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Tua..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Sep 11, 2023.

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  1. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Some said he was incapable of it. Receipts go back for years, not just through Sunday.
     
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  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    No. They don't. Those stats you mentioned can increase and decrease based on the players and scheme. They aren't constant. External factors impact QB's stats. Those stats determine if the QB is good or bad, not their physical traits. You've lost this argument so thoroughly I'm done here.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    On target throw percentage combined with intended air yards are TOTALLY ON THE QB. They literally measure how accurately a QB throws the ball and how far they are throwing it.

    Your agenda is clear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  6. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else notice that StaleTacos didn't respond to this..... LOL..
     
  7. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Here are the top 10 QBs in intended air yards per pass attempt and on target %. Only ONE QB is top 10 in both. Care to guess which one?

    upload_2023-9-13_14-10-36.png

    The quality of the WRs does not affect either stat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Tua's trainer on the Pass:
     
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  9. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think the spread would move considerably if Tua was in active. Probably Patriots -2.5.
     
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  10. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Liked the comparison to last year in this break down. One thing that none should deny is that Tua is working hard on improving every year. And, so far, it's undeniable that it has shown up in his stats.

     
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  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    wait, you are claiming if Tua didn't have Hill or Burrow didn't have Chase their numbers would be the same as they are with them?
     
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  12. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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  13. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Not on target %. Having Hill or Chase doesn't make the QB throw the ball more accurately. How is this even remotely confusing?

    The point to showing on target % with average intended air yards is to show that Tua is on target even though he is throwing it farther down the field than the other QBs that are also on target. That is pure QB talent and is independent of who he is throwing to.
     
  14. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for an explanation to this conundrum... Can we get a APB out for StaleTacos?

    Tua led the league in passer rating, YPA, and many other important STATS.... so he was the best QB last season, right?
     
  15. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    He's just going to say that he's not a stat guy. The argument will continue.
     
  16. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    That's one statistic, and OnTgt% can also be impacted by the players and scheme. Hence why Tua's OnTgt% actually got WORSE with McDaniel's system than with Flores. Tua threw deeper so passes were less accurate. Of course as well, the offensive line giving a QB more time to throw could also impact OnTgt%.

    Of course many other QBs statistics can be improved directly with better receivers, yards, TDs, CAY/PA, completion %, passer rating, ect.. My Lord you are so lost on this one, I couldn't help myself.
     
  17. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Literally, how many more times can I say this? I need to see Tua do it for a full season where he doesn't skip the best pass defense twice. Plays through injuries. When you compare Tua's numbers to actual QBs that played all the difficult teams and played through injuries, it's apples to oranges.

    Let the season play out. Some of you are in such a hurry to be "right." It's sad AF.
     
  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Bengals had the best pass defense, not the Jets. Technicality. Also, Tua played very well against Buffalo, twice, and the difference between the Bengals, Jets and Buffalo in terms of pass defense was negligible: 80.1, 80.5, and 82.1 passer rating allowed, respectively. So he's shown he can play well against very good pass defenses, including on the road and in cold weather.

    More importantly, the issue I and many others have with your stance is you haven't change it regardless of the data. THAT is not evidence based reasoning. It's one thing to say you need larger sample size. I agree with that. It's another thing to say you won't make any changes to your original hypothesis until you have large sample size. There is NO valid statistical analysis where there is a continuum of hypotheses (as opposed to just two possible hypotheses, which isn't the case here) that leads to that view.

    So on one hand you like to talk about stats, but on the other hand you completely ignore and implicitly dispute valid statistical analysis — look up Bayesian inference for starters. Can't have it both ways.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Revengers who are better at getting open give the QB a better target to throw to.

    This is not hard
     
  20. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. so stats don't apply to Tua... gotcha....
     
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  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You clearly don't know how on target % is measured. It is not based on how open they are. It is just if the pass was thrown accurately. Jesus.....
     
  22. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    He literally doesn't care if his arguments make any sense, are logically consistent, or factually correct. Must just discredit Tua at all costs.....
     
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  23. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    You got nothing to my other post? Yikes.

    Stats apply to Tua, however they are just shallow because of SSS and skipping the most difficult opponent twice, and also getting knocked out of Bengals who also had a top pass defense. He was doing very bad in that one too. Larger samples tend to prove things.
     
  24. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Oh where to begin..... he didn't skip the most difficult opponent twice. That has already been debunked but you state it again anyway.

    13 games is plenty of sample size.

    On average Tua faced the 11th ranked defense by passer rating allowed. Mahomes faced the 16th ranked defense.

    Let me break it down for you... HE FACED MORE DIFFICULT DEFENSES THAN MAHOMES.

    Next......

    You are easy to defeat because you don't actually research anything. You just spout nonsense. If you want to calculate the average ranked pass defense faced by all QBs, go ahead. I picked Mahomes at random from the list of good QBs because I knew you were talking out of your butt.
     
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  25. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    What? How has it been debunked? Jets held opponents to a passer rating of 80.5, Bengals were 80.1. Practically identical. HOWEVER, the Jets gave up 445 yards less, 2 less TDs, had 15 more sacks, and 28 more QB hits. So I'd easily say Jets were #1. Even if you ignore that, who cares? The point is the same.

    Tua didn't play elite for 13 games though. Actually, he didn't even play 13 full games. He just played in 12, and only 7 of those were "elite" even if you go by passer rating. So yes, very much a SSS of being elite. Let the season play out, or are you scared to let that occur?

    And I see you again skipped replying to my post about receivers making QBs better. Good move. My God that was a bad position. Glad you abandoned it.
     
  26. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Guess how many times Mahomes faced the Jets..... that's right ZERO.

    The point is that you want to ding Tua for not playing the toughest pass defenses when, IN FACT, Tua played tougher pass defenses than Mahomes and no amount of your whining is going to change that. You'll have to try something else. No QB plays elite in every game, not even Mahomes. It's true. Check it out. No, really. ..... Jesus, get your head out of your "Tua must be discredited bubble". Look around.

    This is the problem with you. You try your hardest to find reasons to discredit Tua without ever considering the possibility that other QBs have the same or even better situations. It is ridiculous.

    They don't make QBs better. I've already covered that. Keep up. The moment you find evidence that a WR makes a QB throw more accurately, or make quicker decisions, let me know. Until then, try to understand that I already acknowledged that they can impact the statistics. I even gave examples.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
  27. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I’ve avoided this banter but I’m only going to say this…

    It may not be your intent, but every time I read one of your posts that reads “has to play for an entire season”, this is what I hear…

    “Tua sucks because he’s been injured”.

    As I said, it may not be your intent, but it is my perception.
     
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I love Salty Tua...good for him. If he could actually throw deep like the naysayers claim, he would have put up 700 yards last week, LMAO.
     
  29. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    His intent is to deflect credit from Tua in any way he can. This is just what he has been reduced to because all of his other claims have been shot down (by Tua).
     
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  30. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    All the while openly giving his boy Herbert a free pass because of Injuries. It's not Herbert's fault he's injured ,it's expected after a full season. LOL, can't make this stuff up.
     
  31. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    LOL. Did you really expect him to ?
    He's the master of hypocritical double standards.
     
  32. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    No. I just think in order for him to be deemed elite, he needs to be elite for a longer period.

    Also, I've never said Tua sucks. I don't think Tua sucks. This is the biggest problem with Tuanon. Either you are completely in love with Tua and think he's elite, or Tua sucks. There's no middle ground. Tuanon's extremist positions put ISIS to shame.
     
  33. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Been busy since the game.
    Here's my thoughts.

    I think Tua played very well. It was his best game. It was very surprising considering his first play of the year in the preseason. I think he played smarter. I think he displayed much better touch. His passes had more zip and were thrown with more of a lower trajectory than usual and his ball placement was much much better. He got the ball out in front of his receivers and hit them more in stride. That was great to see. I'll admit that I was pleasantly surprised.

    Now, let's make no mistake about this, imo, so much of that games outcome came down to coaching. I think McDaniels and the O staff coached one of their best games and I think Staley clearly coached his worst. We should send Staley a care package for the way he coached. The guy is completely over his head. He should have been fired that day. He's supposedly a defensive guy and he thought it was a good idea to play man against Tyreek and co, Man up Tyreek? That was just idiotic....but great for us. This was one of teams that "figured us out" last year. Also, look at how sloppy and undisciplined that D played. That penalty by JC Jackson at the end of the half was insane. That was such a blatant, stupid penalty that actually could have helped cost them the game because by how much did we win? That's also a coaching issue. The defensive coach's D played sloppy and undisciplined. It was just like with their playoff game last year. They blew a three touchdown lead later in the game. That's on the "great" D coach. He's lost. He's over his head. He will squander and waste the talent on that team. He really needs to go as soon as possible. It should be today. That's how bad he was. McDaniels saw their mistakes and exploited them. Smart.

    Another part of the team that deserves major props and that deserves much credit for that win was our OL!! Holy! The bleeping OL!!!!
    Who the bleep saw that coming? I think it is safe to say that all of us, on both sides, had concerns in that department. I was actrually fearing for Tua's life going into that game. Now put this in your pipe and smoke it; Austin Jackson completely stoned and shut down Joey Bleeping Bosa! Who in the hell saw that coming? .....no one! That was incredible and was a major factor for the win. So, let's also give Butch Barry a shout out! Ha! Holy ----.! Bosa and Mack were pretty much non factors in that game. That's truly amazing! Aside from Staley's ineptitude, that may be the biggest factor in the win.

    So, we'll see if teams adjust, but for now, let's see if they can keep it up by putting a major smack down on the Patsies next Sunday. ........awww yeah, mofoers!
     
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  34. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is claiming Tua is elite. This is the biggest problem with Anti-Tuanon. Either you think he sucks or you are calling him elite. I merely want to give him credit for what he achieved in 2022. It is as simple as that. You have posted hundreds of "but...." posts to try to deny him credit. This is from a Dolphins fan, on a Dolphins fan site. It is weird.

    If your position was merely "I just think in order for him to be deemed elite, he needs to be elite for a longer period." I'd agree with you. If that is your intent, you have done a terrible job of presenting your position because I don't think more than a handful of people would think that is your position based on your posting history.

    BTW, IMO, there are only two elite QBs right now, Mahomes and Burrow. Josh Allen? Sorry, he has to earn it back. Hurts? Lawrence? Herbert? Same issue as Tua, not enough time at that level. Jackson? Not a good enough passer.

    Of the very good but not yet considered elite QBs, I think Tua has the best chance to be elite.

    Right now my projections for top 10 2023 QBs are Mahomes, Burrow, Tua, Lawrence, Allen, Hurts, Jackson, Herbert, Wilson, Goff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  35. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Good video. He rightfully stresses the ridiculously quick release. The release, anticipation, accuracy, arm talent, and pocket presence are what makes Tua effective despite having average arm strength.
     
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  36. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the Charger's RBs are fans of Tua and Hill now.....

     
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  37. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    I'm pretty sure this Solak guy was one of the guys who thought Tua sucked (and I think he's a Patsies fan as well) who is slowly but surely realising he was completely wrong.
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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  39. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Na. That's exactly what some on my ignore list have been doing.
     
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