Tua is not the Problem

"mlb1399 wrote:

Until he can play a full 17 game season, he is very much part of the problem.

I get where you are going with that statement but...it's not really a fair statement, is it?

Tua Tagovailoa
Joe Burrow
Josh Lucas
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray

All young quarterbacks that have or are missing games due to injury...although Murray's is due to his style of running quarterback play but the first 3 are all on TERRIBLE teams.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I get where you are going with that statement but...it's not really a fair statement, is it?

Tua Tagovailoa
Joe Burrow
Josh Lucas
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray

All young quarterbacks that have or are missing games due to injury...although Murray's is due to his style of running quarterback play but the first 3 are all on TERRIBLE teams.

Problem is we drafted one of those guys at #5 coming off a season ending injury with a long track record of injuries. While the injuries in Miami have been Miami, there’s been 3-4 different injuries that have caused him to miss time. Durability was the concern going into the draft and still is for me.

"mlb1399 wrote:

Problem is we drafted one of those guys at #5 coming off a season ending injury with a long track record of injuries. While the injuries in Miami have been Miami, there’s been 3-4 different injuries that have caused him to miss time. Durability was the concern going into the draft and still is for me.

If Burrow and Lucas also haven’t had injuries that caused them to miss games, that would strengthen your argument but as they too are/were out as rookie quarterbacks with injuries sustained at the NFL level, in my mind, Tua’s injuries are no different.

Instead of everyone debating whether or not Tagovailoa is the quarterback of the future for the Dolphins, the argument should be WHAT holes/positions need to be filled to make Tua successful. Fill those holes…if Tagovailoa shines, he shines. If he doesn’t, then the Aston Martin has been built for the next “driver” (quarterback) to take over and out the pedal to the metal.

This is the only LOGICAL step/process to follow. Look at Tennessee. They drafted Mariotta. Horrible team. Mariotta struggled. Tennessee then went out and bolstered their offensive line and got a powerhouse running back in Henry. Mariotta STILL didn’t shine. Tennessee picked up Tannehill and since then, they have gone pedal to the metal, going to the AFC championship, going 11-5 last season and currently the number 1 seed in the AFC this year. We can debate Tannehill all day long but the point is they have built up an offensive powerhouse that’s consistently rolled over opponents. This is what Miami needs to do…build the offensive powerhouse and quit trying to catch lightening in a bottle.

More than saying we need better OL players, we seriously need better coaching. They need to hire a veteran OL coach. This is essential. A lot of this falls on Flo. He has to be able to accept that he needs a good veteran OL coach.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

If Burrow and Lucas also haven’t had injuries that caused them to miss games, that would strengthen your argument but as they too are/were out as rookie quarterbacks with injuries sustained at the NFL level, in my mind, Tua’s injuries are no different.

Instead of everyone debating whether or not Tagovailoa is the quarterback of the future for the Dolphins, the argument should be WHAT holes/positions need to be filled to make Tua successful. Fill those holes…if Tagovailoa shines, he shines. If he doesn’t, then the Aston Martin has been built for the next “driver” (quarterback) to take over and out the pedal to the metal.

This is the only LOGICAL step/process to follow. Look at Tennessee. They drafted Mariotta. Horrible team. Mariotta struggled. Tennessee then went out and bolstered their offensive line and got a powerhouse running back in Henry. Mariotta STILL didn’t shine. Tennessee picked up Tannehill and since then, they have gone pedal to the metal, going to the AFC championship, going 11-5 last season and currently the number 1 seed in the AFC this year. We can debate Tannehill all day long but the point is they have built up an offensive powerhouse that’s consistently rolled over opponents. This is what Miami needs to do…build the offensive powerhouse and quit trying to catch lightening in a bottle.

I agree about team building. Priority number 1 has to be this OL. That will help Tua stay more healthy.

My argument has nothing to do with Tua in comparison to really anyone other than who else was available at #5. I’m not even saying QB’s don’t/shouldn’t get injured. The problem is Tua has a long history of not being able to stay healthy, we overlooked that and he continues to have issues staying healthy. If it were one fluke injury, I couldn’t understand but he’s brittle.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

If Burrow and Lucas also haven’t had injuries that caused them to miss games, that would strengthen your argument but as they too are/were out as rookie quarterbacks with injuries sustained at the NFL level, in my mind, Tua’s injuries are no different.

Instead of everyone debating whether or not Tagovailoa is the quarterback of the future for the Dolphins, the argument should be WHAT holes/positions need to be filled to make Tua successful. Fill those holes…if Tagovailoa shines, he shines. If he doesn’t, then the Aston Martin has been built for the next “driver” (quarterback) to take over and out the pedal to the metal.

This is the only LOGICAL step/process to follow. Look at Tennessee. They drafted Mariotta. Horrible team. Mariotta struggled. Tennessee then went out and bolstered their offensive line and got a powerhouse running back in Henry. Mariotta STILL didn’t shine. Tennessee picked up Tannehill and since then, they have gone pedal to the metal, going to the AFC championship, going 11-5 last season and currently the number 1 seed in the AFC this year. We can debate Tannehill all day long but the point is they have built up an offensive powerhouse that’s consistently rolled over opponents. This is what Miami needs to do…build the offensive powerhouse and quit trying to catch lightening in a bottle.

The Burrow injury was a freak injury. Burrow doesn't have the injury history Tia has, and either way Burrow was not available at #5 when we picked Tua over Herbert. Like it or not the comparison will always be between Tua and Herbert, and so far it looks like we made a terrible decision.

I do agree that we should build the team, especially the Oline, however that does not excuse the fact that we had lightning in a bottle in Herbert, and we simply dropped the bottle. Those types of truly elite QBs don't come around very often. We missed our opportunity.

"hitman8 wrote:

The Burrow injury was a freak injury. Burrow doesn't have the injury history Tia has, and either way Burrow was not available at #5 when we picked Tua over Herbert. Like it or not the comparison will always be between Tua and Herbert, and so far it looks like we made a terrible decision.

I do agree that we should build the team, especially the Oline, however that does not excuse the fact that we had lightning in a bottle in Herbert, and we simply dropped the bottle. Those types of truly elite QBs don't come around very often. We missed our opportunity.

Hindsight is always 20/20 in the draft...could'a, should'a, would'a. I know...everybody here knows how high you are on Herbert. Got it. Whenever Tua is discussed, you always tend to revert back to Herbert. You're playing hindsight...but what about foresight?

“I know the injury’s there, but look at his body of work. Last year, we were talking about how many teams were tanking for Tua,” he said. “I truly believe Tua will be the second quarterback off the board, and I think he goes No. 3. The Lions will trade out of that spot to the Dolphins or Chargers, and I make the Chargers the favorite for Tua at 3.

Tua Tagovailoa’s draft stock drops dramatically at Las Vegas books | Las Vegas Review-Journal (reviewjournal.com)

This is just ONE of many sports writers who had Tua that high on their draft boards, even with his injury history. At least, according this this particular author's projection, we didn't trade up to get Tua. Many posters HERE who do their own research were wanting Tagovailoa. I actually wasn't one of them. I didn't want a quarterback...not yet. But to use hindsight as justification when there have been so many who have gotten it WRONG in the draft is just a strawman argument. Hell, none of the weak 1st 9 quarterback teams of the 2017 draft ever thought of of this kid named Mahomes.

See what I'm getting at?

Herbert had three good games this year.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Hindsight is always 20/20 in the draft...could'a, should'a, would'a. I know...everybody here knows how high you are on Herbert. Got it. Whenever Tua is discussed, you always tend to revert back to Herbert. You're playing hindsight...but what about foresight?

This is just ONE of many sports writers who had Tua that high on their draft boards, even with his injury history. At least, according this this particular author's projection, we didn't trade up to get Tua. Many posters HERE who do their own research were wanting Tagovailoa. I actually wasn't one of them. I didn't want a quarterback...not yet. But to use hindsight as justification when there have been so many who have gotten it WRONG in the draft is just a strawman argument. Hell, none of the weak 1st 9 quarterback teams of the 2017 draft ever thought of of this kid named Mahomes.

See what I'm getting at?

The problem is we get it wrong too damn often. You, I and many others didn't want Tua. I said before the draft he was too high of an injury risk and his skills and performance were really not that impressive playing with all stars in Alabama. I don't care how many idiot sport writers saw it differently, they were wrong, and I'm sick and tired of the dolphins repeatedly getting it wrong as well.

I'm with you 100% on the oline and building the rest of the team, but with the lack of judgement we have in the FO I just don't see us getting out of perennial mediocrity until we change leadership and get a GM with sound judgment.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Herbert had three good games this year.

Stop being ridiculous. How are you still debating this? Face it, Herbert is leagues above Tua in every way.

"hitman8 wrote:

Stop being ridiculous. How are you still debating this? Face it, Herbert is leagues above Tua in every way.

Herbert is seven spots higher in QB rating.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Herbert is seven spots higher in QB rating.

Do you even watch football?

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Just to check on team stats for dropped passes -- this is a subjective and unofficial stat, but Fox Sports keeps it. Most drops, by their count:

Dolphins 27
Panthers 25
Giants 20
Chiefs 19
Chargers 19
49ers 17
Lions 16
Rams 16
Jets 16
Steelers 16
Colts 15
Vikings 15
Bucs 15

— Greg Auman (@gregauman) November 16, 2021

This is a stat that should be mainstream. There is an old adage by receivers that if the ball hits your hands, you should catch it. For the Dolphins, how many of these 27 dropped passes resulted in drives being stopped? In potential touchdowns? In yards lost?

The Dolphins receiving corps has done little to help Tagovailoa out when he has thrown them the ball

"Sceeto wrote:

Do you even watch football?

Yes I watched Herbert lose at home to the 3-5 Vikings this weekend and do absolutely nothing.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

This is a stat that should be mainstream. There is an old adage by receivers that if the ball hits your hands, you should catch it. For the Dolphins, how many of these 27 dropped passes resulted in drives being stopped? In potential touchdowns? In yards lost?

The Dolphins receiving corps has done little to help Tagovailoa out when he has thrown them the ball

I remember drops by Waddle and Parker killing two drives against New England alone.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I remember drops by Waddle and Parker killing two drives against New England alone.

That Waddle one was a tough catch but still should have been made. That might have been a touchdown if he caught it or a little better throw.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

That Waddle one was a tough catch but still should have been made. That might have been a touchdown if he caught it or a little better throw.

Yeah, he was crossing full stride and the ball was half a second late. But he made up for it shortly after the drop.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Just to check on team stats for dropped passes -- this is a subjective and unofficial stat, but Fox Sports keeps it. Most drops, by their count:

Dolphins 27
Panthers 25
Giants 20
Chiefs 19
Chargers 19
49ers 17
Lions 16
Rams 16
Jets 16
Steelers 16
Colts 15
Vikings 15
Bucs 15

— Greg Auman (@gregauman) November 16, 2021

It's a very subjective stat. The Washington Post has been tallying this stat for decades and have been the most consistent. No surprise to see Waddle with 3, since he has been there most targeted. Parker the leader, with 1/2 the amount of targets.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

"Daytona Fin wrote:

It's a very subjective stat. The Washington Post has been tallying this stat for decades and have been the most consistent. No surprise to see Waddle with 3, since he has been there most targeted. Parker the leader, with 1/2 the amount of targets.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

Pretty sad when you consider that this was supposed to be the strength of our team. So much underperformance everywhere the first 8 games. Let’s hope the last 7 are like the last 2.

"cbrad wrote:

I don't think that's controversial, or at least it shouldn't be, though I'd add we need a new RB. Gaskin isn't going to cut it. Dolphins are 2nd worst in rushing Y/A and that's in large part due to no talent at RB. So IF Tua is the QB you build around, then yeah I'd prioritize OL and RB, not WR. Question is whether Tua is the QB you want, and for me a simple threshold is ending with a 95+ rating this year.

Running game is by and far a product of the Offensive line. Our product is not very good. Not that Gaskin is top tier but when they tackle you right when you get the ball, not much you can do.

"Finatik wrote:

Running game is by and far a product of the Offensive line. Our product is not very good. Not that Gaskin is top tier but when they tackle you right when you get the ball, not much you can do.

Agree, now there are obviously different tiers of running backs. A man like Derrick Henry is an MVP behind a good offensive line. However, look at Ezekiel Elliott last year. Dallas had injuries and issues to their O line last year and he ended up looking washed and having his worst statistical season as a pro. Dallas also sucked.

"Finatik wrote:

Running game is by and far a product of the Offensive line. Our product is not very good. Not that Gaskin is top tier but when they tackle you right when you get the ball, not much you can do.

This, as a general rule of thumb is accurate…but there are exceptions. We’ll get back to that in a second.

Remember the”other” LT…LaDanien Tomlinson? What a phenomenal running back! He ran over opponents left and right in San Diego. There was no doubt their offense’s success was based on his productivity. But what happened when he chased the money and went to the Jets? Their offensive line was so horrible that he virtually disappeared off the radar. This supports fully your stance on an OL being the base of any running back’s success.

But…look at the LEGENDARY Barry Sanders! An absolutely horrible offensive line! The defense was in the backfield by the time the ball was handed off to him and yet…I’m still mesmerized by the runs he pulled off.

Derrick Henry reminds me of a modern day Earl Campbell…big strong athletic back that would just run over you. With Henry though, the man gets STRONGER as the game goes on. That’s a generational running back that we won’t see for years to come.

If only we could build that offensive line…and get that Barry Sanders or Derrick Henry…what an offensive powerhouse we would be

Barry Sanders was an exceptional exception. IMO, the only running backs who escaped sold out defenses the way he could were probably Gale Sayers and OJ Simpson, both of whom could change direction for a homerun. Neither of them compared with Sanders, though. GOAT.

I gave TUa plenty of props. I called him a young Chad Pennington(when he played with us version) but Chad, and Tua both had similar major limitations which = Low ceiling. Maybe if we had the greatest GM that could spot every talented offensive player in the 3rd 4th and 5th type rounds and could put together the perfect (Tua Team) yeah. He doesn't have a great OL or reliable WRs that can also stay healthy (of course neither can he seemingly on that matter - That's called a trend. He's probably more likely to get re-injured at some point than not, at this... point)

Tua is a good stop gap, and he doesn't cause us to lose hope at a superbowl by himself.. If we magically fielded a better than average offense we'd have a chance to actually beat the ones who stole our glory... Fluffalo. Who is likely the favorite to win the superbowl at least in the AFC, havent checked odds or anything.