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Vernon - Transition Tag placed

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    If Miami is going to go 6-10 - 7-9 again why even bother. Hell even if Miami managed to over achieve and go 9-7, 9-7 isn't going to get us into the playoffs. Not with NE guarding the gate. Cut em all, flush the cap and start a total rebuild. I think in the long run we would come out better quicker. However, I have absolutely zero confidence in Tannenblow because he will continue to over pay as he has demonstrated since coming here. If we continue to try and double down and provide stop gaps we are doomed because Tannenblow will continue to over pay. Right now with a week to go until Free Agency we sit 3.5 m over. Looks like free agency is going to be a long road ahead. I am sure Wake and OV will play hardball and use FA to try and leverage their contracts. If I was Wake and OV I would tell Miami to go pound sand. Someone is going to give them their money. Lets hope Miami is smart enough to make it happen. Creating 2 more huge holes to fill with where we are at is just cutting off your nose off to spite your face. Something I expect Tannenblow to probably do. I hate that guy. Worst move we have made since hiring Pornstache.
     
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  2. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I'm not sure what business Tannenbaum has evaluating players. Hindsite is 20/20, but I wonder if Tannenbaum having a hard on for Jordan Phillips, an under achieving DT with a bad back, was worth that critical 2nd rd pick. If we had Jake Fisher at OT or Ronald Darby at CB we'd be much better off, Darby was there for our original 2nd rd pick and Fisher was drafted right after Phillips. Quentin Coples was a waste of money last year.

    I just can't wrap my head around Vernon at $12.7 million per year or more. Can't do it. Again, him and Mitchell equal about $20 mil if Vernon gets his $15 mil. Grimes is just about $10 mil. Screw that. I'd rather pay Wake and Shelby, spend the other money on other defensive needs and OG.
     
  3. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I'm with you guys on not trying to waste money in free agency. Just doesn't make sense long term. We've already got some young studs who need to play and develop. Lippett, Bobby McCain, Ajayi, etc. Just draft bpa that fits our scheme.

    ...and don't let Goff slip by us for the love of God.
     
  4. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Interesting Dline there, 4 big slow guys, they'd be great vs the run, but not much passrush, and you'd also need good rangy LBs behind to chase the edge and cover the middle, but it would probably give Suh more room to operate.

    Not a fan at all of Nkemdiche, bad production in college and character questions.
     
  5. Rex Deus

    Rex Deus Guest

    We're letting other teams set the market for him, which is poor business practice. Why not be aggressive with the players you want to keep? Put together a proper offer and get him signed up - we may even get a hometown discount.

    Letting him go to the market shows we're not that keen (which is exactly what OV's agent will now be telling him). So why we are going through the charade of using the T/Tag on him? Makes no sense.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Ok, this all comes to how much the team is willing to spend on OV at this time ("at this time" is an important caveat because there are FA and draft options out there as of now. That, of course, may change as those options dwindle.)

    So, you have to have a cap you're willing to spend on anything. That cap may even be (and generally is) a range. So the team id obviously not willing to spend $15.7m on OV, but they are willing to spend $12.7m. That means they're prepared to lose him if his price goes over their cap range. Again, you can't just have an unlimited number you're willing to pay. So through negotiations they learn OV wants more than $12.7m. Now, maybe you're willing to go up to $14m as the top of your range. So you set a transition tag at $12.7m hoping the market doesn't value him more than the top of your range, another team makes an offer and its under or at your range, then boom he stays a Dolphin. If they offer him more, then he's out of the price range you were willing to spend on the player and that happens. This tag is the BEST solution for a team that wants to try and keep a player but not overspend on them.

    Hell, it may just turn out that the market doesn't value him as high as the franchise tag anyway. Maybe not, we don't know ye, but that's the gamble.
     
  7. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    A bit ambitious of me with that DL, but I wouldn't call Buckner or Nkemdiche slow, both can move and turn the corner. I think that Nkemdiche's character concerns are overblown, we'll see, top 3 talent imo with Ramsey and Jack. Wake would be the pass rush specialist, maybe another guy like Ochi. But I'd think that Buckner is best suited as a 3-4 DE and we already rolled the bones on Phillips so Nkemdiche would be a bit superflous- but the dude can play, very talented and I could see him at DT or DE, again probably more of a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. Chase LBs like Terrance Smith, Eric Striker, Travis Feeney and Deoin Jones would work there, but a real and more likely fit for what we want as a 4-3 DE would be Charles Tapper imo. He might be a heck of a value for us in the middle rounds, we could also target Shaq Lawson or Kevin Dodd earlier.

    It's just my point of view, but especially in this draft full of DL I let Vernon, Mitchell and Grimes walk and pocket that $30 mil to spend elsewhere. I'm also intrigued by QB Jared Goff, but I do think that it would be a shame to not, for the love of Pete, get Tannehill a solid OL and see what he can do. We have his salary to deal with as well in 2017, but I think the bones have been rolled on that one, Rubicon in the rear view mirror.

    All of these freaking draft simulators- I don't recall, ever, us having so many team needs. I keep coming to the conclusion that in a perfect world we trade down about 5-8 picks and take Reggie Ragland, pick up an extra 2nd rd pick as use it on OG Joshua Garnett. Later in the draft OGs (college Centers) Jack Allen and Graham Glasgow are real options for me. Ragland is a smart, efficient thumper at MLB, imo problem solved and he'd be great cleaning up behind Suh and the DL. He's a big, thick dude and ran a 4.7 at the combine, plenty athletic for a MLB imo. I like Jenkins and Hewitt at weak side OLB, but for a smaller pressure LB there are several to choose from, and that Eric Striker from Oklahoma is a hell raiser.

    Regardless, the simple version at DE- draft Charles Tapper in the 4th round to replace Vernon and that big salary, use the money on CB, FS LB or OG and I'll be a happy camper. If Wake gets back 100% I think that we could roll with him, Shelby and Tapper at DE, no problem. Fede fell off the radar a bit, but I still like him. If Dion Jordan doesn't come back as a LB, at least to see what he can do, I have no interest seeing him at DE. I never was a fan of moving Billy Turner to OG, especially given how good his feet are and how athletic he is, but the position move of Jordan from OLB to DE is one of the dumbest things I've seen this team do. I'm also inclined to think that Chris McCain should have stayed at OLB, like Jordan he's too lanky to play DE. There are always exceptions, and as per lanky DE's I would say that Jason Taylor was an exception, Jordan and McCain can't cut it at DE imo.
     
  8. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    That makes sense, but imo the problem is that Vernon is not worth $12.7 million. So if he wants $15 million and settles for $14 million, did we get a bargain there? It's all opinion, and many like Dave Hyde iirc think that Vernon will walk and get his full asking price, or close to it. The questions, at the end of the day, are whether or not Vernon is that good, is he replacable and can we spend all that money better elsewhere? I'm starting to zero in on Charles Tapper as a solid, all around 4-3 DE replacement for Vernon, he's significantly faster than Vernon as well.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    In that situation, its not about a bargain, its about not over paying for OV. If $14m is the top of their range, and that's what they get him for, then it was the right call.
     
  10. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Understood, but imo having a $14 million valuation on a pretty good DE is not smart from a football or business point of view. Vernon is a good player, not a great player, and he's replaceable. Getting rid of him, Mitchell, Grimes and Jennings- there's about $34 million right there, enough for a shopping spree to flesh out the roster. We can get quality players at CB, FS and a couple of OGs with that money. Vernon is a good, solid player, pretty good pass rusher and an adequate run defender. That doesn't equate to $14-15/yr million to me, especially on a roster full of holes, jmo.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That may also be true. The market, however, is it what it is.

    We won't know what the market is (and neither will the Dolphins) until someone makes a counter offer.

    My only point of contention is that people are acting like we should have spent $15.7m and a franchise tag instead of what we did offer.
     
  12. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I'm not a real big fan of the transition tag, but if we did franchise Vernon imo we're basically buying him, I can't imagine any team being stupid enough to pay Vernon $15.7 million and cough up two 1st rd picks for the privilege, not gonna happen. I hope that Vernon gets his money elsewhere.
     
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  13. Rex Deus

    Rex Deus Guest

    I don't disagree with you Fin D. (And for what it's worth, I don't think OV is worth $15.7m per year). I guess my point is that the T/Tag is a fairly useless tool, which is reflected in the fact that no other team seems to use it.
     
  14. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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  15. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    That's a good article and I mostly agree, but to play devil's advocate I'd say that Vernon has had a huge number of QB pressures as well, and a breakdown of those would be interesting- how many times were others the beneficiaries of Vernon's work?

    I like Vernon, but there's only so much money to go around. A good salary for him? Sure, he's deserved it. But he's just not THAT good to deserve big money that can go elsewhere in FA to repair this broken and needy roster. You don't pay a good player great money imo. Also, this paragraph from the article:

    "It’s relatively easy to spot creative pass-rushers, whether they are edge-rushers or interior linemen. These are the Von Millers, Ndamukong Suhs, Aaron Donalds, Cameron Wakes and Khalil Macks of the NFL. Of course, there are a few more throughout the league. But there aren’t many; this is the most valuable breed of defender."

    Two for us there if Wake can come back healthy, I'm for paying Wake if he's ok. Suh is special. Wake is special. Vernon- no so much. He's a good piece of the puzzle but not a core, must have kind of player. Let some other team overpay him. Use the Vernon, Grimes and Jennings money to start revbuilding the roster in FA, $30 million can go a long way IF SPENT CORRECTLY.
     
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  16. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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  17. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Only if we don't splurge on other high-priced FAs. I believe we would have received a comp pick for Clay had we not brought in Suh.
     
  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    [video=twitter;707574989663428609]https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/707574989663428609[/video]

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  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    ADMIN REQUEST - Can someone change the title to something like - 'Olivier Vernon - Franchise Tag Placed and Now Removed'?

    Thanks.
     
  20. Rex Deus

    Rex Deus Guest

    So, this time, it was just insurance while they tried to sign Williams...
     
  21. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Now we get compensation, and cap room....and the best news?

    We don't overpay and commit long term big cap to a 2B defensive end.

    Everyone saying we're "choosing" an older wake and williams over vernon, is not realizing, they're short term, small money deals.....Vernon would've cost 14mm a season for 5-7 years, and tons of guaranteed money that we didn't have. We aren't choosing Wake/Williams over OV....we are staying prepared for his ultimate departure.


    Darlington just now on NFL Network: Jags were going to offer a HEAVILY front-loaded contract to OV that miami "could not have possibly matched"
     
  22. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    [video=twitter;706095252197777408]https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy/status/706095252197777408[/video]
     
  23. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Suh/Williams/Wake/Phillips -- is a nice front four.
     
  24. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Yes! Yes! Yes!
    Send ov and his outrageous market price tag and penalties packing and keep wake home. This is great news. Would have loved to keep him but no doubt OV and the fins are universes apart. Looking forward to seeing what Williams can do.

    What an INSANELY talented line that will be, as it currently stands. Wow.
     
  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Vernon is going to get some crazy contract like $15 mil a year with like $50 mil guaranteed. No thanks.
     
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  26. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    [video=twitter;707604563059204096]https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/707604563059204096[/video]

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