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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
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  2. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Dolphins will have the same amount of wins as the Herberts after this weekend.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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  4. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Tua has a better record as a starter than Herbert. But that doesn't matter because Herbert is not the problem in Los Angeles.
     
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  5. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    From espn.com:
    https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dol...provement-has-helped-fuel-dolphins-win-streak

    How Tua Tagovailoa's improvement has helped fuel Dolphins' win streak
    6:00 AM ET
    Marcel Louis-Jacques
    ESPN
    MIAMI -- Tua Tagovailoa's pocket collapsed before any of his receivers' routes could fully develop.

    The Miami Dolphins quarterback executed a play-action fake against the New York Jets in Week 11, but quickly found Jets defensive end John Franklin-Myers giving chase. It was a familiar sight for Tagovailoa; Miami's offensive line ranks dead last in the NFL in pass block win rate -- it's part of the reason the Dolphins have run play-action on a league-high 45% of plays since Week 10.

    But also considering his familiarity with facing pressure, Tagovailoa knew how to evade it. He stepped up in the pocket and hurled a pass that traveled 44.5 air yards to wide-open receiver Mack Hollins, who had slipped past a busted coverage for a 64-yard touchdown.

    It's a microcosm of Tagovailoa's maturation in his second NFL season.

    "I would say I learned a lot more being able to play and then also being on the sideline," Tagovailoa said. "Understanding a little more of the protections, understanding where guys need to be within their route distribution and then also for myself, stepping up in the pocket, maneuvering my way throughout the pocket and then finding the open guys."

    Get an unprecedented first-hand account of each of Tom Brady's Super Bowl appearances. Sign up now to stream Man in the Arena: Tom Brady on ESPN+.

    Miami is on a four-game winning streak, in large part due to a defense that ranks second in the NFL in expected points added over the past four weeks. But Tagovailoa has done his part after a rough start to his season.

    He was knocked out of the Dolphins' game against Buffalo in Week 2 with fractured ribs, missing the team's next three games. He also missed the game against the Houston Texans in Week 9 with the fractured finger on his throwing hand, which kept him out the following week against Baltimore until he entered the game in the second half in relief of an injured Jacoby Brissett.

    Tagovailoa threw for 158 yards in the second half against the Ravens and scored the game-sealing TD on a 1-yard dive.

    The good vibes from that win have continued. Over the past two games, he has completed a league-leading 84.4% of his 64 passes with three touchdowns and one interception. On Sunday, he picked apart the NFL's best pass defense in a 33-10 win against the Carolina Panthers, completing 27 of 31 passes for 230 yards and a touchdown. That came after a similar performance against the Jets -- 27-of-33 for 273 yards, with two touchdowns and an interception.

    "He's getting better every time he steps out on the field. I think he made a lot of good decisions today," Dolphins coach Brian Flores said after the Jets game. "I thought we moved the ball pretty efficiently, especially in the second half. ... Tua is leading the way."

    Factoring in Miami's struggles in pass protection, Tagovailoa has had to get the ball out at the third-fastest rate in the NFL -- 2.53 seconds, trailing only Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger. He's been excellent when he's been able to make quick throws, throwing for six touchdowns and no interceptions when getting the ball out within 2.5 seconds, according to ESPN Stats & Info.

    And although Tagovailoa's 5.25 air yards per attempt since Week 10 ranks last in the NFL among qualified passers, his playmakers have averaged 6.1 yards after the catch in that same span -- the seventh-highest mark in the league.


    Rookie receiver Jaylen Waddle, Tagovailoa's former teammate at Alabama and his go-to receiver, has 17 receptions on 19 targets over the past two games for 202 yards (11.9 per catch) and a touchdown.

    On Sunday, Tagovailoa found him over the middle on a second-quarter throw against the Panthers. Because Tagovailoa hit him in stride, Waddle turned a 20-yard catch into a 57-yarder that put Miami at the Panthers' 14-yard line and led to a rushing TD for running back Myles Gaskin four plays later.

    The four-game winning streak has put the Dolphins (5-7) back in the AFC playoff discussion, and their next two games are at home -- on Sunday (1 p.m. ET, Fox) against the New York Giants (4-7) and Dec. 19 against the New York Jets (3-8). The defense has clearly carried the Dolphins during this stretch, allowing 11.5 points per game. But the efforts on that side of the ball would be for naught if the offense didn't hold up its end -- it's the complementary football for which every team longs.

    "We look like the team that we kind of wanted to be at the beginning of this year," Tagovailoa said after Sunday's win. "You know, it looked like a lot of guys went out there confident knowing what to expect offensively, defensively, and in the kicking game. I would say this is the best that we've played complementary football yet, but there's still some plays that were left out there on the field that we can fix."
     
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  6. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I found this one to be pretty interesting. Man our rush epa and pass block win rate is so bad.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    If I were Deshaun Watson, I would want to be an Eagle.

    If I were Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers I would try to become a Bronco.
     
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  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Very cool stat! Might not be super-accurate, but very cool anyway!
     
  10. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    And now, the Republican response:


    They clearly had what Keyshawn Johnson had at the bar:
     
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Edelman caught Brady's left ball in his mouth for years.

    Marshall sounds like he doesn't watch one minute of football on Sunday's.

    Simms is not shy about saying he loves his football players with large asses and thick thighs. He doesn't care about you unless you're 6'5"+ 220+.
     
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  12. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Tua doesn't have a "superpower". Okay. I'll take a guy capable of delivering two games with 80%+ accuracy (and two wins) if he's the football equivalent of Olive Oyl as long as he finishes the game and is ready the next week. If you asked anybody in that video about Burrow and Herbert, they'll start dropping stats, even though many of Tua's numbers put him in the top third of the league and his won/loss record is comparable to both. Ultimately, there's no objective reason to dog the kid so it comes down to narrative.

    And Johnson's suggesting that Tua is a stiff because Ross & Co. tried to upgrade is funny because Watson is a top 5 QB and most teams would prefer him over their current guys. Pretending that is proof that Tua's a bust is ridiculous. Really hoping he continues to change minds.
     
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  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    There's a new vibe around this team since the trade deadline. Remember the video of Elandon Roberts telling Tua the coaches were holding him back? That was four weeks ago. I'm hoping it's going to translate into chemistry and better performance as we come down the stretch.


     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm starting to see the glimmer that my instincts were off on Tua. I like that his ypa is second. But that's just this month, right? So it might not be as big a deal.

    But I so hope I was wrong about Tua. His teammates seem to love him, so that tells me he can't be the problem.
     
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  15. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehills best passer rating for a season as a Dolphin was his 5th when he had a 93.5 rating with 13 games played. That was the year Ajayi went off for 1200 yards, and he was throwing to Landry, a healthy Parker, and a younger faster Stills.

    Tua is currently on a team with the poorest pass blocking OL that I can remember Miami having, has no run game, and is throwing to Mike G and Waddle. His rating for this season is currently a 94.7 and for his last 5 games is 102.6. Maybe give the man some time to continue to develop and an average OL? Look at what he is doing. The Tua critics are the ones cherry picking stats now. I honestly struggle with the logic of Dolphin fans that don't like Tua's future, given Tua's current production. Because he's a weak armed "game manager", a better offensive team will somehow make it harder for him? In his 2nd year he is far and away the best QB Miami has had since 13. With very little improvement his stats are those of a to 10 QB. And, he is showing that on one of the worst offensive teams I can remember. If there was an expansion draft you'd protect 3 offensive players. Tua, Waddle, and Giesiki. That's it.
     
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    No lies detected. When the argument against keeping him boils down to "he can't throw the ball 70 yards" or "his own team tried to trade him for a top 5 QB", it's kind of obvious they're just arguing because they're dug in on the other side. If Tua has another good game this week, they're going to say "Daniel Jones didn't play", which makes no sense but clearly, logic isn't part of the argument.

    BTW: I respect every poster who stated that they intuitively don't think he's the Guy. You may not be able to quantify your instincts and IMO, you don't need to. But it cheapens the debate to come up with straw man arguments.
     
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  17. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You know what? This sort of post is problematic. I just said that I'm cautiously optimistic that my thoughts on Tua, going back years, are maybe wrong.

    Then you want to bring up Tannehill, and Tua haters cherry picking stats, WHEN THE STAT I REFERRED BACK TO is a stat for one month of this season. A one month stat is meaningless.

    Listen, I was a strong Tannehill supporter because I believed that PHYSICALLY he had the abilities to be elite. I don't see elite qualities in Tua.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have a feeling that he wasn't referring to you directly- even though he quoted you.
     
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  20. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    People on this website want Chris Simms to be the Dolphins GM.
     
  21. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Chris Simms has been spot on with the majority of his player evals, Tua included. I don't exactly agree with his take regarding Taysom Hill vs Tua, but Hill having a bad game doesn't negate Simms record of evaluating players.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hence why I said his post is problematic.
     
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  23. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Some was directed at resnor, some was continuing the discussion of the thread. The cherry picking clearly wasn't, because THE STAT THAT resonor REFERRED BACK TO was pro Tua. That was directed and the cherry picking prior posters.

    I'm not sure what you found problematic? I was giving reasons why you should be strongly optimistic. Tua is doing more faster with less than Tannehill did in Miami. Tannehill was the only other QB Miami has had since Marino that even showed potential to be good. Tua has played with absolutely elite accuracy, and an absolutely elite ablity to deal with pressure. Not shown that he is PHYSICALLY capable of playing with elite abilities. But, he has played at undeniably elite levels with the Dolphins offense as it is. I'm trying to think of anything I would say Ryan showed that was elite about his play on the field. Not his PHYSICAL potential while in Miami, but game play. Arm strength, I think. He could zing it with the best. His elite play came mostly later with the Titans.

    Tua hasn't done it for long, but he hasn't played for long. The NFL record for games with an 80% or better completion percentage in a single year is 4. Tua now has 3 in 7 starts this year, with one of those starts being the Buffalo game he was knocked out of. I am pretty stoked to see how he finishes the season. It's exciting and fun to have optimism. I want all Dolphin fans to have exciting fun. Join us.
     
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  24. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Hill being a poor QB does and he is.

    There is nothing wrong with him being wrong about Hill though. Even the best get it wrong sometimes but he should admit it instead of doubling down with that kind idiocy. He is unbelievably wrong on Hill without getting into anything Tua related.

    And his QB rankings from before the season started are pretty comical looking at them now.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, for whatever reason it didn't come across like that. Lol. I'm cautiously optimistic with what I'm seeing from Tua. Last year left a bad taste in my mouth, but that very probably was because the media, team, coaches, pundits, all claimed that Tua was 100%. I just gotta see enough to overcome my lack of excitement watching him at Alabama.
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was in the same boat on draft day- I knew Tua was a lock but I was highly skeptical for the exact reasons you've shared in the past. I think the difference between last season and this season are large enough though to where it's pretty obvious he wasn't ready to start last year for whatever reason (rehabbing the leg, comfort in the offense, etc).

    It's kinda funny- he went from one of the best lines in college football with 5 1st round skill players around him (including Najee at RB), and now he's in one of the worst offenses in the entire league. Yet he pretty much looks the same with the poise in the pocket and the great deliveries. Just a super smart, humble, likeable kid and I have a feeling that the sky's the limit for him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    OK this is cool. After Burrow had an off day today this is how the 3 QBs from the 2020 draft stack up by passer rating so far this year:

    Burrow: 98.3
    Herbert: 98.2
    Tua: 96.1

    All compared to a league average (right now) of 91.4. So all are doing well in their 2nd year, and you can't say production-wise Tua was a worse pick than the other two. This is so far too close to call. We'll see how they end up.
     
  28. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Herberts got lucky today
     
  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You're ridiculous man. So Herbert has been lucky for two years now?
     
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  30. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Wow he's very defensive against Tua. Unless I missed something
     
  31. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I will still take Herbert over both Tua and Burrow. I was watching both the chargers game on CBS and the dolphins game simultaneously on stream since CBS decided not to broadcast the dolphins.

    Watching Herbert it's just obvious he is another level of talent. While Tua is dink and dunking it all day Herbert is taking big shots downfield and stretching the defense.

    The chargers put up 34 points on offense against a better team than the Giants. Tua is playing well within a system that is designed to hide his limitations, but if we had to do the 2020 draft again there should be no question Herbert should have been the pick.
     
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  32. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Well, bless your heart. LOL.
     
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  33. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    It's not the dinking and dunking. I'm OK with that IF Tua could hit WR deep on 9 routes ala Brady. Today he threw 2 of them and Parker had to make incredible adjustments to go back and get the ball. If you watched him at Alabama, he had about 45 yards of functional (air yards) arm strength, where he could hit receivers in stride. That's with college hash marks, though... In the NFL, his functional arm strength may be about 40 yards. Of course he has to set up almost perfectly or he noodle arms it.

    These last two weeks have been encouraging. Not as confident in him as I was to start the year, but I feel better than I did a few weeks ago... Without all the drops, he's probably around 300 yards and maybe an extra TD today.

    edit: Not rhetorical, but can anyone think of QB's whose arm got stronger during their career? Not just a little bit, but noticeably? Obviously Brady, but he's on PED's (IMO).
     
  34. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Those are designed back shoulder passes that Parker is supposed to do exactly that.
     
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  35. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    If you say so. All I know is that if Justin Herbert threw those balls, they'd go through the defensive backs like a hot knife through butter and be positioned so Parker could moonwalk into the end zone from 80 yards out. Tua can't do that.

    Justin Herbert is the GOAT.
    If you spell "J-U-S-T-I-N-H-E-R-B-E-R-T" in Scrabble, you win. Forever.
    Justin Herbert chews a cup full of nails instead of drinking coffee in the morning.
    If Justin Herbert travelled to an alternate universe and played against another version of himself, they'd both win. By a lot.
    The Dinosaurs made the mistake of playing Justin Herbert once. That's why there are no more dinosaurs.
    Justin Herbert's sweat is a cure for cancer. It's too bad Justin Herbert never breaks a sweat.
    Justin Herbert was removed from Madden when every pass he threw was a touchdown. When the developers asked him about the glitch, he responded: "That was no glitch."
    If paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper, what beats all 3 at the same time? Justin Herbert.
    [​IMG]
     
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  36. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    And he would have done it flat footed.
     
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  37. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, in South Florida...

    The Dolphins took a team retreat on their bye week and everybody went to the beach to relax. Shortly after they got there, someone began screaming and everybody's attention was drawn to an overturned raft about 50 yards in the water. Lifeguards couldn't be found and it caused a panic when folks realized there were two children and a puppy thrashing around in the surf. If help didn't get there soon, they were all sure to drown.

    Tua Tagavailoa saw the situation and asked his teammates to excuse him. He then calmly walked on the water until he reached the drowning party, bent over and lifted one kid over his shoulder, gave him the puppy to hold and then put the second child under his arm before settling them down and walking back to shore, where their anxious parents greeted him excitedly. Tua went back to the Dolphins' camp, where he was received as a hero.

    The next day, I got on my laptop and navigated to thephins.com, where the first (and busiest) post in the Miami Dolphins Forum was titled "We Need A QB Who Can Swim".
     
  38. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, if they're down to whining that Parker, of all receivers, is getting back shoulder passes in stead of go routes... this thread is over. Tua killed it with his play. The arguments against are cult level reality denials. It's just going to be for the LoLs now.
     
  39. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I'll say this, Tua is shutting up a lot of people. Especially on here. There are a few holding strong on their stance towards him, but other than that it's been crickets for the last few weeks. At this point people are reduced to starting arguments over Chris Simms evaluating quarterbacks just because Chris Simms doesn't like Tua. Quite comical if you as me.
     
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  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    This was PFF's OL rating for the Dolphins in Week 10:

    32. MIAMI DOLPHINS (NO CHANGE)
    Best-graded: G Michael Deiter | 61.6
    Worst-graded: T Liam Eichenberg | 46.2

    Miami’s offensive line is on pace to surrender a historical volume of pressure, despite the offense trying to protect the group with RPOs and a fast average time to throw. The Dolphins have surrendered 152 total pressures, 30 more than any other line, and therefore possess the league’s lowest pass-blocking efficiency metric.

    Four players have surrendered at least 20 total pressures, with three of them tying for the team lead (37). Miami’s offensive line is a complete mess that is tainting any evaluation of quarterback Tua Tagovailoa.

    NFL Week 10 Offensive Line Rankings | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF
     

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