For those of a short attention span, Eifert is significantly better. For those of you who can concentrate a bit longer, here's why. First of all, it's easy to compare the two because they both play for good schools, but to me there is no real comparison. I watched Zach Ertz drop more balls against USC than I saw Eifert drop in seven games across three seasons. Neither of them can block very well. But even here, Eifert is better. Ertz seems little more than an interference blocker. He struggles with defensive linemen and linebackers, but when he's falling off blocks consistently against the likes of TJ McDonald then you're in trouble. He waist bends when blocking in line and in space he's all over the place. No balance, no co-ordination, his hands in the wrong place too often. Not to say that Eifert is much better. His hand placement varies from poor to average and when he blocks on the move, his hips, which should be the best part of anyone's ability to block aren't sunk and he often falls off a block like someone falling off the side of a horse. What concerns me in this area is that if you watch him in 2010 when he's thinner and doesn't possess the musculature of 2012, he isn't that much better as a blocker. To me that can't JUST be coaching. Can it? At least Eifert gets fairly decent posture. He just doesn't drop his hips. If you're a great boxer like Andre Ward or Adrien Broner, the power in the punch comes from the legs and the hips. It doesn't come from the arm. It comes from what you do lower down. Same with blocking. Doesn't matter if you have the strongest arms on the planet if downstairs isn't aligned. As for receiving, they can both catch the ball well. They both catch the ball with their hands. They both run well. They both get open. But Eifert is just better in every department. He's quicker off the line of scrimmage and quicker into his stride. He eats up the ground and physically he looks more imposing. He runs better routes than Kyle Rudolph did when he came out and went high. He's a true seam buster. He uses his hands to get open really well and even though he often doesn't look open, it doesn't matter. He re-adjusts superbly to the mis-thrown ball and his catching radius is stupendous. I'm serious. It's brilliance. In seven games I saw him go up high and get the ball about fifteen times and about five of them were wow plays. As in wow, I need to rewind that because that was special. Double coverage against FSU, he beasted a really good coverage linebacker in Nigel Bradham time and again. His staple play is a quick out and although he doesn't run it very well in terms of using his head or really planting and driving, you just can't stop it because his hands are so good and you can't get through him. I think he's quicker than a lot of people think and he is unstoppable at times. I've of course seen him a fair bit but not in isolation play after play after play. Ertz is a decent player and he can make some highlight reel catches but to me he's significantly less of a player than Tyler Eifert. The wisdom of taking a tight end at twelve is questionable considering the value of a Jason Witten in round three, a Finley in round 3, a Hernandez in round 4, Dwayne Allen in 3, etc. But Eifert is a really good player and as a receiver he's getting better and better. I'm going to be very intrigued to see what he runs at the Combine. I want to see him become a better blocker and a more prolific route runner - he can certainly change direction well at speed - but he needs to up the consistency level, but this kid is definitely arrow up. As I said, he's better than Kyle Rudolph. He'd be a hell of a pick at twenty. That's all I'm saying. But I really like him. I don't think Ertz is better than Coby Fleener. To me he's value in the sixty region.
Good post, Boom. The thing that separated Eifert from Ertz for me personally was what you highlighted in your post, his athleticism in catching the ball.
I like Eifert, but not in the first round, which is probably where he goes. To me, the value guy is Reed in the late 3rd early 4th as our second tight end. That means keeping Fasano or signing Keller.
The only thing I didn't like that I saw as a trend in Eifert was difficulty when the balls was put right on his numbers with velocity. But I'll take that bad with the good, because the reason it happens are those same long arms that make his catch radius superb. He snatches the ball well when he can extend for it, but those long arms seem to have more issues catching inside the Fran of his body.
If the def ends aren't there at 12, I'm not opposed to trading down, and selecting Eifert in the first.. A trade down combined with free agency you could potentially be talking about.. Jennings/Wallace Eifert Eddie Lacy Austin/Woods Cory Lemonier.
If you're attacking teams down the field, Reed and Fasano don't scare old ladies let alone NFL defences. Yet again, this is the tip toe tip toe mentality of the Miami Dolphins. Where are the folks prepared to ram some stuff down people's throats and be damned?
Tyler Eifert imo is the best red zone scoring threat in the draft, his vertical combined with his radius and hands is like boomer said Stupendous, or whatever adjective you'd like to put there.. Isn't that what we trying to do here this year, get our Qb weapons, well, he's the best weapon the draft has to offer inside the twenty imo... If we're really serious about going after Wallace, I think Eifert should be targeted..that dynamic in terms of complimenting skillsets would be just outstanding for our offense and QB..
Not sure what you mean about Reed, he seems like a pretty good blocker with plenty of speed and quicks as a receiver- nice play here at 1:15 showing some quicks and excellent acceleration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSXOjOcE3Aw I'm wondering if there's some redundancy with Clay, but until Clay and hopefully Egnew play better... ps at 1:06 Moore shows an interesting look dropping into coverage playing more of the joker and closes in nicely to get the sack, nice awareness, closing speed and ability to make a play. Granted, same old- it would be great to see him straight up beat an OT to get the sack, but I still like him. Reed looks pretty good blocking Moore in this clip, point for Reed and point deducted for Moore.
LMFAO!! You know what's sad is I actually wanted to know where you came out on this question, but I don't have time to read all of this right now to find out, so I was actually kind of grateful for this first line. Incidentally my short attention-span response to your short attention-span assessment is, "I agree."
Jim, it was more a knock on Fasano than Reed, who I actually like an awful lot. To me Fasano is part of the problem with this team. He will resign, he'll catch 37 passes or so, will disappear for great stretches of the season and will never cause a defensive co-ordination to scheme against him.
I do see your point, but as I just posted in another thread I see value in Fasano. What I can say is that I've keyed on him in games live in previous seasons and he is just not a seam buster, he simply does not have that extra gear. He has made some nice medium range catches, but that's not the same as drawing extra attention and being a true open up the middle deep threat. I thought that Dallas Clark might have been an interesting option last year to open up the offense- that being said, I do see a role for Fasano as an all around TE, but he will never be a true difference maker due to his lack of speed.
How about if we keep Fasano and draft one of these better pass catching seam busters to go with him and use two TE as our base formation? Also, Fasano was used more off the line later in the season, so he could be an H Back mostly too, or as just a plain ol' lead blocker for power runs.
To save time, for we simple folk from the hinterlands, you could just assign a letter grade to each player, and assort them in their proper order.
If we happen to miss out on Eifert I think Chris Gragg might be my 2nd choice (since he'd likely come at a 4th or 5th round price). To me he's the closest this draft to Dwayne Allen.
I think Eifert is a guy you can probably expect to end up being an average blocker, and someone you can line up in-line without being gripped by fear of him single-handedly ruining a given run play.
One TE I'd consider taking late or as a priority UDFA is Brian Leonhardt of Bemidji State. He looked pretty good in the Texas vs The Nation game.
Made up what? His name? That he looked good in that game? He is a real person. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=104098 Maybe he didn't look good to you, but that's ok.
There is already a 51st state. It is called Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bemidji_State_University
Did you watch Texas vs The Nation? If so, what did you think of him? I also was very impressed with the Tulane QB, Ryan Griffin, and I'd swear he is better than some who were invited to the combine, which he wasn't.
OK, I will ask the stupid question…. If he is such a great threat in the red zone why only 4 TD's last season? Why only 11 TD's in the last two seasons? Looks like tarzan plays like cheetah? Really, IDK what people see in this guy. The guy did not dominate in college how is he going to dominate in the NFL?
I think what KB posted about Green Bay receivers apply to TEs and Philbin would probably want TEs would can read coverages as well as run routes and block. So we need smart TEs that go along with their physical abilities.
He was as dominant as a seam threat tight end could be. 11 career touchdowns. Tony Gonzalez - 5 career college touchdowns Jason Witten - 7 career college touchdowns Jermichael Finley - 5 career toucdowns Aaron Hernandez - 12 career touchdowns in that Urban Meyer offense Martellus Bennett - 7 career touchdowns Scott Chandler - 10 career touchdowns Dallas Clark - 8 career touchdowns Jared Cook - 7 career touchdowns Chris Cooley - 11 career touchdowns Owen Daniels - 8 career touchdowns Vernon Davis - 9 career touchdowns Lance Kendricks - 8 career touchdowns Tony Moeaki - 11 career touchdowns Greg Olsen - 6 career touchdowns Brandon Pettigrew - 9 career touchdowns Jacob Tamme - 11 career touchdowns Last four Notre Dame tight ends: Anthony Fasano - 8 career touchdowns John Carlson - 7 touchdowns Kyle Rudolph - 8 touchdowns Tyler Eifert - 11 career touchdowns. In the storied history of Irish tight ends, he's the first to win the Mackey Award.
Not only that, but Joe and Mike both love to use their tight ends off the line. Joe is really big on the joker tight end. Right now, a Jermichael Finley type of tight end is likely the model for Joe Philbin. Mike Sherman probably wants someone that is a bit more of a blocker, but someone that can split out wide and also block like a fullback from the backfield. To me, Travis Kelce is a TREMENDOUS FIT for the Miami Dolphins and what they want to do offensively. He can play both in line and off the line. He has lined up as a wing back/fullback in the backfield at times. He has great blocking technique. If Miami can land him with their 2A pick at 42, it would be great. If Michael Egnew develops along with a Kelce, that's a nice duo at tight end, with Egnew being the true joker guy at the position.
What is the significance of these numbers? Boomer's post shows that many of the top tight ends had similar or lower TD's; the idea is that top NFL tight ends didn't necessarily put up prolific TD numbers. Are you implying that Ertz and Escobar are better because they scored more touchdowns?
No, he's simply applying the same logic to all the prospects that you're trying to place on Eifert. So I'm to understand that while you can argue for Eifert's lack of touchdowns as "Oh great tight ends have some history of not putting up huge numbers" but when someone points out that other TE's put up more production you are saying "Yeah but that doesn't show anything"? That's a double standard. Rob Gronkowski scored 16 touchdowns in 2 years in college.
Did you read his entire post? He said "He was as dominant as a seam threat tight end could be. 11 career touchdowns" in reference to Eifert. The TD total was given as evidence of his being dominant. So, I just showed that 2 of the other top TEs scored a few more. I've made no secret of ranking Ertz as slightly better than Eifert since we've been discussing them the past month.
IDK, maybe it is just me but Eifert looks stiff to me especially compared to Ertz. Ertz looks fluid when he runs his patterns… that is just what I see.
not sure this really proves your point since most of those guys did / are not dominate in the NFL BUT I see your point that college production (or lack there of) is not indicative of what NFL production is going to be
So first ballot Hall of Famers Tony Gonzalez and Jason Witten didn't dominate in the NFL? What about All Pro's Vernon Davis, Chris Cooley and Dallas Clark? Or Pro Bowlers like Owen Daniels, Kyle Rudolph, etc? Or vital offensive cogs like Aaron Hernandez, Greg Olsen or Jacob Tamme, etc? Or highly rated young playmakers like Scott Chandler, Moeaki, Jared Cook, etc. Come on man, you're better than that.
