Do you really want to play this game? Matt Leinart, Tye Hill, Jason Allen, John McCargo, JaMarcus Russell, Levi Brown, Ted Ginn Jr. etc. etc. And a whole bunch of other players that were chosen in the first round that barely have an impact anymore, or never had a "first-round" impact to begin with. Why even have a Pro Bowl then? They should just use the first 40 or so guys picked in the draft on your logic.
By all means, feel free to provide the evidence that the average first round pick performs at a level like Pouncey has.
With the exception of Levi Brown, those aren't linemen. And Brown was traded to get a fresh start. Jury out on him. Good try...actually excellent try. If you just reel your responses in to relevant items, you'll have very good posts.
Wait, jury's out on Levi Brown who was selected 5th overall in 2007 and has played for 5-6 years in the NFL? Is the challenge to name any player on this team that has lived up to their draft status or contract, or only those specifically with the offensive line? One you put forth in the previous page, but the other is the one you're using for your argument now.
And Mike Pouncey has exceeded expectations. To be selected 15th overall (as in, after 14 other players) and then to become damn near the best, or the best player at his position in 2-3 years is exceeding expectations.
Now how 'bout listing the last 10 years of 1st round offensive linemen to NOT perform like a top 5 player at the position he was drafted for? Here, I'll do it for you. Gabe Carimi Derek Sherrod Danny Watkins Bryan Bulaga Jason Smith [plus a $61 million rookie contract] Andre Smith [$42 million rookie contract; moved to right tackle] Michael Oher [moved to right tackle] Chris Williams Gosder Cherilus Sam Baker Jeff Otah Branden Albert Levi Brown [$62 million rookie contract] Alex Barron Chris Spencer Robert Gallery Vernon Carey George Foster Kwame Harris James Carpenter [moved to Guard] If you draft a center in the first round your expectations should be that he plays at an Eric Wood type level, someone who is good enough and reliable enough to lock down the position for years to come and smart enough to make the protection calls, etc. If you're LUCKY as heck, he becomes one of the NFL's best lineman like Pouncey. It's mathematically impossible for every 1st round lineman to be a top 3 player at his position like you purport. Pouncey is on his way to becoming a HOF'er, so if you think that's not exceeding expectations then maybe you should look for another way to pass your time.
I'll leave L Brown's status up to the team who traded for him. The challenge was to name a player that is performing above his draft status. That was my challenge to you. You changed the rules and said, "well, since 50% of the players bust, any player who makes the Pro Bowl is above expectation". You and I disagree on that. Pro Bowls are awarded every year to players who dont deserve it and deserving players don't go. IMO, if you get drafted in the first round, the expectation is that you are going to be a good player, understanding there will of course be busts in those picks. But no one EXPECTS their first round pick to be a bust. I hope this makes sense to you...if not, let me know and I'll try to explain it another way.
First of all...Seriously, I want to thank you for this post. This is the kind of post we should be dealing with. This is good information, and you went all the way to the last sentence before you "passively" insulted me! Anyway, let me address it. Maybe we just differ on expectations. If I recall correctly, Eric Wood was a second or third round pick, though I could be wrong. He's performing exactly where he should be. First round pick should be "better than him". Should be...not to say he will. If getting Pouncey as an overachiever makes you happy, I'll accept it, reserving my right to slightly disagree. He is a good player, worthy of his draft status. I am going to wait on getting him fitted for Canton, but I hope like hell you are right. Are there are any others on our team? And any FAs? I want to address the list, since you took the time to produce it...(impressive work, no sarcasm this time). I think some of the guys on the list shouldnt be. I think if they changed position but still produce, I'll take that. Not their fault they were drafted to the wrong position. And to turn the tables on you...let me ask...Do you think any of those teams are disappointed in any of those players? Based on your knowledge of the draft, should they be? Should anyone be disappointed in any draft pick? I think the are if the players busted. They didn't EXPECT that.
Your expectations are off the mark. This is why it's been difficult to carry on a reasonable discussion with you, but I commend your last post which was vastly more civil and approachable than stuff of the past. Through the first 4 weeks, Grimes was PFF's 5th highest rated corner, broke up 30% of the passes thrown his way, and allowed a 62.2 QBR. Before Grimes's injury, PFF had him rated as the NFL's #3 corner. He was #1 in yards allowed per coverage snap, #3 in catch % [behind Revis & Ike Taylor], #4 in coverage snaps per reception, #6 in cover snaps per target, #10 opposing passer rating [62.9], allowed a minuscule 258 yards, and was one of the least targeted corners in the league. So it's inaccurate to think it's rough sledding for a defense to have him as the primary corner, especially in today's NFL where great receivers are gonna get theirs regardless. Unless it's a healthy Revis, Peterson, Sherman, or a young Nnamdi or Bailey, it's irrational to expect a #1 corner to be a shutdown guy. It's a successful day if you limit an opposing #1 receiver to a reasonable game, cinch down in the redzone, make a few plays on the ball, and come up big when the team needs it. That's what Grimes has been doing this year.
Eric Wood was a 1st rounder.... and when you cease to throw out crappy remarks toward the entire forum like you've done from day 1, I'll stop showing you the least amount of respect allowable within the confines of the TOS. This post of yours is a good start. As far as the rest of your post goes, Pouncey is the best center in the game. He could've been moved to guard or be fighting for a starting job like other 1st rounders before him, but he's not. He's elite and is easily out-performing the average play of a 1st rounder. If you draft a 1st rounder and he plays like a 1st rounder, that's exceeding the norm b/c the average 1st rounder doesn't perform like a 1st rounder. Grimes, Gibson, and Wake have exceeded expectations. A healthy Soliai is too IMO b/c of what his ability against the run means for the defense, namely helping to make opposing offenses one dimensional. Ellerbe & Wheeler are TBD b/c of injury and having to adjust to a new defense. Wallace obviously has work to do but his presence on the field has made life tougher for defenses to play us compared to 2012, and it's showing in the points column where we've seen a bump in production. Clabo is clearly a disappointment that I'm not sure anyone saw coming. Free agency by nature makes it more difficult to have guys outperforming their contracts. I would think you'd be satisfied to have them playing on par with their contract, essentially getting exactly what you paid for. I created the list using your standards, so you can't suggest that Poucey isn't exceeding his 1st round status but then be ok with the guys on the list who aren't performing nearly at Pouncey's level. They weren't drafted at the wrong position; they were drafted with specific expectations in mind, which failed to be met, hence being moved. That's not turning the tables on me; that's turning the tables on yourself, as you're the one arguing about how lofty the 1st round expectations should be. A few of those guys turned into decent players who perform well enough at their position to contribute to success, and IMO that should be reasonable expectations for a 1st rounder, while having the hopes of him developing into All Pro caliber.
I never said anything about Pro Bowls, that was Stringer, and even he said "Pro Bowl level", which is totally different.
Starks is well paid. He's a good player. Polite, Moore...nothing special. Pennington was a special case. Bess was decent. Wake is a phenom.
Starks was first signed for a bargain. He was a rotational player with the Titans before he was brought to Miami. Polite was a very good FB when here and Moore was signed for peanuts and was named the Dolphins MVP two years ago. Bess may have been decent, but he was on a UDFA contract. You asked about players the Dolphins signed that were playing at a level above what they were getting paid. Every one of those players fits that bill. Some (Wake/Starks) more than others.
