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Tyler Eifert

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by boski7, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. boski7

    boski7 New Member

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    I realize tight end is not the most important need on this team but I would love a play making tight end like Tyler Eifert.
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Me too, but Sherman has said that he really thinks Egnew is going to be a " very good player for us", so I don't know..

    Like to know how he's workin out while his *** is not activated every week.
     
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  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    probably busy learning the offense and adding some weight/core strength. He's got a lot of work to do for Philbin to trust him IMO, but once he has a grasp on things he could be a very strong contributor and provide us an addition to the playmaking department IMO.
     
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  4. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Coach speak.

    It might be believable if he had accrued a stat in 11 games.

    He's not going to say "Oh Egnew sucks and he doesn't know half of the plays after 6 months."
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    agreed, but it's a third round pick, and no one at this point can really determine what he'll be, and we probably will sign Fasano..

    I want Eifert, I think he would be the most impactful weapon we could add with the overall balance in his game..
     
  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    yeah ok. You don't know what you're talking about.
    It's typical for TEs to have little impact their rookie year b/c the transition is often difficult, especially for Egnew based on the offense he came from. This isn't backyard football here; you don't just throw a guy on the field and say, "Have at it". There's a serious adjustment period/learning curve at the position. He's gotta learn a new offense, gain a little more size/strength & improve his blocking (considering he was more like an oversized WR at Mizzou), and get used to the speed of the NFL game. According to you, Jimmy Graham must be a terrible player since he only caught 5 passes during his first 7 games as a rookie.
     
  7. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    If he fell to our early 2nd round pick or we traded back into the first I would be all for it. Not to keen to trading down in the first because I feel we could have an opportunity at a player that could be a lynch pin type player for this team.
     
  8. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    And how many the next 8 games of his rookie year after being essentially a BB player for most of his development time? Gronkowski scored 10 TD's as a rookie , so an impact can be made let alone some contribution. Egnew may develop , we have essentially no real idea , but this has been a red shirt year ( to date ) and that is a pretty high pick to get absolutely zero contribution from so far this season. As I said in another thread that third to red shirt a year was worth a second this draft , so we all are awaiting to see what his production will be. After almost a full year with a coaching staff I doubt they expected the level of contribution he has provided.
     
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  9. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    We don't have that kind of time to think Egnew will become a weapon. Come on now.
    We already know what he is.
     
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  10. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    That's hardcore cherrypicking, my friend. Even if I were to play along, that's 5 more catches than Egnew had at that point.

    Let's not forget, Egnew isn't exactly stuck behind Kellen Winslow Sr. on the depth chart.

    I found these statistics on a fantasy website, but bear with me, because it refutes your point.

    That's rec-yds-tds.

    Why did they play? Those are some nice numbers.

    Did you argue against Tannehill playing too? Or do you think that tight end is a far more complex position to play than quarterback?

    Plain and simple: there's no excuse not to play a guy who was selected as high as he was when the guy infront of him is Fasano.
     
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  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't understand why you're comparing an Hback from Mizzou to a potential top 3 all-time TE who entered the NFL a man among boys at a beastly 6'6 265.
    You're also not taking into account Philbin's coaching style, which clearly emphasizes a serious attention to detail (remember his comment about Clyde Gates being a neophyte as a route runner, yet Gates gets to see the field in NY). Plus, perhaps Philbin holding Egnew back until he's at a greater degree of readiness is part of coach's plan to help push his players to a higher level of professionalism and motivation, as he's done the same with Rishard Matthews who certainly isn't lacking in the talent department.

    I really don't get posters on this board. First you guys complain we didn't take Jimmy Graham in the 3rd round despite everyone on the planet knowing he likely wouldn't contribute much as a rookie, but now people complain after we DO spend a 3rd rounder on a talented player with some upside who would ALSO need some time to develop. Make up your minds, people...... unless, that is, you're saying we should ignore the TE position altogether considering how long they often take to develop in the NFL.
     
  12. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Graham did contribute as a rookie and I am still complaining we took an overage fat John Jerry over him. The comparison is we decided Graham wasn't worth a third yet Egnew was and despite your pronouncement , Graham did contribute as a rookie. Oh yeah that same draft when we needed a TE we also ignored Gronkowski who again contributed as rookie.

    Egnew MAY end up being a quality player , to not sniff the field to date as a third round pick says something, it doesn't say to me that they expected to red shirt him . I am taking in account our coaches style, did we pick a player that we expected to not contribute this year to date? Or was the evaluation on how long it would take off?
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's what Saints fans said about Graham after not catching a single pass in 5 of his first 7 games.
     
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  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    So you disagree with the implied 3 year rookie learning curve rule. Yeah, I get it; it's your choice. However, just b/c you believe that, it doesn't suddenly make the rule obsolete. BTW, your little list omitted some important variables that influneced some of those guys. That all situations are created equal.
     
  15. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Did they? And what did they say after his next 8 games , since you know what they said after his first 7 games playing behind a productive Jeremy Shockey? This is the same Jimmy Graham that was a TE for 1 year? raw? 3rd round pick? The same Jimmy Graham that the Dolphins obviously did not think merited a premium 3rd round pick because he may need time to develop? Yet was as you said a man against boys? a BEASTLY 6-6 265?

    Jimmy Graham did more than sniff the field, we are still awaiting for that momentous occasion for Egnew ... I highly doubt they picked Egnew expecting to red shirt him to date , so is it on the coaching staff because they haven't gotten him ready to date or was the evaluation of the players physical and mental ability or work ethic to contribute to date not accurate ?
     
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  16. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    ...and I have no issue with the two of us holding differing opinions. They make the world go round.

    Your original argument, however, was that there was a steep learning curve to the position; that rookie tight ends simply don't produce with the exception of future hall of famers (in your words, Gronkowski). I showed you a list of rookie tight ends that produced mid-tier statistics, some of whom did it as the #2 guy, and now you're simply falling back on "all situations are not created equal"? That's a cop out if I've ever heard one. It's irrefutable and can be used to defend anything.

    Jeff Ireland would've built a dynasty in Dallas, but uh.... not all situations are equal. That's why he hasn't done it in Miami.

    Pat White would've gotten the Shanahans back to the superbowl, and they woudn't have needed to give up the farm for RG III..... but not all situations are equal. That's why he didn't do it for Sparano.

    So on and so forth.
     
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  17. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    This is not a "rule". It's simply an adaptation of Bill Walsh's stated philosophy on rookies. Walsh said that all rookies got a pass year 1, should show something in year 2, and would be fully evaluated in year 3. To contrast, Parcells' philosophy is "if they don't bite as pups, they won't bite", so you have to show something right away in the Parcells tree. The three year period is far from universal among GMs.
     
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  18. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Eifert might fit well - but with Clay and Egnew (though he may not be good, he will have a shot at being on the roster) we would have another pure receiving TE.

    I'd take Christian Fauria - huge TE, great hands, needs a bit more speed but not that far off. Great Red Zone target. And, probably a better blocker.
     
  19. PhinsPhan23

    PhinsPhan23 New Member

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    At least we didn't take Ed Dickson AND Dennis Pitta over Graham and Gronk. How would that have looked?
     
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  20. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    next draft:
    1) TE
    2) shut-down corner
    3) deep threat WR
    4) quality offensive linesman
    add competition @ field goal kicker
     
  21. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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  22. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not as good as taking Graham or Gronkowski to be sure.
     
  23. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Actually if you consider that the team is trying to develop a rookie QB as we speak, and you look at the data on how teams with a high-reception tight end do in the win column in comparison to those without one (the difference is almost staggering), tight end may in fact be the most important need on this team.

    Matt Ryan got Tony Gonzalez in his second year. We need a pass-receiver like that to aid Ryan Tannehill IMO.
     
  24. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    If we don't choose to use a first on a tight end (LT, WR, CB, etc), I'd like to see Jared Cook brought in thru free agency.

    He's extremely underrated and underutilized in TEN. Put him in New England, and he's a top 3 producer at the position. Receiving, anyway.
     
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  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Every year draft people and scouts sing the same chorus about lack of tight end talent. This year there's Joe Fauria (not Christian, that's his uncle) and Tyler Eifert. I think I'm probably the only one who doesn't see it on Zach Ertz and would prefer his teammate Levine Toilolo, but either way if one or both of those come out that adds to it. Then there are some bargain guys like Travis Kelce and Phil Lutzenkirchen. Could be a good time to keep adding to the talent at that position.
     
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  26. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Adding to the position ala the GB blue print?
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know if it's really a blueprint or if it was just opportunistic...but yeah. I think New England is the team that has consistently and thoroughly laid out a blue print for the tight end position throughout the years going all the way back to the drafting of 1st round guys like Daniel Graham and Ben Watson, right through to today with Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. They're the team that has consistently laid down valuable resources on the position.
     
  28. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Don't see a TE in the first, but certainly adding one later. I kind of like Mychal Rivera from Tennessee, only 6'3'' and 245, but good hands and athletic.
     
  29. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Yes NE has spent premium resources on the position for a while , but more was referring to how GB has had many TE's on the roster during Philbin's tenure there.

    Wonder how close Finley and Lane are and if they are would that have any influence in making Miami an option for Finley.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Only in Philbin's final year before leaving, really.
     
  31. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Not also the year before? I was pretty certain we reviewed potential trade partners or probable cuts for talent at that position , and GB was one that came up?
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They kept five tight ends in Green Bay in 2011 because they kept both D.J. Williams (whom they drafted) and Ryan Taylor (a UDFA) but in the years before that they had a normal amount. I believe it was Finley, Crabtree and Quarless pretty much every year until you get far enough back that Donald Lee was on the roster.
     
  33. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    why do i get never ending feeling that miami will draft just another batch of average players . Remember when Miami would sign more players all through out the season and make trades . now all we do is sit and let our rivials sign the better players.

    I hope that this false sense of a win doesnt Guarantee us another trip down average player island with Jeff Ireland.

    On the flip side i am pleased with beating seattle it may be the biggest win in awhile.
     
  34. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Who did the Pats/Bills/Jets sign over the offseason that made you wish we were the ones making the move?

    The best free agent to sign in the AFCE was Mario Williams, and if you would feel good about giving him a $96 million deal, you're alone there. Well, you and Ralph.

    Next best was Soliai. We re-signed him. We also got Richard Marshall, which, at the time, was a great move.

    The Jets resigned Pouha, but with Soliai in the fold, it's not like we needed a lesser version of him.

    The Jets also signed LaRon Landry (obviously juiced out of his mind and with a messed up achilles) for $4 million. He's been a good signing for them, but he's a scumbag, eats PEDs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and an injury risk. Don't tell me you would've signed Landry to that deal if you were GM.

    So who? Yeremiah Bell?
     
  35. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I wonder if Phillip Lutzenkirchen could be used the same way John Kuhn is used in Green Bay in 1-back sets.
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    we have clay.
     
  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm pretty surprised we haven't seen more of Charles Clay on that role this year, for that matter.
     
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  38. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Makes two of us.
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Evidence of the rookie learning curve is evident year after year after year. We see it all the time, and in fact I'd argue that we see it during the first few years more often not see it, and TE is certainly not an exception.
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Not necessarily. It was expected that he'd be a project.... to the point that you're basically splitting hairs here.
    Jimmy Graham might become the best receiving TE of all time when it's all said and done, so you're actually doing my argument a favor by bringing up his 300 something yard rookie year when considering his stats inflated to astronomical numbers during year 2. Are you saying Jimmy Graham performed at a Jimmy Graham level as a rookie, or was it merely a fraction of it?..... And secondly, are you actually comparing Egnew to Graham, as if anything less than Graham's rookie year performance is an indictment of career failure (especially when Egnew entered the NFL physically less mature than Graham, Gronk, Gresham, Pettigrew, and Vernon Davis as rookies)?



    Thirdly, do you know what position Philbin & Co are grooming Egnew for?
    Will he be an Hback to where the learning curve is less steep and the physical requirements are less demanding, just as Aaron Hernandez was afforded, hence enabling him to make an impact as a rookie?.... or are we trying to convert him into a true #1 type TE who can play inline Y as well as be moved around the field to where he's tasked with essentially learning and executing a NEW position, gaining the increased size/strength needed to meet the physical requirements of the position, as well as learning and perfecting a variety of other routes so that we can move him around the field to create mismatches? Seriously, if all we wanted to do was use him in a Hernandez type role he most likely would've been catching passes by now; however, b/c of athleticism, great measurables, and size/length (6'5 and now reportedly 255 lbs, up from the 240'ish range he played at last year), Philbin could be viewing him as Fasano's replacement and, as such, coach is perhaps more concerned with getting Egnew ready to take over Fasano's position rather than possibly delaying his development for the sake of seeing a few yards this year even though we already have Fasano & Clay on the field.
     
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