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(Video) Joe Philbin Penalty Fail

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Mainge, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I noticed this during the game on Sunday and wanted to look at it again when I started cutting up the game for the Tannehill video. The situation is 2nd and 15 on the Buffalo 38. The Dolphins have just completed a pass for 16 yards, and the Bills have committed a defensive holding penalty on the play.

    What should have happened: Philbin should have declined the penalty, allowing the completed pass to stand. The Dolphins would have had the ball on the Buffalo 22.

    What actually happened: Philbin accepted the penalty, which moved the Dolphins up 5 yards from the Buffalo 38 to the Buffalo 33. This action cost the Dolphins a net of 11 yards for literally no reason.

    Video of the sequence: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d70_1410913357#HsGmzpCSLhYrXSpF.99
     
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  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Also, it looked like Gibson was not touched or out of bounds, so the officials blew the whistle when he should have been able to get up and run. That was the same drive Wallace caught the TD pass on, I think, so in the end we still got 7.

    Someone should have asked Philbin why he took the penalty there. Only thing I can imagine why would be if the official said it wasn't a clean catch. Looked good, but they did not show a replay closeup of Gibson going through the catch.
     
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  3. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    I wondered why he took that penalty instead of the catch and the yards unless he thought it might be challenged and ruled incomplete.
     
  4. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    It didn't look like they even asked him if he wanted to accept the penalty. And usually they don't bother asking if the result of the play is obviously better for the team. And I didn't see any official signal if it was a completed catch. That whole sequence was bizarre and the only thing I can think of is they ruled it was no catch or the refs just simply ****ed up and spotted it wrong and the team missed it.
     
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  5. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    If you listen to the audio they are saying there was a whistle that stopped the play. Not sure when or ho that changes things, but you can hear someone (sounds like on the sideline) saying that.
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sounds like you can hear Gibson saying nobody touched him, as he was walking back from the end zone.
     
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  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    If I remember correctly accepting the penalty was an automatic first down, which is probably why he accepted it.

    And by the way, Gibson was definitely not touched on that play. So we kind of got screwed there.
     
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  8. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Normal treatment.
     
  9. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    The catch is also for first down yardage.
     
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  10. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    I'm guessing they ruled him down at the 25 or 26.
     
  11. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'll have to watch the play again when I get home but I swore he was like 5 yards shy. If not, then yeah that's a bad job out of Philbin, unless they didn't rule it a catch or something.
     
  12. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Assumptions everywhere. Mic was out...whistle wrongly blown. I don't see philbin accept or decline anything.

    Just looks like a ref mess up.

    CK is trying to push this on twitter.

    This is a reach to attack or blame philbin, IMO
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've watched the play on NFL Rewind. I've watched it on Coaches Tape.

    It's crystal clear. Brandon Gibson caught a 15 yard ball on 2nd & 15 and Philbin accepted the 5 yard penalty rather than the 15 yard catch. He asked the officials for an explanation as to why they whistled Gibson down when he wasn't touched, they explained that it was an inadvertent whistle, and he accepted the penalty without thinking about whether a 15 yard catch would be preferable to a 5 yard penalty (which it was).

    No excuse for this. It's not a "reach". It is about as clear-cut as you're going to get.

    Additionally there was a play heading into halftime against the Patriots. It was 3rd & 3 at Miami's 27 yard line with 15 seconds left in the half. Tom Brady throws a pass to Kenbrell Thompkins in the end zone and misses him. Thompkins was flagged for offensive pass interference which should have been a 10 yard penalty putting the Patriots at 3rd & 13 from the 37 yard line with only 10 seconds left on the clock.

    Instead, Philbin declined the penalty.

    Why? Because he was afraid the Patriots might throw a 37 yard touchdown on the one play they would take before they had Gostkowski kick an unlikely 54 yard field goal.
     
  14. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    *shrugs* "I wanted Mike McCoy" - Jeff Ireland
     
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  15. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    so with the catch it wasn't a first down? I recall that sequence.. I think that was Odrick screaming about him not being touched. He was right. Was it clearly a completed pass?
     
  16. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    It was. This team simply can't catch a break. And by 'catch a break' I mean 'not get totally screwed over by a quick whistle or some other nonsense in every freaking game.'
     
  17. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Your 2nd paragraph is an assumption... All of it
     
  18. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    The decision was between: keeping the catch for 3rd and 4 on Buffalo 27, or accepting the penalty for 1st and 10 on Buff 33. This is a no brainer, you go with 1st and 10. We scored a TD on this drive.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It looked like a complete pass. The NFL gamebook called it a complete pass. Every camera angle looked like a complete pass. The official that came to mark off where the yardage was acted as if it were a complete pass though he didn't make that two handed clutching gesture because they ruled immediately the holding penalty.

    If the officials ruled it incomplete they could have challenged it certainly. If it were ruled down a yard shy of the sticks that also could have been challenged because the video evidence showed clearly that Gibson caught it at the sticks.

    I think in all reality there was a misunderstanding where they were explaining to Philbin why the play did not continue and they said there was an accidental whistle. He may have understood this to mean that there was an accidental whistle BEFORE the catch, making the possibility of a 15 yard completed pass unavailable to him. But in reality you can see that the official that threw the flag didn't reach up and put his whistle in his mouth until Gibson came down with it. You can't blow a whistle that isn't in your mouth. The other official on that sideline, same thing.
     
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  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It wasn't going to be 3rd & 4.

    Watch the video. Don't analyze by looking at numbers on a PDF file that were recorded incorrectly.
     
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  21. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    So the argument is, Philbin should have thrown in a flag to challenge the spot and he would've clearly won because Gibson had the first down at <23 yard line?
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No.

    The player caught the ball at the 23 yard line. The official that is going to mark the ball is going up to the 23 yard line to mark it. They MAY have ruled it short by half a yard, at most. We don't get to find that out because they go on to declare the illegal contact penalty before the officials mark the ball.

    At worst it's third down and half a yard. And yes that also could have been challenged since I think the video showed Gibson was beyond the sticks when he caught the football.
     
  23. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I don't know that it's a first down... he goes to ground to make the catch... slides forwards (well, backwards) to the 25 and then starts to get up... Then the whistle... you can't challenge a whistle that's inadvertent, once it's blown, everything that happens after that is meaningless. So are you going to challenge that he had forward progress at the 23 for the first down... but he's going to ground to make the catch.. not sure they give him the 23 on replay.

    The obvious mistake here is the refs for blowing his stupid whistle as if something bad is happening... :lol:
     
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  24. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Yes, I looked at it, you are right on both counts. It looked liked the line judge was going to mark him just short. (obviously he was ruled short.) And it looked like Gibson had the first down, but it's not clear, the catch is near the marker.

    I think, the last thing you want to do there is 3rd and short.
    First thing you want to do is challenge, to see where you're at. Second accept the penalty and get the first down.

    So, I agree in this, Philbin could have thrown a flag. I don't agree with taking the 3rd and short over 1st and 10.

    Bottom line, we scored on this drive, so 1st and 10 worked.
     
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  25. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    In the end, shouldn't we be more upset at the inadvertent whistle that cost us a touchdown rather than Philbin making a mistake?
     
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  26. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Forward progression applies here.
     
  27. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    And to challenge the spot, Philbin would have to decline the penalty, and then live with the ruling, right? And then possibly end up in 3rd and short rather then 1st and 10. That's a tough choice to make. I would not do it.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He was 5 of 6 from 50+ last year. He was 2 for 2 the year before. Unlikely you say?
     
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  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Oh, that is an easy question...it is always better to blame Philbin for everything possible. :shifty:

    If this was such a controversial play, I wonder why none of the media dudes questioned him about it, when he was talking questions from them on Monday.
     
  30. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I call Bull**** that the catch was good enough for a first down. If that were the case the refs wouldn't have even asked him if he wanted to accept. WTF kind of sense does that make?
     
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  31. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Regardless if the refs marked it short of the first, it's clear as day on video that he's past the sticks. The correct play is to then challenge the ball spot, not screw yourself out of significant yardage.
     
  32. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    What do you think happened then? It's not like I'm pulling this out of thin air. The video is there for all to see.
     
  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I don't think its correct to risk losing a timeout and challenge to gain 4 or 5 yards, especially when it comes to spotting the ball. The refs don't like changing spots.
     
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  34. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    10-11 yards. In other words, enough yardage to put you safely in field goal range instead of right on the edge to the point that sack would take you out of it. The evidence is clear as day. There's no shot that it doesn't get overturned.

    As for the refs not liking to change spots, there's literally no evidence to suggest that, and with the new replay rules, the refs in New York get to make that call. Not the ref that spotted it.
     
  35. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Anyway, I'm sure he was majorly distracted in trying to get an explanation of why the whistle was blown, I know that's what I was concentrating on at the time. He doesn't have the same luxury of time that we have sitting on our couches with our PVRs. So the refs ****ed us over several times on that play. They blew the whistle for no reason, costing us a TD. And if what your saying is correct it was a horrible spot of the ball. And the inadvertent whistle was a wrench in the system that cost us the time to be able to think about the spot of the ball and if was worth challenging.
     
  36. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Couldn't JP have declined and asked for a measurement? If short, Miami would then have the option to accept? I'm almost positive the NFL made that a rule...
     
  37. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    According to the play by play it was a 2nd and 15 and the pass was documented as an 11 yard gain. Its unreal that the refs blew the whistle for no reason and screwed us by 5 yards on the spot ON THE SAME PLAY!! Inadvertent whistles are rare. And missing the spot by yards, let alone 4 or 5 yards is rare too.
     
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  38. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm pretty sure the game book is just a clerical error. CK made a good point about that in another thread:

    I feel like that makes sense and is easier to believe than the ref misspotting the ball by literally 25 feet.
     
  39. mroz

    mroz Rosen is a franchise QB Club Member

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    ...
    deleted my in correct comment
     
  40. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    If it were a 16 yard gain they would not have bothered to ask if he wanted to accept the penalty. They do have the liberty to assume when the decision is clear. You don't see refs asking if the coach wants to accept a penalty when the result of the play was a TD for instance. Nothing about any of this makes any sense.
     

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