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UnVax'd Beasley will miss game

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Dec 21, 2021.

  1. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    No one is making you delete anything.. if there's a topic about an unvaxxed player you don't think any of this will come up?
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I'm not getting into some drawn out argument. These are moderated forums. Some rules/guidelines apply. Everything just works much better when people are considerate of that and exercise a little self-discipline. There have been plenty of explanations about the limitations on political/politically related threads. Discussing how COVID relates to the NFL gives a football based avenue to explore this topic. It should, theoretically, act an anchor to keep the topic from drifting off into strange waters. That's the idea anyway. Of course, rules on not getting personal/insulting still apply and as is ALWAYS the case with these topics, some people can't seem to keep themselves from it.

    We can all have our moments, that's fine. I'd like to think we're understanding about that. I try to be. But people posting stuff they expect to get deleted?

    Just follow the rules, be respectful, keep it tethered to football.
     
    Puka-head and Silverphin like this.
  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    It’s not my job, nor do I or most anyone, including NFL players have the ability to “understand mechanisms of mRNA and immune systems. Like most everyone here, as well as NFL players neither have the medical nor scientific knowledge or expertise to understand and comprehend such language and data.

    That’s the responsibility of the medical and scientific community that have nothing to gain to explain and educate Joe Average, including NFL players the pros and cons, the potential risks, long term effects, historical data so we the people can make INFORMED decisions for our own benefit.

    To say, “there’s reliable information out there, all you gotta do is look for it” doesn’t spur any confidence nor motivation…especially when the only motivation is government or employer mandates that say get it or lose your job.

    Like Beasley, I have done research after research and have found that I fall into the category of having a 99% chance of survival should I contract Covid. If it were a 99% chance mortality rate, this wouldn’t be a conversation for me and other NFL players. But since I fall into the former category, “you” and your unlimited government provided assets need to find what’s going to persuade me, Beasley and millions of others getting this particular vaccine is in my best interest.
     
    resnor, canesz06 and aesop like this.
  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You don't understand. You're not going to know what information to trust if you don't understand the underlying mechanisms. That's the root cause of why all that misinformation has such influence. I gave you a great starting point to learn that stuff and even offered to help. You're not interested, so be it.
     
  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    That's not necessarily true Brad. I'm sure Beasley holds similar views as I do and whenever I see Fauci open his mouth, I can't trust a single thing that man says. Consistency and integrity are everything in the field of medicine and the only thing consistent about Fauci is his draconian desire to FORCE a needle into everyone's arm. His integrity is completely shot and he never...NEVER conveys COMPLETE information concerning this virus.

    Marc Siegal and Nicole Sapphire on the other hand consistently give COMPLETE information on this virus and it's THEIR messaging that makes me consider going ahead and getting it. "Here's the information...here's the data and the actual numbers, current situation, threat, risks, deaths as a result thereof, hospitalizations as a result thereof, therapeutics available, ramifications, etc.. I personally believe people should be vaccinated but consult with your doctor..." THAT is how you provide information...educate the populous and give positive sound advice...ADVICE, not overreaching, draconian, authoritative mandates that we're seeing from the government and corporations, including the NFL.

    It's utterly amazing to me. The opposite end of the political spectrum is being more convincing to me that maybe I will get the vaccine rather that the draconian oppressive side of get it or lose your ability to live your life. If other medical professionals would be as forthcoming and provide unbiased situational and advice-based information rather than what's being spewed from the government now, the Bills would have further destroyed the Patriots because I'm quite certain folks like me and Beasley would be more inclined to get vaccinated...voluntarily and willingly...not through coercion.
     
    canesz06 likes this.
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You just proved my point. Marc Siegel said this:
    https://www.mediamatters.org/sean-h...rse-case-scenario-coronavirus-it-could-be-flu
    And you think this guy gives "complete" information. No one with an understanding of epidemiology and with integrity on the subject would have made that statement. But you can't tell because you don't understand, or care to understand, the science. There's no shortcut here. You have to know the science to not get so easily fooled, and you just proved that you're really easily fooled.
     
  7. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Why is it that in NY, people who are double vaxxed and boostered still have to get tested before returning to work? How come vaxxed and boosterd people are still getting covid? It seems that you're the one that's easily fooled.

    At first it was wear a mask. Then it was if you get the vaccine, you don't have to wear a mask. Now it's get the vax and the booster and wear a mask. Who falls for this ****?
    I had covid in April. I was sick for two weeks. It was like a really bad flu. My immune system worked exactly like it was supposed to. I don't need a vaccine and I will never get it
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I never defended CDC policy. I think they dropped the ball on all kinds of things, especially their back-and-forth messaging. Even doctors complain about that. And I'm certainly not defending some company's policy. That's not the issue though. When you have entire media outlets broadcasting misinformation and doing little to stop it, and many anti-vax people using all kinds of lies to argue their point, you have a problem far more serious than debates about what policy is most appropriate.

    Regarding what's best for you, you might not need the vaccine. I'm pretty certain I didn't. I only got it due to workplace requirements. But as a matter of how best to get to a point where we can live with the virus — emphasis on the word "we" as in society — you're going to need at the very minimum something close to a vaccine mandate for at-risk individuals. I can agree this could be targeted to just those individuals, but we're getting nowhere with all that misinformation or some claim about individual liberty that causes harm to society.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  9. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I'm wondering if the NFL is going to make getting the flu vaccine mandatory...since the symptoms for the flu are far worse than the omicron variant of Covid.
     
    canesz06 likes this.
  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Everyone should just consult with their doctor. It makes way more sense than waiting for someone that fits in with their political views.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  11. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Doctors that have spoken out against the vaccine have been ostracized. It's follow the narrative or else....
     
    aesop likes this.
  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Then THAT should be the end of it…period! No two people are alike. Aaron Rodgers hasn’t taken the vaccine as he has an allergy to the egg component in the vaccine. Shut up and leave it alone.

    My brother in law can’t take the vaccine due to the alcohol component in the vaccine. He has a DEATHLY allergic reaction to any form of alcohol.

    Both have had Covid. Both have natural immunity to it…just like any other virus that anyone has had and developed immunity to.

    If a doctor tells his/her patient not to take the vaccine for reasons A, B or C then that should be the end of the discussion and that patient shouldn’t be ostracized by the masses.

    Those with this zero tolerance mentality and sense of elitism that know better than you do nothing but infuriate those of us trying to live our lives in peace.

    If Rodgers is sick, he’s sick
    If Beasley is sick, he’s sick
    If TDK gets sick, then I’m sick

    That what God created medical insurance for and therapeutics to treat this, or any other illness for

    On the other side of the coin, if we’re not sick, then we’re not sick. Leave us alone. I’m not hurting you. And if you are vaccinated…the vaccine you keep touting I should have, then you have nothing to worry about. You’re gonna be just fine.
     
    canesz06 likes this.
  13. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100% but you are replying to someone that essentially says don't trust your doctor. They are "in on it". Anything to back up what they want to believe.
     
  14. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    When did I say don't trust your doctor? But, if you've got some doctors pushing the vaccine and others saying not to take it, you're gonna listen to the one who thinks like you do. I assume you're vaccinated? If your doctor said not to take it, would you still have gotten it?
     
  15. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I can't say its not something I would have revisited but I certainly wouldn't have got it at the time if my doctor said no.

    I would say I believe a lot of people wouldn't ask their doctors opinion on this because they know what they would say and its not the answer they want.
     
    canesz06 likes this.
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cbrad, Fauci AND Redfield themselves said that covid would end up no worse than the flu. TO THIS DAY, covid (covid isn't even a disease, it's a set of symptoms, but whatever) has A LOWER FATALITY than the flu, for people under the age of 70. You keep talking about the vax, but I haven't once heard you talk about myocarditis. I haven't once heard you mention that reported injuries and deaths associated with the covid injections, in what, one year, are more than ALL THE OTHER VAXXES GIVEN COMBINED. In the history of VAERS. That incredibly concerning. I haven't heard you mention that if you were infected with SARS Cov-1, you have strong immunity already.

    I have no problem with someone who decides that they should take the vaccine. I have a massive problem with ANYONE telling me that I MUST take this injection, or any injection. That's immoral and evil. If you must take something to gain freedom, then you aren't free.

    Last thing I'll say, I watch these mayors/governors/politicians who are instituting all these mandates, and THEY aren't following their own advice. So, while I see Americans posting Christmas pictures of themselves or family members sitting in literal plastic boxes, because they're worried about covid, I , on the other hand see the people telling us we're all gonna die without masks and vaxxes running around at packed holiday parties maskless. They don't even believe the bull**** that their shoving down your earholes.
     
    aesop likes this.
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    OK first of all COVID is a disease, and it is by definition because they'd identified the pathogen. Second, it's a bit tricky to directly compare flu vs. COVID mortality because they're not reported the same way, but studies keep coming out attempting to do so and generally you see the bifurcation happening in the mid 40's or possibly 50's, not people under 70. Third, the reason you have so many reported injuries and deaths in VAERS with the COVID vaccine is because of its high prevalence. If COVID only affected a tiny percentage of the population you wouldn't see many reports in VAERS. It's a public health issue precisely because of its prevalence.

    Regarding immunity, I actually responded to that one but the post got deleted. The main thing I pointed out was that immunity is very much age-dependent. You shouldn't just assume an older person infected with COVID will have strong immunity afterwards, and if they do it's likely not to last anywhere near as long as for a younger person. Also, the math for immunity depends on how many variants there are. That's why they keep developing vaccines for new variants of the flu each year. So no you can't just assume immunity will be strong after COVID, especially for the most at-risk groups.

    As far as Fauci and co., I haven't listened to them much because I didn't like how they were presenting information early on in 2020. I especially didn't like how they presented the models that estimated deaths etc. because they didn't do anything to educate the public about how those models work, i.e., what assumptions they're built on, and the types of uncertainties in them. I personally would have let the actual experts speak (i.e. the people actually developing those models), not Fauci. Fauci communicates with those people but that's a far cry from understanding the details. People are highly specialized and that should have been leveraged in communicating to the public IMO.

    Your comment about politicians I have no disagreement with, but regarding mandates and personal freedom, anytime you live in a society that needs to function through people cooperating you will have to give up personal freedom. How much? Depends on the nature of the government of course and the severity of the situation. Even in the US we had a draft, sending people unwillingly to the battlefield to potentially get killed, or putting them in jail if they refused. During WW2 we even removed many facets of the "free" market economy. You can say that's war so that's understandable, but more people have died from COVID than any war the US has ever fought!

    So there's nothing in principle wrong with mandates. That's part of what government sometimes has to and should do to provide a relatively safe environment for its citizens. That of course doesn't mean I agree with much of what our government has done.
     
    Silverphin likes this.
  18. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I read Beasley is going to play now.
     

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