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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Firstly your point was that the offense would be the same as last year’s without Hill and Waddle, even though we had Waddle last year.

    Secondly, if Hill and Waddle make such a big difference, why did Bridgewater, a proven NFL average QB, struggle so badly with the same receivers, same scheme, and same coaching?
     
  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Give it up, you lost the argument. All the videos posting are saying things are wide open because of the WR's Hill and Waddle, yet you continue to insist it has nothing to do with them. If you think defenses would continue to play the exact same way, other WR would get open just as quick, I really can't help you understand.

    Bridgewater did not have a week of practice, nor has he had the entire weeks of practice that Tua has had. Again I never said anything against Tua, you are making it all about Tua.
     
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  3. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  4. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  5. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  6. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Your argument is that the offense would be as bad as last year’s without Hill and Waddle. When not throwing to Hill and Waddle last year Tua had a passer rating of 84.5. Your argument is that Tua would have the same/similar rating this year as last year.
    Pull the other one, it plays jingle bells,

    https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.c...eed-mike-mcdaniel-offense-quick-release-2022/



     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The point is if you protect Tua he will make anyone look good..The numbers change relative to the talent level of the skill players he's throwing to.
     
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  8. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Maybe I’m reading your post wrong, but it sounds as if you’re saying take away Waddle…take away Hill, McDaniel would still run the EXACT offensive scheme he’s running with them.

    If Waddle and Hill were to go down, I believe McDaniel knows you can’t run the EXACT scheme tailored to their skills set, but it would still be a similar scheme tailored to the remaining skill players.

    Would Tagovailoa’s production fall? It all depends on what you consider production. A 50 yard completion down the middle of the field to Hill/Waddle and a 5 yard air pass to Mostert that he takes another 45 yards still counts as a 50 yard pass.

    I tire of this Tua debate. The Dolphins have not had a potent OFFENSE since the days of Marino, Duper, Clayton and Moore. After the Marks Brothers departure, the Dolphins (and Marino) did what they could with what they had, but it always fell short. The same can be said with Tagovailoa. He did WHAT he could with WHAT he had last season.

    Quarterbacks can’t do it ALL on their own. They have to have something to work with and the Dolphins have finally woken up and realized the offense is more than just the man under center….and we know have a nuclear offense that we haven’t seen in nearly 40 years…and teams are terrified to play us.

    Everyone needs to quit their nitpicking and making irrelevant comparisons and enjoy the ride.
     
  9. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  10. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Not a Tua debate at all. You and Pauly are making it one. IT is insane to imply you take away 2 of the best WR's in the game and the offense of any team would stay the same, produce the same.
     
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    It's a silly argument. The whole point at the beginning of this thread was that Tua wasn't the problem because he needed help to succeed. Now, are some suggesting that he could play just as well with a bunch of stiffs? We know he can't because we saw that he couldn't. It's the same for literally every QB. Am I missing something? Tua's flourishing, but if you took away either one of his guys, his passer rating would drop 15 points. At least.
     
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  12. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Second video 4:28 mark "when you have Hill and Waddle you can......"

    You can continue to believe Tua is the only reason the offense has played well. In fact you may have just solved the salary cap issue for next year. Dolphins can just cut Hill and Waddle since they are not important.

    Last years offense had games were Dolphins scored 33,28,28,24,33,31...
     
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  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Well, we can all rest easy knowing that somewhere there's a Zach Wilson Is Not The Problem thread that just went thermonuclear.

     
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  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I wasn’t making it a debate. I prefaced my statement that perhaps I was reading your post wrong, did I not?
     
  15. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Can you imagine being a defender on that team, hold the Pats to 3 points and your QB says this...



    No wonder they are pissed with him.
     
  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure who decided to track that stat, but it's highly amusing and just a little bit insulting for Jets fans, LOL. Didn't folks tell us early this season that Zach Wilson was the better QB?!?
     
  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    There were more than a few in national media who concurred. Pretty sure Chris Simms had him ranked ~8 places higher than Tua.
     
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  19. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Chris Simms is still defending Wilson and talking down Tua, along with his idiot buddy Florio.
     
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  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I actually just saw a video of Simms saying he can see the Phins going to the superbowl
     
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  21. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yes, he and Florio admit the Fins have a good offense, but they don't credit Tua for that. According to them, it's all the WRs and the scheme.
     
  22. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Reminder that there were Tua haters here who used Chris Simms takes as evidence that he is bad

    And also he should have been hired as GM
     
  23. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    He's still lower on the idiot scale than Skip Bayless, who still insists Baker Mayfield is head and shoulders better than Tua.
     
  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Skip has been brain-damaged for years.
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Can you imagine losing a starting job mostly due to a narrative about your relatively *sshole nature? The Jests locker room must be a dumpster fire right now. Can't lie and say that I'm not happy to hear it.

     
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  26. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Skip Bayless is pretty much just playing a character though. Chris Simms believes what he is saying.
     
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  27. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Reports say that the Texans are sitting Davis Mills and starting Kyle Allen against us Sunday.
     
  28. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Basically that’s all what the critics have left.

    I’ll take worries about his durability as a legitimate concern, but the same can be said about at least half the QBs in the league. Any QB who is undersized or scrambles a lot or has a history of injuries gets that question mark.
     
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  29. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    You don’t lose your starting role in the NFL for being an *sshole, you lose it for not contributing to winning and being an *sshole. The Jets are reliving a Mark Sanchez season with a good D being handicapped by a pretty awful passer. I’d say it’s a net positive for the Jets locker room, because the other players know Wilson hasn’t been holding up his end of the bargain.
     
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  30. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Truth. If Saleh announced it at a team meeting, it was because his captains had a problem with Wilson. It's one thing to be arrogant, it's another to be arrogant when you haven't earned the right to have that attitude. Brady can be a jerk if he wants to. Rodgers, too. Baker Mayfield and Zach Wilson, though? They're lucky if they're not confronted in the parking lot by teammates.

    Meanwhile, Justin Fields tearfully apologized to his teammates for coming up short when his star is clearly ascending on a team that cut bait on some of its best players. And apparently, he has a separated shoulder. That's leadership.
     
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  31. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  32. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    This thread is pretty much dead at this point, but I believe this belongs here:
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    And you resurrected it lol.

    Might as well update: Tua's still leads the league in passer rating this year with 115.7 ahead of 107.9 for Geno Smith (not a typo!) at #2.
     
  34. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it be rather poetic if they end up meeting at the Super Bowl?
     
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  35. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Miamidolphins618 found this tweet and posted it in the weekly club thread.



    Have not checked the math, but Tua is proving to be more than not the problem. He is the solution. Best points per drive in the NFL with him.

    MIA: 282 pts, 2.76 PPD (1.08 PPD w/o Tua, 3.38 PPD w/ Tua)
     
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  36. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I think the time has come to say what are the legitimate causes for concern about Tua.
    I see only 2.
    1) Durability.
    Half of the QBs in the league have this as a question mark. Undersized QBs like Kyler Murray. Running QBs like Justin Fields.
    2) Small sample size.
    The Carson Wenz/Nick Foles argument. It’s possible that the short term success Tua’s had so far is unsustainable because of [scheme/luck/opposingDs will figure him out].

    The only way for these 2 to be proven wrong is time.

    Other concerns don’t add up for me.
    His arm strength is good enough. It would be nice if it were stronger and any injury to his throwing arm would be worrisome, but his arm strength isn’t preventing success.
    It’s all Hill/Waddle. If it were all Hill/Waddle then Bridgewater and Thompson would have had much more success than they have had. Undoubtedly the scheme and Tua are benefitting from the qualities of two very fast receivers.
    It’s all McDaniel’s scheme. McDaniel’s scheme is a derivation/twist on the long proven Shanahan system. This isn’t like Chip Kelly spread offense or the wildcat that were successful because opposing Ds were confused by something new.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    IMO, this goes for all quarterbacks in their first three years not named Mahomes.
     
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  38. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Dolphins/Chargers flexed to Sunday night. Now Tua can beat Herbert's *** in primetime for everyone to see.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I agree with this. My only concern is durability, but it's not a concern that I would get rid of Tua over. I think he's likely less durable than a Murray, but that's neither here nor there.
     
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  40. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    If this account is true, Flo, Godsey and Studesville are guilty of malpractice:
     
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