Almost hope he gets fired to see if there's any more truth to the matter. probably not, but I can hope!

 

Standard Ops

From Jennyt Vrentas' (Star Ledgar) Twitter

http://twitter.com/#!/jennyvrentas

Done deal.

 

I'm sure Westhoff and/or Rex never saw it when they watched the game film Sunday nights. Couldn't have.

 

Is there anything illegal about this "wall" if there is no intentional tripping involved?

It seems to me like guys stand pretty close to the field on every play.

Don't get me wrong, I'm down for some Jet bashing, but I'm honestly not sure there is anything they did wrong outside of the intentional act of one lunatic

 

is there anything illegal about forming a wall on your side of the sidelines? seems like a smart move to me. the problem as i see it isnt the wall but rather the deliberate movement by the coach when carroll looked to avoid it.

 

As far as I know, you can't intentionally impede the gunner down there. The gunner has to immediately re-enter the field of play if he's knocked out of bounds, and therefore those on the sideline must make an effort not to get in his way.

Like Eric Winston said yesterday, "You've got a guy in full pads running full speed down the sideline at a bunch of guys in street clothes, and they're not moving out of the way?"

The NFL is frowning upon this.

 

Acted on his own my ***.

 

They are reviewing previous games and this isn't over, one player fessed up , if more comes out that coaches knew/encouraged there will much more to this.

That a coach knowingly put the health/career of a player in danger by his overt actions is incredulous.

 

would they have even addressed it if zach thomas hadn't called them out yesterday?

 

Precisely.

The Jests coaches/players were also standing over the line of advancement. Now, most times it's not really called as long as you're out of bounds, but that may soon change after this.

Also, I wonder how all of those people who gave props to Alosi for "coming clean" feel about this now?

 

It always comes back to the possibility of a serious injury. Not just to the gunner running down the field but to the personnel on the sidelines. I am just thankful that no one was seriously hurt in this incident. With all the emphasis that the NFL is putting on injury prevention ala. quarterbacks are not to be touched (sarcasm), what about the other players. They have just as much right to a long and fruitful career even though they are not one of the glory boys. Alosi will get what is coming to him, but I do not for a second believe that either Rex Ryan or another coach knew nothing about this type of behavior.

 

Where does it read anyplace in that article that they have been doing it " all year " ? Sensationalism is a bad disease .

 

There isn't a strength coach in the NFL that does not think their schlong is the largest on the planet earth. Problem is, their brains are usually the size of peanuts. This incident proves it.

 

readmucks post.

 

As I understand it, as long as they are behind the white line (and don't stick any knees out) there is nothing in the rules to prevent it.

In the old days you might have called that "gamesmanship".

 

Muck should have included the :shifty: in this comment.

 

There isn't a rule prohibiting it, like it or not. The problem is that it allows perhaps even promotes situations like Alosi got into this week. To me, if there is an issue it's that a) supposedly Ryan, Westhoff and the rest of the staff knew nothing about it happening all year long and b) while there isn't a specific rule that prohibits that type of formation along the sidelines, it certainly violates the unwritten sportsmanship rules of any team doing this. All teams are looking for an edge on the opposition. Stealing signals, stealing verbal calls at the line, squeezing the gunners like this, lip reading, whatever it's all to get an edge on your opponent. How far is too far...well, this is one of them because it could have injured our guy or any of those guys standing along the sidelines not in pads... It's just another chance for the NFL to tighten up it's rules to keep teams from 'crossing the line' when it comes to competitiveness.

 

Actually there are.

First, the "actual" sideline is 6ft wide. If you look at the picture you will see that the solid border is about 3ft wide and there is another white line about 3ft further from that. This, by rule, is where players, coaches, photographers etc, must stand behind. Now, it's rarely, if ever, enforced.

Now, during a KO, Punt etc, if a player is forced out of bounds he is still considered "live". Thus he must try to get back inbounds as soon as possible. It is ILLEGAL to interfere with a "live" player. It is ILLEGAL to impede the progress of or intentionally alter the route of a "live" player. It is ILLEGAL to form a "wall", permanent or temporary, anywhere inside of the 6ft boundary that surrounds every field in the NFL.

 

Exactly.

My take on this?

They lined up in this formation with the intent of giving an advantage to the Jets punt returner. By lining up with a wall immediately lined up on the sideline, they create a situation where the blocker can jam the gunner to the outside. If it works, one of two things happens. The gunner has to either slow down, giving the punt returner extra room to work with, or he collides into the group of players, effectively taking him out of the play.

What he was doing was dirty by every definition. When Carroll got bounced out before the wall, Alosi was probably upset that he was so close to influencing the play, and in a moment of panic/adrenaline extended the knee to try to affect the game. I doubt he was trying to injure Carroll, but he definitely was trying to prevent him from getting to the punt returner.

As I read Alosi is what, a strength and conditioning coach? Where does a Strength and Conditioning coach get the gameplan/idea to try to influence the game in such a manner? There's no way that he was not instructed to form that wall by others. I am fairly confident, however, that whoever ordered him to do that did not want him tripping people, just creating a small advantage for PRs.

 

They were given an order.


http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5922926
The New York Jets have suspended Sal Alosi indefinitely after the team got "new information" that the strength and conditioning coach "instructed" five players to stand in a wall before he tripped Dolphins player Nolan Carroll on Sunday.
Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum announced the punishment after Alosi was suspended for the rest of the season and fined $25,000 on Monday.
"Over the last day as we continued our investigation we discovered some new information," Tannenbaum said. "The players at the Miami game were instructed by Sal to stand where they were forcing the gunner in the game to run around them. Based on that new information we've suspended Sal indefinitely, pending further review."

SN: Did Sal Alosi act alone?
Did the Jets assistant coach order the wall or is Rex Ryan involved? You vote. SportsNation PollCenter
This isn't the first time that Alosi has ordered players to line up, according to a player who was in the line.
"We've been doing that since the beginning of the year, standing right there. Sunday was not the first time that we'd been doing that," Jets tight end Jeff Cumberland said.
"I mean, throughout the season you know things are going to happen but you never expect this to happen."
Cumberland said that Alosi wasn't explicit in explaining what the players were doing.
"He never really just gave a reason," Cumberland said. "He just said during punt return, 'You just stand right here by this line, everybody just stand right here.' There wasn't really a reason why. But we kinda figured just in case somebody ran over here."
Tannenbaum said that as soon as the team learned the new information, the Jets contacted NFL vice president of football operations Ray Anderson.
"They support this initial decision that we presented to them," Tannenbaum said. "The league is going to look into this as well, as well they should. Once we get all the information we'll make a final determination."
Tannenbaum was clear in what happened.
"Specifically when Miami was punting they were asked to stand there by him," he said.
Tannenbaum said Alosi acted alone, that he wasn't told by anyone in the organization to instruct players to stand in a line. Addressing the media Monday, Alosi claimed he wasn't instructed by anyone to create a human wall.
Cumberland backed that stance when asked if anyone else asked him to stand in the line. "Just Sal," he said.
Tannenbaum and coach Rex Ryan both insisted Monday that the players aren't coached to do that.
Tannenbaum said the team looked at the game film of the play and "it looked to me like it was unusual for them to be standing that way." The Jets interviewed the players who were standing near Alosi, but will not take any action against them.
"This is just about Sal," Tannenbaum said.
Could Alosi be fired for the move?
"All options are certainly on the table we're going to complete the review and get all the information," Tannenbaum said. "[Special teams coach] Mike Westhoff was not involved, Rex Ryan was not involved, but we just want to be thorough and get all the information."
Westhoff said in a Wednesday visit with the Waddle & Silvy Show on ESPN 1000 in Chicago that he wasn't involved.
"I had nothing to do with it, just to be honest with you," Westhoff said. "I didn't even know we were doing it. There was some organization to it."
But he also said that he 's noticed that the Jets aren't the only teams lining up on the sidelines during punts. The Patriots engage in similar tactics, he said.
"A number of teams do it," Westhoff said. "There is a pretty good team up north that lines their whole defense up when they do it, so it's something that just kind of happened."
Asked if he's saying the Patriots line up players to impede punt coverage teams, Westhoff elaborated: "Well, if you watch them, their defense when the opponents' punt team is out there, they're up there pretty close to the line, so it looks like they are trying to do it. Now are they doing anything illegal? Are they tripping anybody, heck no. I'm not saying that. That's not the point. But, yeah, they're lined up there. Is it making a difference? I don't know. I really don't know, because to tell you the truth, before this happened I never really looked at anybody's sideline in all my years."
Former Miami Dolphins linebacker Zach Thomas had accused the Jets Tuesday of deliberately forming a wall on their sideline to influence the Dolphins' gunner.

Jets blog
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the green and white? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered. Blog
Jets Center
Thomas was part of a growing faction that believes Alosi wasn't acting alone.
"They had to be ordered to stand there because they're foot to foot," Thomas said Tuesday on Miami radio station WQAM. "There's four of them, side to side -- five of them, I mean -- on the edge of the coaches' zone. They're only out there to restrict the space of the gunner.
"But there's more to it because I'm telling you, the only thing [Alosi] did wrong was intentionally put that knee out there. If he just stood there, there would never have been a problem, even if the guy got tripped. But there's more to this. He was ordered to stand there. No one is foot to foot on the sideline in the coaches' box."
There was a six-man line, starting with Alosi and defensive lineman Marcus Dixon (inactive). It's believed the other four also were inactive players. They were in a tight formation, almost like soccer players preparing to defend a direct kick. Their toes were right up against the boundary, with Alosi positioned in the corner of the coaches' box.
Carroll, meanwhile said Wednesday that he has found it difficult to get away from replays of the tripping episode.
He said he has seen the replay on TV more times than he can count.
The contact of the trip did cause a muscle spasm in Carroll's right leg, which he broke last year, but he later returned to the game. The Dolphins reserve said he has received lots of text messages and phone calls from concerned friends in the wake of the incident.

 

This isn't the first time that Alosi has ordered players to line up, according to a player who was in the line.
"We've been doing that since the beginning of the year, standing right there. Sunday was not the first time that we'd been doing that," Jets tight end Jeff Cumberland said.

This is from another article...

 

I'd love to put Rex Ryan on the stand.

Funny how the lines almost match up perfectly

 

Funny, my script has incoherent stammering under the sound of chicken shrimp being chomped on.

 

lol

 

But there is..

The Rulebook also has a diagram...



Even without the actual trip, by rule, the Jets' 'wall' formation was illegal because the wall was formed with inactives, as opposed to (active) substitution players.

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2010/12/who-ordered-the-jets-sideline-wall

 

Nice...need to swap Sanitago with Carrol, Jessep with Rex/Alosi etc...

It's very funny

 

dont run near the sideline. I think any team using the wall made a smart decision. Its a way of controlling the sideline and forcing the action inside thereby making it a smaller field. Its an area not addressed by any rules and therefore a smart strategy. That is not to say that purposely leaning into a player is legal. Thats what made that play egregious, not the formation of the wall

edit: thx to fanpatsyland i retract this post. if they werent allowed to be that close to the sideline then its illegal in its entirety. Its a shame the NFL hasnt been enforcing this rule

 

It seems your sarcasm meter is broken today. ;)

 

Thinking about it and why Westoff would line them up like that, and trust this, Westoff is the one who designed this. But why? My theory is they're trying to get the gunner out of bounds right before their makeshift wall. All in hopes that the Gunner will have to go behind that wall to get back in bounds. All this in hopes that their return man can gain the corner and be up the sidelines with one less tackler to worry about and in many cases it would leave him to only have to beat the punter/kicker to score.

That's why they've been doing it all season because if it works and no one sees, or realizes why, then it is Genius....

 

To clarify, I updated the thread title after I added my post.

Garden is in the clear. :)

Sorry for the confusion

 

But....it is addressed....it is illegal. I and then FanInPatsyLand both pointed out that fact.

 

Per Jason LaCanfora

If the head of officiating says it's against the rules, it's against the rules. :)

 

It was also inside of the 6ft "chain crew and official only" area.

 

Just another huge fine coming, nothing else will/should come of this. It hasn't changed the outcome of any games, it's just a douche thing to do. Just fine their asses and let's get on with it.

 

More than that, it's another black eye for the Jets.

Something everyone should love. :)

 

...and it won't be the last this season.

Stay, classy NYJ :up: