'd love to be wrong about that. But I'm already hearing quotes in Pitt praising Flores with starters saying "it's like cheat mode" with him on the sidelines. I have a feeling that he had a significant influence.

    You're right though- Holland and Phillips developing in year two have nothing to do with that. Howard is personally mentoring Holland and only good things can come from their relationship.
     
    dolphin25, Phil Hutchings and resnor like this.
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yuuuuuuup
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,736
    8,654
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    That ****ing pisses me off so much. You should look ****ing spectacular in shorts with no pads and no contact.
     
  40. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    1,627
    1,599
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Here's my thoughts on this: If the offense is better, the defense will be better. For at least a couple of reasons. First, if the offense sustains drives, it means the defense will be off the field and fresher through the game. I'm hoping we improve our time of possession (which was 30:18) to at least 31:30. If we do that with a couple more drives into opponents' territory, it helps the D by giving the opponent the ball less. Secondly, if the offense can score more - and more importantly, first - it puts the defense into a different tactical mode. If, God forbid, we can get a 10 point lead, Boyer's going to have several things to do to either attack the offense or make its job harder.

    I think the defense will be better this year because I expect the offense to do its part. Oh, and don't discount the fact that observers are saying that Noah looks like he might have figured it out. I'm not holding too much hope for that, but if he can step into CB3, we'll have arguably the best DB corps in the league.
     

Share This Page