1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua WAY ahead on Medical schedule

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DOLFANMIKE, Jun 14, 2020.

  1. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE COACH Luxury Box

    5,266
    4,331
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    California
    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ysical-therapist-hes-doing-miraculously-well/
    Dolphins rookie quarterback Tua Tagovailoa is healing better than expected from the hip injury that ended his final season at Alabama.

    That’s the word from Kevin Wilk, his Alabama-based physical therapist, who says Tagovailoa is approaching full strength on a shorter timeline than people with his injury usually do.

    He’s doing miraculously well,” Wilk told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. “The miraculous part is that he healed so well. The second part is, he’s been so well at getting his strength back, which usually takes a long time after something like this.”

    Tagovailoa does about three and a half hours of work a day to strengthen the injured hip as well as both ankles, which he struggled to keep healthy at Alabama, as well as his throwing shoulder. Wilk and the Dolphins’ head trainer were in regular contact and Tagovailoa is doing everything expected of him and more.

    “He’s laser focused. One of the most focused I’ve ever seen anybody, to be honest,” Wilk said.

    Although injured players are declared ahead of schedule so often that it’s a red flag if a player is merely on schedule, Dolphins plans have to be pleased to hear that Tagovailoa seems to be trending toward being ready to go as a rookie.

    ..................................................
    People talk about the time off for covid setting players back, but I'm 100% sure Tua will come out shining mentally when the teams resume practices. His mental makeup is so strong I expect him to thrive in this situation. I hope i'm right as it could make for an amazing season for our Fins!
     
    danmarino, resnor and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  2. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    2,826
    1,399
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    That's great, but I still don't want him out on the field till after the bye-week AND that's assuming the OL is playing decently. If Fitzmagic has Miami contending for a playoff spot, then Tua can sit until 2021.
     
    Hooligan and Phil Hutchings like this.
  3. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    2,110
    1,226
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    I agree with this. If we're winning with Fitz, then lets keep riding with him. I do see Fitz getting hooked a lot sooner than the bye week if things get bad. A lot of us are going to start calling for Tua the minute things get bad.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  4. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

    128
    116
    43
    Sep 16, 2018
    I completely agree.

    As you Americans say, "If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it," and if we’re winning, or at least losing competitively, it would be folly to bench Fitz in favour of Tua just for the Hell of it.
     
  5. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 July Fireworks 2020

    381
    78
    28
    Apr 15, 2012
    Like his attitude. Keep it up. As really the kid just needs to learn however. Maybe like that of Patrick Mahomes for Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers for Brett Favre.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Jmo, I would sit the Rookie, whom I love, allow Fitz to lead the team after an excellent 2nd half of the season last year, with better talent all around, and see how far he can take this years team, if he falters and the team falls out of contention, then make the switch..

    Lots of folks don’t agree with me here, but I think after leading a team that had the worst oline in football, the worst running back unit in football, one of the worst tight end units in football, a coordinator that got fired after his first year, leading the team in rushing, and a winning record in the 2nd half of the season, which included beating the world champs at their house with lots on the line, he actually gets the gig out of respect for high level play under the worst conditions..

    I think Flores makeup will feel the same. Jmo..

    Also, it won’t matter if he outplays Fitz in practice, I would take the pressure off him immediately and let him know his role to start the year.
     
  7. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    2,261
    1,774
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    June 12th, first mention of Miami and the playoffs.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,708
    8,838
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I agree as well except to say "If we're winning with Fitz or Rosen..." If Fitz plays bad/goes down early, then I'd prefer Rosen to get a 2nd tryout instead of rushing Tua in there too quickly.
     
  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,197
    1,911
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I think Tua should see the field but mostly in mop up duty in games that have been decided. Also, only when he is healthy enough to do so.
     
  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,830
    7,292
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    I agree on letting Tua sit and develop. He has a great mentor in Fitzpatrick and can learn a lot from him. Besides, if you look at the history, particularly recent history of the pressure to start rookie quarterbacks, it hasn't worked out too well for the most part. Ther'es been those that have been able to develop with that pressure but in general, its typically better to develop your draftee behind a proven starter.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    The narrative against this is it doesn’t help a Qb to hold a clipboard..
     
    resnor likes this.
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    See to me it isn’t about seeing What Tua has to offer early, it’s really about two things..

    1) I’m genuinely interested to see how far Fitz can go with a better team around him..

    2)I don’t care if doctors medically cleared him, medically cleared doesn’t mean he can’t improve on his strength in the injured area, Tua had some weight issues in college where he would let himself go, I would make sure he is absolutely at his best, and I mean, lean muscle mass, excellent body fat ratio, strength and conditioning best, That hip and the surrounding areas of that hip, is gonna be stronger than pre injury..He will be a lean mean, super fast grease lighting fast machine before he see the field imo.
     
    resnor likes this.
  13. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    2,261
    1,774
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Fitzpatrick has had one season over .500 that's how far he can go.
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,222
    25,681
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Yea I have zero interest as Fitzpatrick is not a good quarterback.

    he is a fine quarterback and fun to watch. Just not a good one.
     
  15. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    2,826
    1,399
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    I wasn't predicting a playoff run (as I had an 'if' in there) but I've watched this team go from 1-15 to 11-5 in one offseason. With the expanded playoff format 9-7 should get you in fairly often, 8-8 now and again.

    I'm not saying Miami CAN'T make the playoffs either. We saw how 2019 was a tale of two halves; a team being blown out game after game in first half of the season, then a team winning more than they lost in the second half of the season.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Too many variables in that number, plus it leaves no room for progression..
     
    Hooligan and resnor like this.
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    He played at a higher level than tannehill did for 6 years.
     
    Hooligan likes this.
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,222
    25,681
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    That's an opinion. And one that I don't think helps the Fitzpatrick starting argument.

    Still zero interest in the journeyman starting.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I can understand your pov, I feel like the majic is getting better at playing the position, less gun slinger more calculated game manager, not in any hurry to start Tua
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
    Hooligan and resnor like this.
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,742
    7,867
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Results don't equate to playing at a higher level. I'm not sure that Fitz was making more difficult throws than Tannehill was in Miami.

    And Fitz will never come close to the kind numbers Tannehill had this season.

    BUT, I think Fitz is a higher level when it comes to playing off script. However, that's also his Achilles heel. It's why he can be Jekyll and Hyde.
     
    VManis likes this.
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Like any stats context is key, I think posting the numbers he did, under those circumstances, was very good, so you have to try and extrapolate what better player and better protection would do For the stats..if he posted a 90 qbr with last years team what would it be if he didn’t have the worst oline, running back unit, tight end unit in football? That’s how I think of it at least, better surrounding players helps improve qb numbers, we know this.
     
    Phil Hutchings, mlb1399 and resnor like this.
  22. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Based on every report I've ever heard about Tua's ability to lock-down an offense in record time, repeatedly, coupled with his seemingly ridiculous recovery regimen and results, and adding the fact that the OC they brought in is in-line with Tua's game...if he beats Fitzy in camp, he should start. Not all guys need a year, not that I think it would hurt him, but his football intelligence is off the charts, and his leadership is unquestionable. He's going to take over this team with quickness. He's lightning in a bottle.

    I know that's probably not a popular opinion, just how I see it. I see no reason, as it stands right now, assuming he beats Fitzy, that he shouldn't start. We have no way of knowing whether Mahomes would've been just as good had he started right off...or if he'd have been even better this year with the extra experience with the game, its just a narrative that it helped him by sitting, because he sat.
     
  23. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    526
    572
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    I think one of the things we need to look at and take away from Mahomes and the situation in KC.. Is that They had a veteran QB in Smith who was established and could mentor Mahomes. What KC did that season was fine tune the offense Smith had a career year mentoring Mahomes. Smith led the NFL in several important categories... QB rating 104 Interception % 1... He led the NFL in yards per pass at 8.6

    The Chiefs worked out all of the kinks... They had the O line performing. They had brought in Electric play makers like Kelce and Hill. And Mahomes got a year to see that offense perform like a well oiled machine. He got to study the offense working perfectly. He was not put into a situation where he has to learn how to be an NFL QB while the team is trying to learn how to fine tune their offense. It eliminated other variables and other growing pains that could have a negative effect on him and or slow his growth and development.

    Miami has the established QB that Tua can learn from. Miami has issues to work out ( Offensive line. ) We do have good skill players... But we are learning a new offense... If Tua sits this year and takes over a year from now Every other player on the offense will be experienced in this offense and the only Variable then will be Tua... A well groomed Tua that is confident and ready to lead.

    I am not against Tua starting for us this year... There is an excellent argument for him to sit though
     
    The_Dark_Knight, Hooligan and resnor like this.
  24. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,334
    31,204
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    IMO it would be best for Tua to sit at least half of the season. There’s value in watching a vet go through the preparations for different opponents each week. Now it’s obviously possible that Tua could handle starting right away just fine but I see absolutely zero downside in bringing him in slowly. This is not about this year. This is about what’s best for the next 10 years.
     
    Phil Hutchings and Hooligan like this.
  25. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,334
    31,204
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I have a higher opinion than some here about Fitzpatrick. The fact is that PFF rated him as a top 15 QB the last two seasons. He has had a journeyman career but he was clearly better the last two seasons. I also believe that his experience will help a young OL develop. I suspect that Flores also has a higher opinion of Fitzpatrick than some here.
     
    Hooligan and djphinfan like this.
  26. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

    405
    457
    63
    Jan 29, 2017
    United Kingdom
    I've just had a look on the Bucs forum and the 'Dolphins To Start Ryan Fitzpatrick' thread has just hit the 30 post mark...! :w00t:
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,847
    50,873
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    What do you mean?
     
  28. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

    405
    457
    63
    Jan 29, 2017
    United Kingdom
    I'll be honest, I didn't really look, I was just joshing. It was a dig at people on forums being utterly obsessed by their team's former players who are now with other franchises.

    Of course, I'm not for one minute suggesting that anyone on here is like that.....
     
    Puka-head and Triggercut like this.
  29. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,830
    7,292
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    I agree with this 100%. With the few rare exceptions, the one thing that great quarterbacks have in common is they took over established offenses in which the only missing piece was the quarterback position.
     
  30. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    526
    572
    93
    Mar 4, 2020
    I like Fitzmagic just fine... More than his stat sheet he was the MVP of the team last year because of his leadership... He took a beating especially early on when the team was historically bad. He took the hits and kept going out there. I have a lot of respect for Fitz
     
  31. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

    128
    116
    43
    Sep 16, 2018
    I would add, only games that we’re comfortably winning, as throwing a kid into a situation where the team is getting beaten badly is not a good idea, especially if the OLine is struggling.
     
  32. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

    128
    116
    43
    Sep 16, 2018
    And if Tua sits this season, we will have had another year to improve the positions around him, which will, in turn, help to make things easier for him.
     
  33. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

    2,110
    1,226
    113
    Sep 13, 2011
    Oh I agree, I don't think we've seen the last of Josh Rosen.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  34. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,334
    31,204
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    IMO Rosen has some accuracy and processing issues that will probably prevent him from ever being a top tier QB. He just doesn't seem to learn systems quickly despite his alleged intelligence. But if he hangs around the league for a long enough career (I could easily see him retire to pursue other interests), I could see him being one of those guys that comes in and shines after a starter goes down. I don't think he could do that yet though. I think it would be when he's on that second contract, if it happens.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  35. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    526
    572
    93
    Mar 4, 2020

    We just do not know yet.

    Rosen was put in a terrible position and took a beating... Not the kind of thing you want a young inexperienced QB to go through.

    Flores does not bull**** or play games... He has no problem cutting players that do not fit in and work hard. ( Taco ) He has had the front office ship talented players out of here... ( Minkah, Tunsil ) He kept Rosen... He has praised Rosen and stated that he has shown consistent and considerable improvement.

    It is a complicated mess now that we drafted Tua... But if Rosen did not show Flores something that would lead him to believe he turned a corner and has a future... I believe he would no longer still be on this football team.
     
    resnor likes this.
  36. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,334
    31,204
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Rosen worked hard and was not a malcontent or complainer and more importantly he still has value. It would have been stupid of Flores to just cut Rosen or to do anything other than praise him as long as he was working hard and not complaining. I see that as more likely than the belief that he has a future here.
     
  37. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,830
    7,292
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    I feel badly for Rosen. He was drafted into a dumpster fire of a team in Phoenix and had zero chance of succeeding, then traded to a team that, at the time was a dumpster fire of a team. The kid was doomed to fail.

    Once upon a time, it was common for a team to keep 3 quarterbacks on its roster. That's just not the case any longer so I don't see Rosen with a future here in Miami. The only question is where does he go?

    Rosen needs to go to a team that is developed and has a quarterback in the twilight of his career. Green Bay would be a viable option, maybe even Indianapolis. As great as Rodgers is, he doesn't have many days left...neither does Rivers.
     
  38. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,334
    31,204
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    It depends on your opinion of him as a prospect. I had him rated as a 2nd round prospect coming out. I felt he had some issues that he was unlikely to overcome at the next level. Specifically, lack of consistent accuracy and slow processing. In the college film I felt he was late on throws far too often. The argument was that it was b/c he had to change systems multiple times so he never got to learn a system fully. IMO that probably means he doesn't have a high football IQ. (For comparison, Tua changed systems 3 times in 3 years and didn't have those issues. Rosen may well have a higher IQ than Tua, but my guess is that his football IQ is much, much lower). So I don't think that should be used as an excuse. It's actually evidence of a deeper issue.

    This continued in the pros, both the system changes and the accuracy/processing issues. With any draft QB prospect, you're just playing the odds. Most will not succeed. Almost every prospect needs certain surroundings to have success and hide their weaknesses. Some need less help and/or are easier to build around. The less help they need (and therefore more likely to succeed), the higher I'm willing to take them. I did not believe that Rosen was likely to be successful, at least not on his first (or maybe even his second contract) b/c his issues rarely get better in the pros unless you have a very raw and inexperienced QB. Rosen wasn't that. He was young but he'd been a multi-year starter in HS and college. He was a touted prospect coming out of HS and had been privileged enough to be able to attend many QB camps. This guy had had a lot of coaching from some very respected coaches. He was pretty polished and my feeling was that those issues were most likely on him and not likely to improve anytime soon. I was willing to go with a 2nd rounder just b/c the position is so important, our need was so great and you just have o keep trying until you find that QB.

    So IMO Rosen was lucky to get over-drafted and get a ton of money. I don't think he was likely to succeed anyways. He was lucky to land in some bad situations b/c then his lack of success will always be seen by some as somebody else's fault. I don't feel badly for Rosen. I think he's been very fortunate and will end up having a great life. His top 10 selection will probably result in a relatively long career. Probably as long as he wants it as some will keep saying, "he was a top 10 pick for a reason" (as if that implies it was a good reason). Back-up QB is a pretty sweet gig. A bunch of fans usually love you and you escape most of those hits that leave so many players hobbled physically and mentally in their old age. He may even have a small flash of success if he lands in a good situation after he's been in the league for awhile. Or he may leave with his riches and go become a lawyer or doctor or whatever he wants to do.
     
    M1NDCRlME, resnor and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,708
    8,838
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I can't understand people's idea to dump Rosen since we have Tua. I'll remind folks that we picked up an extra 2nd rounder to trade for Rosen, essentially making him free. He's only owed $2M a year as well and he's an excellent prospect that's younger than Joe Burrow. People have been BEGGING Miami to bring in young prospects and carry them on the roster- and now that we have two of them, you want to dump one? There's zero sense in doing that since Rosen is a value whether he's starting or not.

    Additionally, it's not a given that Tua is our future long-term starter. We all want him to be, of course, but he could get injured or simply end up being a bust...we never know until we actually know. So hedging our bets with Rosen on the cheap is a very smart move for the next few seasons, and it's still possible that he's actually the long-term starter. Right now we have two chances of having a future franchise quarterback on our roster, and the last I checked 2 is always better than 1. So have some patience with the kid whether he's getting playing time or not.
     
  40. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,334
    31,204
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I don't recall anybody saying we should dump Rosen?
     

Share This Page