1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Was the offense too complicated?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, May 21, 2020.

  1. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,696
    1,641
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    BOSTON (CBS) — When the Miami Dolphins fired offensive coordinator Chad O’Shea just a couple of days after their playoff-disrupting win in Foxboro, it certainly seemed like a head scratcher. He had been hand-picked by head coach Brian Flores to accompany with him on the move to South Florida, and he helped guide the offense during a 5-4 stretch to end the season, after the year began with most pundits expecting Miami to be the worst team in NFL history.

    Things were looking up. And then he was fired. Now we know why. Apparently, his offense was too difficult for players to understand. That’s the consensus based on reporting in the Miami Herald by Barry Jackson, Adam H. Beasley, and Armando Salguero.

    “One player described the situation on offense last season as a ‘[expletive] show,’ noting O’Shea tried to teach an offense that was too complex for a young team and that teaching/instruction during film study was a ‘disaster,'” the report said.

    The report noted that O’Shea’s offense didn’t just take elements from New England’s offense; it took some of the most complicated aspects of the system that Tom Brady and Josh McDaniels have been operating for years.

    “The Patriots offense is considered complex, but a player said O’Shea made the situation worse by trying to install especially complicated, advanced elements of the Patriots offense that Tom Brady and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels used,” the report said. “Those plays and terminology might be second nature to Brady in years 17, 18 and 19 of his career there but would confuse young Dolphins who were learning the Dolphins offense for the first time.”

    Of course, as every NFL broadcaster has said every weekend for the past 15 years, Ryan Fitzpatrick went to Harvard. Presumably, he should have been able to grasp the playbook. But when it came to the rest of the offensive players, they apparently didn’t feel as though they got proper instruction.

    “O’Shea would go to Flores and say a player didn’t know the playbook, but some of the players felt O’Shea wasn’t doing a good job teaching it,” the report said.

    While the Dolphins likely didn’t know in late December that they’d be drafting Tua Tagovailoa in April, the switch to Chan Gailey and a simpler offense seemed to be a move made with the intention of simplifying the offense for everyone involved.

    Chad O’Shea, then the receivers coach of the Patriots, talks to Tom Brady at practice prior to Super Bowl XLIX in January 2015. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)

    Of course, up in New England where Brady and McDaniels were toiling last year, the Patriots’ offense didn’t exactly thrive. While injuries along the offensive line and a lack of talent at tight end didn’t help, the Patriots dipped significantly on offense, finishing 15th in the NFL in yards. Rookies N’Keal Harry and Jakobi Meyers struggled to make an impact, and Julian Edelman was the only Patriots player to have a standout season on offense.

    Up there, though, it was the quarterback who departed, while the offensive coordinator stayed. Perhaps McDaniels will take the tale of his former colleague as a cautionary tale when it comes to designing an effective offense for second-year QB Jarrett Stidham in 2020.
     
    resnor likes this.
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,717
    50,741
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Getting in front of a group of grown men and teach is a very specific skillset..looks like he didn’t possess that trait
     
    resnor likes this.
  3. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

    1,950
    1,783
    113
    May 5, 2016
    Yeah, this is a tough one for me since I never had to learn a playbook. What is the best way to go about it? Is it the material or the method?
     
  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    That sort of scares me. That is an absolutely terrible reason to fire someone.

    A complex offense can take time to learn, but I thought he did a great job with what he was given.

    Maybe get some players who have talent and brains rather than running a dull system that a defense will be able to tear apart.

    This is still the offseason move I disagree with most. Especially since we took about 50 steps back replacing him.

    Hopefully Gailey works out, but I have about 15% faith in that.
     
  5. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

    1,950
    1,783
    113
    May 5, 2016
    I have always had a problem with teachers who don't know ( or care to know) their audience. I think education is a partnership and it takes both the student and the instructor working together to accomplish their goals. I have had many who stand at the front of the room and just read their prepared lecture without any concern about us and if we are understanding the material or not. I know some others are fortunate, but I have rarely had a teacher who is what I would call aware and truely understands how to connect and get the most out of their students. Most just think their job is to just present the material and it is our job to absorb the material from their presentation. Thus the reason why I have always hated school. I am a trainer where I work, and from what I have found, most don't learn that way. Yes, there are some that are auditory learners, but a lot of people are kinesthetic learners and learn by doing. Over the years, I have come across some very smart people who are a lot smarter than I am. The problem is, a lot of them can't or won't dumb it down for people like me. We end up with an oil and water situation. O'Shea might be one of those guys. I don't hold it against him, but it could be a matter of fit. We have a young team, and we have guys who come from different backgrounds. Some may have come from systems that are complex, while others are very basic. Their learning curve is going to be different. IMO, the best teachers understand who they have in front of them and adjust to their audience as they go.
     
    resnor likes this.
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,656
    7,814
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Isn't the Patriots offense really dependent on receivers making the right choice at different parts of the route tree, and the QB being on the same page? It takes time to really understand that type of offense...you can't simply install it in one season.
     
    Pauly and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,499
    30,025
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I don't know if the offense was too complicated or not, but there were things that we saw from the offense at mid season that made me downright giddy. Things that I'd seen other teams do for years, but not the Fins. The home game vs the Jets was just a thing of beauty.

    I'm extremely anxious and scared of what's coming, and that they're going to throw away the things that I like.
     
    resnor likes this.
  8. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,696
    1,641
    113
    May 2, 2014
    SO Cal
    A report earlier this month indicated that the main reason why the Dolphins changed offensive coordinators after the 2019 season was because former coordinator Chad O’Shea’s offense was too complex for a young team.

    Quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick isn’t one of the team’s young players, but it appears he thinks the offense is moving in the right direction when it comes to simplicity. Fitzpatrick played for new offensive coordinator Chan Gailey with the Bills and the Jets and said on Thursday that the scheme is well suited to the team.

    “He’s a guy that allows players to play to their strengths,” Fitzpatrick said, via the Palm Beach Post. “He’s got an offense that is not very complicated to learn but very complicated for defenses, in the way it’s presented to them.”

    Fitzpatrick said he’s “always wanted to prove” Gailey right for giving him a chance to be a starter in Buffalo and doing so in Miami would delay Tua Tagovailoa‘s ascent to the starting lineup.
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    97,717
    50,741
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    With so many players with different levels of reading comprehension the best way is to have a good teacher that can conceptually make players understand the play concept, then the rest is simple memorization that comes from the players work ethic.
     
    resnor and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    6,689
    8,825
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Complex or not, the QB was getting killed the first half of the season and the play-calling really didn't matter. We saw that a few seasons ago with RT and the only answer was getting the ball out quick to Landry 30x a game so you could set up 1-2 chances to throw deep. It wasn't a good strategy BUT it was the only one we could execute...and that line was much better than what we had last season.

    At the same time though, it's hard not to blame a coordinator if he's making things overly complex for a young team. "Dumb it down" has been a motto in Miami for a very long time now because we've had no consistency- we're constantly installing new coaches and systems. That has to stop and hopefully we can start building some continuity to get out of an endless rebuild mode. Because honestly, we've been rebuilding for the past 15 years and you never get to the more advanced stuff with that mentality.
     
    Etrius24, resnor and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  11. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

    358
    225
    43
    Sep 11, 2016
    It's basically a case of the chicken or the egg. Do you set up a system for the players you have or focus on the players you bring in on whether they can run your system? It seems like we ended up doing neither last season.
     
  12. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,325
    3,682
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    It's not just complexity, it was the struggles to explain/teach that complexity properly to young players. Flores is a teacher and wants them on his staff, and O'Shea wasn't able to bring enough of that to the table. With a rookie QB, LT, RT, new guards, new center and RBs ... well gotta match the coach and talent, not try and hammer square pegs into round holes.
     
  13. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,229
    3,188
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I’ve taught ESL professionally. I’ve trained chefs professionally. I’ve been the designated trainer for the legal department of an insurance company.

    One of the big mistakes you can make as a coach/trainer/teacher is to go too fast for your audience. Just because something is simple for you because you have mastered it and It is second nature to you doesn’t mean that it is easy for newcomers to acquire that skill.
     
    Zippy, texanphinatic and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  14. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    454
    496
    63
    Mar 4, 2020


    Fitzmagic's best season in the NFL arguably was under Gailey.... 30 touchdowns. I think the spread is fine for the players and the skillsets we have here.

    We have improved the running backs. And we are deep at receiver. Because we upgraded at center and both guard positions... We are going to be able to reap benefits in the running game because the spread opens up running lanes with Gap and Zone blocking.

    It is easier to run multiple formations out of the spread Gailey's spread combines the short range accurate passes of the west coast offense and elements of taking shots downfield with the air raid. It is versatile and it allows us to change it up sliightly to highlight our strengths and exploit other's weaknesses. Because we have the right coach ... a coach that has players believing... It allows us to change things slightly week to week to overcome challenges. Like the pats have done for the last 15+ years with Bellicheat.

    Parker has shown he can be a Julio Jones or an AJ Green like Player ( Not saying he is as good as Julio Jones. ) Wilson has shown he can play all over the field and make people miss. Williams has shown he can get open even against a #1 corner So we have the personnel to run several variations of the spread when it comes to the passing attack.

    If the Offensive line is anything close to average this is going to be a solid offense and it is going to surprise the **** out of all the experts that will pick Miami to win 6 games this season... ( Or whatever bull**** they say )

    We all know the defence is going to be strong... One of the best in the league. The offense is going to be much, much better also.
     
    Sceeto, Phil Hutchings and rafael like this.
  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,757
    7,209
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    I’ve been meaning to comment on this one, just haven’t really had the time to put together my thoughts thoroughly enough to do so.

    For me, football is a game of chess. Sure, you can have the most accomplished players in the field and you can have the most effective playbook, but if the players don’t execute the plays flawlessly, each play is going to end in disaster.

    For players entering the NFL level, they’ve been playing this game for 10-14 years already, from Pop Warner, junior high & high school and then college level. Each year they’ve learned more and more about the game itself and have improved their own individual techniques culminating in their selection to the next level of the game, the NFL.

    Now using the chess comparison, you could play chess with someone teaching you year after year and you could be a remarkable chess player, but that doesn’t necessarily mean once your at the world competitive level that your going to beat Bobby Fischer. Your game has to elevate to such a level that you just may not be able to comprehend the tactics on the board required to reach such an achievement.

    It’s either that or your teacher, in this case O’Shea wasn’t able to build enough confidence in his players to accept what could very well have been counterproductive to what theses players have had imbedded in them for all their years of playing. Paraphrasing Yoda, “you must un-learn what you have learned”.

    Most have criticized the hiring of Gailey citing their opinion that his offense is obsolete but it’s quite possible that his offense may be what these young players are going to need...a professional offense that adds to their skill set and improves them at the next level, prepping them for that Bobby Fischer level of tactics which may indeed be coming in coming years. Remember, Gailey is up there in years and I don’t expect him to be with the team for a long time like we hope Flores will be.

    Just some thoughts. I could be right, I could be wrong, but these are some thoughts that have been on my mind
     
    Pauly, resnor, Finatik and 1 other person like this.
  16. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    6,928
    2,707
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Well whether we think it was or not doesn't much matter does it. Evidently Coach Flores thought so. Perhaps as was suggested earlier he wasn't really good at teaching it. I don't know but the notion that we are switching to a "simpler" offense kind of worries me. How simple is simple? Is it so simple that every team knows what formations and plays are run out of them without much work?

    Honestly the only thing that has concerned me is the mass exodus from the coaching staff after the end of the year. I thought the staff on the whole did a great job coaching these players up for Sunday. Are we going to have the same level of instruction that we had before?
     
  17. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

    1,950
    1,783
    113
    May 5, 2016
    Fitzpatrick said the offense is easier to learn, but it's hard for defenses to figure out what's going on. However, I am not the guy to tell you why.
     
    resnor likes this.
  18. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,757
    7,209
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Well I'm sure for a 17 year veteran who's journeyed throughout the league, he's seen so many offenses that this was just that...another offense.....been there, done that.
     
    resnor and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  19. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

    454
    496
    63
    Mar 4, 2020
    Well it is easy for Fitzmagic for a few reasons.

    17 years experience.
    Fitz is smart... He did not go to college at a party school He went to an IVY league school... The guy is intelligent.
    And he has been in this offense before and thrived in it with the Jets a few years back.

    All good omens for us as fans.

    Fitz knowing it already and having this experience means he can Mentor Rosen and Tua... He does not have to learn it.. .and can explain it and talk about it with the understudies
     

Share This Page