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Under Pressure: Jake Long must prove he fits in

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by xphinfanx, May 22, 2012.

  1. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Not sure if serious.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Sigh.

    I hate the ****ing media sometimes.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, some of the same things I've said about Big Jake so it comes as no surprise.

    I do think the idea that he won't fit into Philbin's system is absurd, the real problem is his cap number for his position imo.

    Hard to sink that much of your cap into the OL.
     
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  5. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    No, we're not having this conversation. It's just too ridiculous.
     
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  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe they should look at like a Michigan game from when Long was there
     
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  7. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    ....Good night.
     
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  8. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Again with this crap?
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Jake Long will be a good player in any system.

    But Joe Thomas got a 8 year, $92 million contract.

    Considering that Green Bay offense got along just fine with Marshall effing Newhouse at left tackle, the question to ask is, does Jake Long fit the system so well that he's worth $11 or $12 million a year long term with a **** ton of guaranteed?

    I think it's a fair question, however Jeff Ireland will re-sign Jake Long no matter what. He has to. Letting Jake go would be a de facto admission that he made the wrong call on Jake Long over Matt Ryan.
     
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  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    How do you get Leaner than Jake Long?
     
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  11. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Did this guy read some of those "Jake Long can't play LT threads" on here?
     
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  12. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Is Sessler still in junior high? He begins his argument saying that Long isn't the type of player that fits into Philbin's scheme and then he says that the problem is cap space. Very poor job at writing.
     
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  13. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    My head explodes when comes to financial matters, so I won't even get into that; however, Football 101 dictates that games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage, so isn't that where you should invest?
     
  14. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    That would be too easy, and would remove their ability to have a 'story', because right now thats what it is - a story. The story is mostly make believe but what the hell, who likes dealing with reality.

    If we talk about cap numbers etc, fine thats a different story, but playing in this system? To me thats not a question.
     
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  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Return on investment, look at it this way:

    There are 5 Olinemen, the reason why Long was thought to be valuable is "he protects the Qb's blindside". Which is true, however the way defenses work now with blitzes by defensive backs and moving your best passrusher around the formation, that value is reduced. Sort of like having Revis cover Bess, his high salary is effectively negated by forcing him to cover a player who is not likely to hurt the defense with a big play in the first place.

    This concept was lost on parcells in 08. Ireland's approach has been to sink high value resources into the OL, however, what the best teams tend to do is use those same resources on players who create Td's and under pay for OLinemen. A change in how the game is played from Parcells halycon days and really from KC's powerhouse days in the 90's and early 00's when Ireland was in KC.

    Think of the salary cap as having 122 pennies, teams like the Saints and Giants have most of their pennies used on playmakers, the Dolphins have most of ours dedicated to..offensive linemen, the results really could not by more clear. To keep Long means we continue with that strategy.
     
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  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Long is one of the top offensive linemen in the NFL. The only way I see him not remaining a Dolphin after the 2012 season is if he has another injury riddled season this year. If he is able to overcome the injuries of the past two seasons and return to the player he was prior to these injuries, I see him playing LT for the Dolphins for years to come.

    The view that he doesn't fit the new offensive scheme the Dolphins will run is just a bunch of BS , as far as I am concerned.
     
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  17. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    There is one part of the potential "getting rid of Jake Long" idea that I think has some rationality to it. And that is what you're hinting at I think. On his best day, Jake Long can only negate 1 player on defense. He does play a critical position and he plays it very well. But if you can find someone who can adequately play the position to the point there the impact on production / sacks allowed is marginal for a fraction of the cost, at some point it starts to make sense. Easier said than done though. So I think you can absolutely have a rational dollars and cents discussion about Jake Long. But I think when the media tries to paint Jake Long as being a player on a "hot seat" and having something to prove in this league is where it gets ridiculous.

    It's Martin that has something to prove if this idea has any merit. Not Jake Long.
     
  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    :lol:

    The only thing I agree with is the contract. Its going to have to be huge probably. Then the only other thing I'd question with Jake is his health. Other than that, he can play anywhere. Hell, if I remember correctly, Michigan ran alot of zone blocking when he was there, and he handled it well enough to be the #1 overall pick. I wouldn't be to worried.
     
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  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's no special scheme secrets that the Packers use to devalue tackles or make them any less important than any other team. Marshall Newhouse was one of the worst left tackles in the NFL last season, and the only reason the Packers didn't suffer for it is that Aaron Rodgers is very good.
     
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  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Giants left tackle was a pressure allowing machine as well.

    And that would also mean a Qb can make the Oline better, but the OL does not make the Qb better.
     
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  21. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Pads, don't completely disagree and having Martin is a bargaining chip for Ireland as he works on a deal with Long, but in this new age of rookie salary cap you are going to have that happen at various positions all the time. Now, Jake is under the old system and has cost more, but if Martin supplants Long next year [if they don't intend to re-sign him] and becomes an all pro LT, come 2015 he'll be up against the same issue with Martin, won't he ? I mean a premier LT is like a premier QB or pass rushing DE or elite CB...you have to keep those guys, even tho you are going to pay thru the nose for them... I don't buy that exchanging a lesser player for Long is a good move, unless Long wants to move on and is asking for QB money not LT money...

    And I agree that the initial premise of Long not fitting in this scheme is ludicrous...
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thing is, what happens when that left tackle, or your all pro Te Egnew, both are up for new deals?

    Recall the saints let their all pro left tackle walk, kept Colston, and kept winning.
     
  23. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    You need to pay the playmakers. Jake may be on the hotseat because of injuries and money, but not playing in a different scheme. And never underestimate the money part.
     
  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not saying you can't survive without a high quality LT. You can win a Super Bowl without good players at any specific position- Including quarterback.

    I don't see how you can at all defend the idea a left tackle can't make a quarterback better.
     
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  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Said left tackle also wasn't very good at that point.
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Joe Thomas and Jake Long, both top 5 picks, neither have more than one winning season, they simply are not difference makers.

    Defenses have changed to much to think a left tackle is simply going to negate pressure on the Qb, that is 1980's thinking. So when you sink that much of your cap and resources into the position you are actually engaging in a futile strategy. A Cb on a blitz is far more likely to cause more problems then the pass rusher the left tackle is blocking.
     
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  27. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    A left tackle can protect a QB better, but he can't help a mediocre QB be anything more than a mediocre QB, IMHO.
     
  28. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When you blitz a cb you also give the offense the opportunity for a big play.

    Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As it is with any blitz, however this the way the NFL is going.
     
  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is evidence of...What? That Left Tackle isn't enough to single-handedly win games? Which fails to separate them from virtually everyone in the league.

    Jake Long pretty much negates whatever pressure he's responsible for. And what you're suggesting applies to any position in a "unit" with 1v1 match-ups. That pretty much devalues every position besides quarterback as negligible. No player can single-handedly "solve" an aspect of game play besides sometimes quarterbacks.
     
  31. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    This is why in today's game, OL is a waste of resources IMO....the game is about the skill players....sure you need guys to block, and run schemes....however I would rather give 30M guaranteed to another position....

    As far as Long "fitting in" thats crap, the guy has earned his respect, and the right not to be questioned about fitting in.....
     
  32. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    ROFL maybe this guy was the one asking (really) on here.

    Make one wonder who is reading these threads sometimes.
     
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  33. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can justify ANY position being unimportant through that logic. Is pass rush unimportant, because by extension protecting against it is? The Patriots have been successful with an awful pass defense, is that now unimportant?
     
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  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I have to laugh at the thought of Egnew being a future all pro TE. The history of Missouri TE"s are that they are great in college and are flops in the NFL. I think Egnew will be a very average TE at the NFL level and I think the Dolphins would have been better off at that the TE position if they had offered a seventh round draft pick to the Bucs for Kellen Winslow Jr.
     
  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    LT's are not difference makers, seems clear enough.

    Well gosh, then if he does not score td's, why sink that many resources into the position instead of using them on guys who do create plays?
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, this seems clear the problem is the "win in the trenches" stuff is so ingrained some cannot see what a bad proposition it is.
     
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  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know that's your opinion, but what you're claiming doesn't actually support it.

    Because that's a very fantasy football/Madden point of view that isn't actually in practice in the NFL?

    The benefit of good pass blocking is pretty evidence. You can put more players into routes, run deeper routes, players have more time to get open, etc. and so on. It not being directly measurable does not make it unimportant.
     
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  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Of course.


    Hmm, and yet Giants, Saints, both had mediocre to poor tackles, ditto colts and steelers and all are among the most successful teams over the last 5 yrs.

    They have invested heavily in td scoring positions
     
  39. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    as much as i like jake, 12 million a year is a lot for someone who is not touching the football
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can do this for literally every single position or area of play on the field including quarterback.
     

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