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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And now he has another new system. 3rd new one in 3 years. Sounds like Josh Rosen.
     
  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure the "Tua has a weak arm" narrative directly suggests there are some things that he cannot do. I'm too lazy to go back to see, but I don't think those posts indicated he hasn't thrown deep balls so much as they directly said he can't throw them. People are on record as saying that he won't succeed because he can't throw long. Maybe not you, but others, for sure.

    For the record: From my first post here, I have never said that Tua is a sure thing; only that he wasn't the problem last season. I maintain that stance. Consequently, I've posted content that points out both his strengths and weaknesses.
     
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  3. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That is so false it feels like gaslighting. You trying to break my mind?


     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not in the NFL yet.
     
  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    The difference though however is this new system is being tailored to Tua and his abilities…and not a system for a quarterback to have to adapt to.

    As for Rosen let’s be realistic…did anyone ever truly expect Rosen to become the full time starter in Miami? He was brought in as a backup to Fitzpatrick…whom the offense was tailored to with Chan Gailey.

    Rosen should have pulled a page out of Elway or Eli Manning’s playbook and refuse to go to Arizona…let himself get traded to a different team. Would it have made a difference in his career? Maybe, maybe not but he was definitely doomed from jump street being drafted by the Cardinals
     
  6. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    True on the tailoring but also true my statement. On the offense, to change the scheme every year has profound effects.
     
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  7. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Especially when the second scheme was a nebulous nightmare. The dual coordinators were a swing and a miss last season. I think it helped Tua's development, but I seriously believe it set every other offensive player (besides Waddle and Gesicki) back a year. One of McDaniel's most important tasks will be to make sure some of the younger offensive players unlearn bad habits.
     
  8. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Oh I agree. I knew there was a problem last season when it was announced dual-coordinators. I just couldn’t believe we couldn’t have bright in an OC that was going to tailor an offense to the strength of the quarterback you drafted and was going to be the full time starter. That was Miami’s dumpster fire last season.
     
  9. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe he was fired for that.
     
  10. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I just saw this on Twitter. You beat here to post it. Wonder if he's a board member?
     
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Think about it this way. If someone argued with you that the sky is purple, would you argue with them after mentioning that it's actually light blue? Or would you just think to yourself, that dude must be colorblind...there's no reason to insult him.

    There's no reason to argue with the opposing view on most things in life...especially the stuff where you'll never convince the other guy in 1,000 years. It's much easier to just accept that they're misinformed and may require special glasses.
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The mistake we frequently make on message boards and Twitter is believing that any amount of logic is capable of changing someone's mind. We can have discourse, but if we think we're actually debating - where someone wins by proving his point - we're fooling ourselves. The only way to change the minds of Tua's detractors is by him meeting their subjective levels of successful performance.

    Unfortunately, sometimes perception becomes our reality. That's why the sky is purple if you believe it is.
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You've been happy with Tua's overall performance the past two seasons? Like Top 5 pick worthy?
     
  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Am I happy with it? That's complicated. It may sound like a way to avoid answering your question, but it's the truth for me to say that I'm not unhappy with his performance. Let's just say that he hasn't given me reason to doubt that he could easily be our best QB after Marino after he hangs them up, but he's a helluva long way from doing that.

    I'll say it once more: It's one thing to expect someone to play like a top 5 pick in a good situation. Decent line. Good stable of weapons. Health. Supportive coaches. No global pandemic altering every aspect of life, including preparation. Tua had none of that to start his career.

    I never said here, or anywhere else, that Tua was going to be the next great Miami QB. The title of this thread is "Tua Is Not The Problem" and I started by saying that I can't say he's the solution, but I can say that he's not the problem. None of the things I listed above are likely to hold him back this season (beyond a potentially mediocre-bad OL; but Burrow and Herbert had scrub OLs).

    With that being said, my biggest concern for him is his durability. He did good to move the pocket and evaluate rushes after he returned from injury, but if our OL is horrible again, he's almost certainly going to be injured again. And it's 100% fair to consider injuries when deciding whether a QB is good or not. Like with Tannehill (at least, in Miami), the best ability is availability.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What Tua did last year with the worst line in the league, the ultra fast reads and quick releases, the way he avoided pressure- yeah, I saw a potential top-5 quarterback that was limited in options on a horrible offense. Read into that what you will, but I think there's only a handful of QBs in the league that could have performed better on the 2021 Miami Dolphins team.

    Unfortunately, I would say Burrow & and maybe Herbert could have produced more for Miami last year. And that's the whole rub, two guys we shoulda, woulda, coulda had if things played out different.
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't disagree...but I also understand those who think he looked worse than he should.

    I think that is almost completely due to the organization not being honest with the fans about his actual injury status over the past two seasons. But that sane injury status has me incredibly concerned.
     
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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I wouldn't. I think Burrow would have done just as bad. He is not that great at avoiding sacks.
     
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  20. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Rosen’s performance is somewhere between Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russel after you adjust for era. You can’t blame all of that on poor circumstances. Talent has a habit of rising to its natural level.
     
  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Short answer? Yes. He’s 7-5 as a starter.

    Long answer? Am I happy with the overall performance of the Miami offensive unit? Not by a long shot.

    That’s the thing about football. It’s the ONLY true TEAM sport. No one position can execute their job without the other 10 executing theirs…and if anyone here were to say the other 10 players played to their 100% potential with Tagovailoa at the helm, then I want some of the drugs you’re smoking.
     
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  22. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Burrow is obviously a better QB but he would probably be in a wheelchair after 2 years of Dolphin offensive lines
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You could be right, he absolutely can't evade like Tua can. But that was sort of my bigger point as well- we shouldn't grade QB's in dysfunctional offenses since it really doesn't tell us anything.

    Like Tua can't go deep. I can say with certainty that Tua's a top-1 quarterback in the league going deep on plays with minimal protection, minimal separation, and a sub-3.5 second release. But what's that mean, LOL? Quarterbacks shouldn't be asked to do that consistently so it's not a real stat.
     
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  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’ve said many times past…with how horrible our OL has been, you could put ANY quarterback in the backfield and they would look like crap
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, the problem is, Tua wasn't even close to ready the first year, but they played him anyway. Then reports are now coming it saying in year two he had multiple injuries, including a broken finger on his throwing hand. And they played him. So, best case scenario, Tua looked average at best, but that was because injuries were holding him back. Great. Except that's his first two seasons hampered by injuries. That's not a great predictor for success.
     
  26. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Tua is a different cat. He never had a bad word about his coach or his situation, but I'd bet the mortgage there were some problems between him and Flo that were irreconcilable. Miami has a great communications team and although I'm skeptical about some of the stuff that's come out since Flo was termed, I think they did a great job of presenting the image of sunshine and rainbows when the actual mood was much worse. Ross alluded to it when he fired a winning coach, but nobody outside had a clue. Let's hope McDaniel's completely different approach yields an improvement in performance.

    I'm not worried about Tua's hip. Seeing him get creamed by Buffalo's DL was more concerning to me because I'm surprised he made it back to play at all. I'm holding my breath and saying a prayer every time he takes a blindside hit because I don't think he's likely to get up from the next one. And I'm not even worried about a recurrent injury, because his history reads like a medical textbook. It's always something different.
     
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  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that video were true, we would have paid the Rodgers rate this off-season and been a Super Bowl favorite.
     
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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well, we weren't planning on losing a couple picks. The plan could have been to draft. Who knows man.
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  31. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I've given up even watching ESPN/GMFB/Cowherd on this. It's been the same repeated talking points for months. The lack of original thought or commentary is mind-numbing. And I get it, no football is being played so until that happens no-one will really know anything for sure. But how many times do they have to repeat the same stuff? Put some work in and dig and find a new angle, find something interesting to talk about.
     
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  32. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Cowherd is now a borderline Tua stan. I find it amazing how emotionally invested these guys are in making sure we hear them. Very few of them will say "we'll see how he does; I have my doubts" as opposed to almost shouting "hell no! He can't make the throws and his QBR is trash. Don't ask me about this bum again until he's replaced". It's almost as if they're rooting against him (which they are, because their cred is on the line after taking such a hard stance.
     
  33. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Cowherd flip flops. Whatever happens he'll be able to go back and say "I told you so." Really struggle to watch him...so I don't any more. :D
     
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  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    He picked up Jim Rome's shtick and carried it a couple of miles further down the line. I can't listen to him on the radio or watch him on TV. And Joy, who is a Dolphins fan, is the biggest hater on the air. I understand her frustration, but her act got old a long time ago. I gave up on her pod after one episode.

    But Joy's fandom notwithstanding, Cowherd and others like him know that there's no such thing as bad attention. They make incendiary comments specifically to anger fans. Then, they point to their comments, mentions, clicks, and retweets in their next negotiations. They don't care if people are angry, only that they're paying attention.
     
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  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Indeed. Which is why I don't bother clicking any more. These guys aren't about to have a miraculous change to their act.
     
  36. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    Sadly we've started copying this form of media personalities over here in the UK over the last few years. Just say the most insane thing to come into your head at any one time and then sit back and watch as you get millions of interactions from people wanting to call you an idiot or worse. It's the old thought of "All publicity is good publicity.".

    In my sleep deprived state today, I've been catching up with some media clips of people discussing the fins and one I saw from PFF made an interesting statement on Tua where they compared him to Jimmy G but with one important caveat. They basically said that Jimmy G has played like Jimmy G because that's who he is, Tua has played like Jimmy G because that's the only way he's been able to play with the state of our O-Line during the last few years.
     
  37. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I just came from the Yahoo! homepage, where there's a headline that says Preseason Keeps Getting Uglier For Tagavailoa, based on the reporting from camp today. Did I miss something, or has it been an ugly preseason for him? By most accounts, he looks primed to break out, but according to the Yahoo! sports staff, today was the worst day of a bunch of really bad practices.

    It doesn't mean anything, but it kills me how the narrative creates the perception. Anybody who paid less attention to training camp would get the impression this dude is about to be cut.
     
  38. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, and it turns out they are working on the desperation situations. 40 seconds to go 70 yards, and so forth. I don't think the national talking heads will change narratives until they have too.

    Brand new offense, poor to acceptable play previously, and first 4 games seem like the toughest stretch... I should be reserving judgment till I see how he plays after week 8. I'm not though. I'm all in on Tua and am going to be a sad, sad, boy if he doesn't ball out.

    Fandom! :clap:
     
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  39. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    This will be what they're referring to:



    But a bad Camp?

    Nonsense.
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The past few years, I've looked at pre-season turnovers differently. For instance, Thompson went his first week at camp with no picks. Is that good though? Or does that mean he was choosing the safest passes instead of letting it rip? In practice, these guys should be letting it rip and making occasional ill-advised throws to see what's possible with each receiver.

    So three picks by Tua yesterday? I could care less. Let it rip Tua and see what ya got.

    As others have said, the talking heads don't know what to make of "Salty Tua" throwing with velocity and looking like a different QB from the past two seasons. So they're grasping at straws to make their narrative still fit.
     
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