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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    He was an average to above average quarterback statistically in those early years with those guys.
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What's unrealistic? I wasn't psyched about the horrific, weak throw into triple coverage in the first that he was lucky wasn't intercepted, and I'm not going to go overboard in praise on an easy pitch and catch because of a blown coverage.

    I can be happy for Tua and the team, and happy for the win, while also simultaneously believing that those throws weren't impressive.
     
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  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You're being unrealistic because you think EVERY QB doesn't have throws like that once in a while.
     
  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they do have bad throws once in a while, but they also havy many impressive throws on a regular basis. Tua's throws in general are not impressive from an arm talent perspective. Other than great anticipation and timing, he has no elite arm traits.

    He can't throw long or outside the numbers unless the reciever is wide open or it's a blown coverage.
     
  5. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, only the very good ones do.
     
  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and Tua does not have many impressive throws on a regular basis, which is why I'm not sold on him. Throwing floaters up to wide open recievers is not so impressive in my book.
     
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  7. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    That's the great part about having those weapons. He doesn't HAVE to be a very good QB to win games.
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No. I'm looking only at Tua, and the 4th quarter. You're arguing that every QB gets those some time. So aren't you arguing that they weren't that impressive, if every QB gets then?

    I agree, every QB is going to get some of those, especially if you've got Hill. So I don't tend to factor throws like those into an evaluation of QB skill.
     
  9. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Anyone who subscribed to that notion is an idiot. In a pass there are 2 elements…the quarterback who throws the ball and the receiver who catches it. There has to be talent on both sides of that pass.

    If you go all the way back to Tagovailoa’s days at Alabama, he’s shown he has the talent to throw the ball. He did it there and he’s been able to do it with the Dolphins. It’s just this year, the organization must’ve finally realized there are 11 players on offense and not just the quarterback. Miami has finally fielded an actual offense rather than just a quarterback and, “eh, the rest is good enough” team.
     
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  10. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    So much talk about busted coverages, none about headfakes, quick progressions, and accurate high point MY GUY OR BUST balls to cracraft, Gesicki, and waddle.
    Why? Because it doesnt fit the agenda.

    i expect this disingenuous **** from the football pundits. But you people posit yourselves as dolphins fans. And rather than admit “well ****, the kid looks much better than when he had limited weapons, subpar offensive coaching and historically bad protection” its a litany of nonsensical crappola about what he cant do 20 something games into his career as starter because you cant FATHOM that your keen football insights are wrong.

    so in essence, you think you know more than Mike McDaniel, who holds a contrary opinion to you on QB1. Ok. Sure.
     
  11. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I saw something really interesting yesterday. I dont know how to share it here, but on an NFL memes page on IG they posted a video of a bunch of throws from Tua on Sunday with the video reversed to make it look like he was a righty instead of a lefty. The caption was referring to the fact of if you reverse the video Tua's passes look just like those of a normal right handed QB. Now apparently they didn't speed up the video to prove the point to mock him, but I can't be certain. Either way though; it sure was interesting to watch and made me wonder if there is a bit of an optical illusion there. Coulda been faked and sped up too I guess, but track it down and see for yourselves what u think.
     
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  12. BigBadBrett

    BigBadBrett New Member

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    https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiurzciDMMG/?igshid=NTlmMWMyMzg=
     
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  13. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I think there is no disagreement that Tua doesn't have the strongest arm, but when you have everything else like he does it doesn't matter.
    And I'm gonna go there, neither did Drew Brees or Chad Pennington, heck Joe Montana didn't possess a cannon.

    I flat reject any argument about his arm strength as a reason why he won't be a successful QB.
     
  14. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I saw the same thing. I've also seen this one from someone who reversed a lot of right handed QB's to throw left handed. It's funny how a lot of their trajectories look like Tua's.



    Also, haven't been here in a few years, nice to see a lot of the old names still posting.
     
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  15. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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  16. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Nope, despite your attempt to twist what I was saying like this is some game show and you can "win" if you try to trick me into agreeing with you, the fact is, every QB makes a stupid throw once in a while, sometimes once or twice a game. The fact that Tua threw a couple bad throws out of FIFTY doesn't make his game against the Ravens any less remarkable.
     
    Phil Hutchings likes this.
  18. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Cracroft seems to always be open.
     
  19. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Tin Indian likes this.
  20. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Im ready to revise my Tua ceiling to 6th-12th best qb in the league annually as what he can get to in this offense with his skillset. He will be no worse than 18th in this system in a bad year.

    You guys agree? Where do you have him peaking? His floor?
     
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  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If Tua can be ~6th in the league on average he would be playing at the level a SB winning QB plays in the year they win the SB, about 1 standard deviation above the mean. That would be a tremendous level of play, enough to call him "elite" if done consistently. Pretty high ceiling there, but I guess it seems like anything is possible after last Sunday. I sure hope he ends our post-Marino search for a QB.
     
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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think his ceiling is #1 with everyone nitpicking every little fault he has while breaking records for passer rating
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Where have I said it wasn't remarkable? I can point to a bunch of throws in that game that were not great, regardless of the end result. The least impressive throws, to me, were the two deep balls to Hill, that everyone seems to be gaga over.

    Any QB in the league, or division 1 ball, should be able to make those two throws. The 4th quarter does not erase all my concerns. Super happy for you if it did. Tua needs to show up consistently throughout this season for me to be comfortable with him long term.
     
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  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's leadership on display right there. :up:
     
  26. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    GhostarmofMarino is that you?
     
  27. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Now you can close the thread

     
  28. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    I’m not one for loud hot takes.
    But this is an interesting theory and you can take it further than his 3 specific examples.

    Josh Allen couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn and was the most inaccurate QB in the NFL his first two seasons. Diggs showed up and everything changed.

    Brady was nothing special his last two seasons in New England and looked to be on his last legs. Goes to Tampa with pro bowlers Evans and Godwin and Tom Brady is Tom Brady again.

    I wouldn’t say that receivers can make a QB great. But I would say a QB will almost never elevate his game to elite when he is throwing to a bunch of donkeys. Rodgers is still considered top 10, but there is zero expectation for him to have an elite season this year because he has no weapons.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022 at 3:43 AM
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  29. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I've always thought his ceiling was somewhere in the top 10 and his floor would be around 20-25 range, still a starter but someone you would like to replace. The fact that he hasn't looked like a complete bust his first 2 years (to me anyway) with the situation he's had (injury, coach that was actively trying to sabotage him, 5 turnstyles in front of him, WR's that couldn't separate etc) is actually amazing.

    Now he has a coach that believes in him, he has WR's that can get separation and it looks like his OL can actually hold a block for 2 seconds I honestly expected him to be talked about being a top 10 QB after this season. Anything else would be a disappointment for me. Sure he doesn't have a massive arm, isn't the most athletic etc but it's also really, really hard to find a QB with his accuracy and touch.

    Maybe I'm just a blind homer though and all the talking heads are right. Guess we will find out this season. If he craps the bed this week against Buffalo all the talking heads will be back to saying Teddy will be starting before the season end.
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, I was resnor on FH, and I've been resnor since we left FH and started this site.
     
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  31. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    Deep Dive into how McDaniel has improved Tua.

     
  32. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Been watching a lot of older Dolphin games from Marino's heyday. You know all those highlight reel TD passes? Most of them were to blown coverages, just like the ones to Tyreek Hill last Sunday. Great QB's recognize blown coverages and take advantage of them.
     
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  33. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  34. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Active Member

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    Comparisons with Justin Herbert. That's how you know a fan is truly a homer.
     
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  35. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    A Ravens fan is a Dolphins homer.
     
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  36. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Nice tweets, but let's all ignore the fact Tua played at Alabama while Herbert played at Oregon, and let's all ignore the fact the dolphins have won most of those games because of great defense, not because of Tua.
     
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  37. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone here takes the win percentage stuff seriously or thinks Tua is better than Herbert but its funny to see how it gets a certain group upset.
     
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  38. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, so a quarterback's success can be affected by the team around him? Nice to know.

    **Takes notes**
     
  39. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    It thinks it's time.to stop debating and let the season play out.So far Tua has looked Ok week one and spectacular game 2.Still have 15 games to go.
    I was against drafting Tua and still need to see more but I am cautiously optimistic!Last week got me extremely excited to see what comes next.
    First half I was thinking Tua sucks and the same old dolphins.Now can we truly beat the bills is a legit question.Havent been this excited in 25 years.
    Let's go Fins!!
     
  40. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'm in the same boat, except I wasn't totally against drafting him, just cautious about it because of his injury. I haven't liked any of the ideas the FO had in the interim to replace him, though, and since what came out about his relationship with Flores, I'm willing to give Tua a chance with a coach who's actually trying to gameplan around him. We'll see what happens.
     
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