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we need a new defensive coordinator

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by the 23rd, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    would be sweet if Rex fell out of favor as a head coach & we could acquire him as our defensive coordinator. having said that, other upgrades will come available.

    we need to utilize the 3/4:


    ...............Wake ( Starks / Earl ) Vernon...............


    Dion Jordan - Koa Misi - Jelani Jenkins - Chris McCain


    draft or acquire through free-agency:
    the best Nose Tackle & Inside Linebacker available

    what do you think?
     
  2. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Every time there's a post about switching to a 3-4 defense, a puppy is murdered.

    Please help stop the murder of puppies. Please stop talking about the 3-4.

    "In the arrrrrmmmms of the Aaaannnngelllll..."
     
    Fin D, Pandarilla, speed and 3 others like this.
  3. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Mark D'Onofrio.

    That guy just seems to land jobs by default.
     
  4. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    obviously, you use both systems according to circumstace. having said that, we need to play according to talent & our strength would be better utiized in the 3/4. think about it.
     
  5. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We don't have the personnel to run the 3-4. At all. Please stop. This isn't Madden.
     
  6. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    obviously, I disagree with you.

    we have better talent at 3/4 than 4/3 but each has its place in a defensive game-
    plan.
    think about facing Wake, Starks, Vernon, Jordan, Koa Misi, Jelani Jenkins & Chris McCain at the same time on the other side of the ball?

    reguardless, a traditional big & nasty nose tackle coupled with a stud I/L would be the icing on the cake. not much to fix...

    the biggest hurdle will be a defensive coordinator.
     
  7. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Go get 'em, Tiger. :up:
     
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  8. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the Goose said it best in the pregame yesterday, Coyle simply needs to stop scheming so much, particularly with his fronts. Simplify and let the players play.
     
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  9. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we have 3-4 personnel at DE and LB but without Soliai we're hurting at NT which is essential if you want to run a 3-4. Clearly the staff prefers 4-3 so Ive just accepted it.
     
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  10. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    got a lot of big nasty nose tackles, just waiting to be drafted.... and who knows what free-agency will bring? Starks & Earl can hold the job without problem on rotation while we find another Soliai.
     
  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    :confused: We totally have the personnel to run a 1-gap 3-4 that can double as a pressuring 5-2 similar to what Houston ran so well. We're dripping in personnel to run it.

    Odrick and Starks are 5-techs.
    Mitchell was a NT in that scheme.
    As a left-side-only guy, Wake is probably better off as a 3-4 LOLB (or 4-3 Under SAM/WDE) than 4-3 DE since it would allow him the best of both worlds- the ability to play Strongside OLB against strongside formations in base D and weakside edge rusher against weakside formations rather than having him constantly on the line against physically-demanding strongside formations which leaves the defense vulnerable to the run causes Wake unnecessary exertion. Instead of Wake facing a big RT or even a double team against a strong side run in base D, Odrick or Starks would be more suitably tasked with that role as a 5/6 tech DE.

    Dion Jordan is markedly better-suited as a hybrid OLB than 4-3 DE.
    Jelani Jenkins would probably be an even greater playmaker as a 3-4 WILL with more opportunity to roam behind 3 big bodies up front instead of 2.
    Misi is better suited as a 3-4 MIKE where he has the size and physicality to get up in there and stuff run lanes as the thumper [take on fullbacks and pulling guards], make better use of his previously learned pass rush skills, and have less responsibility placed on him in the passing game than as a 4-3 MIKE where we should have better athleticism, sideline-to-sideline ability, and coverage ability than what Misi provides.

    Not much tweaking need be done to the secondary other than replacing guys who already need replacing- Finnegan & Delmas. Byron Maxwell is a FA this year. He'd be a great solution at one corner position. It'd take less effort and resources to make this unit a great 3-4 or 4-3 Under than it would to make it a great, traditional 4-3.
     
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  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's no way Rex Ryan is going to be Joe Philbin's defensive coordinator for a variety of reasons.

    If Kevin Coyle gets fired, I'd tend to think they'd look towards guys like Mike Nolan or Steve Spagnuolo. I'd tend to expect Mark Duffner, but he's apparently Coyle's guy.
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They've been running a fair amount of 3-4 packages this year, so I'm not sure it's that wacky.

    You're also looking at a revamp of the interior line regardless. That's the biggest barrier right now to the Dolphins(and largely, I think)- Finding defensive ends.
     
  14. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Philbin had to be ordered to fire Sherman and the offensive line coach after last season. If Ross had not stepped in and made Philbin fire them, they would still have been on the coaching staff this year.

    I don't see Ross forcing Philbin to fire Coyle, so I fully expect the defense to remain the 4-3 defense it has been the past three years.

    Even if Philbin had the backbone to fire Coyle, I don't think any top tier DC would want to come to Miami and work for a lame duck coach in the final year of his contract. There will be plenty of better opportunities for the better DC's than coming to Miami.
     
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  15. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    I personally don't want ryan anywhere near this team.
    We had enough trouble with out that beg mouth slob here.:no:
     
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  16. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    we have the 8th ranked defense
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't care where we rank...our defense has not been good. And it's not simply due to injuries. We were not good prior to the injuries. Been the same story for two seasons now.
     
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  18. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    As much as I would love to see Rex step in as Def Coordinator...I just don't see Philbin getting rid of Coyle and I cant imagine Philbin and Ryan's personality are even close to a match
     
  19. speed

    speed Banned

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    I don't know if it's the scheme, or if the players just aren't that good.

    I mean when Trusnik and Wheeler are starting at LB, you aren't a good defense.
     
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  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If we switched to a 3-4 front, Wake and Vernon would be OLBs. Having them as the down linemen in a 3 man front would allow teams to run like crazy on us, no matter who was playing NT.
    With our current personnel a 3-4 would look something like:

    DL: Starks - Mitchell - Odrick

    LB: Wake - Misi - Jenkins - Vernon.

    Or you could have Vernon rotate with Wake, and have someone like Jordan or McCain as the other OLB.
     
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  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He was a great college LB. If he coached as well as he played, he'd be a fine DC.
     
  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Why is he anymore Coyle's guy than Philbin's guy? Joe wanted to hire him in 2012 when he first got the job, but Duffner was under contract to Jax and they would not let him make a lateral move. They were also both on the Packers staff together.
     
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  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If the contract status of Philbin is a deterrent, Ross can just give him a 1 yr extension. Ross may well extend him regardless of what happens with Coyle. Just because he is a lame duck today does not mean he'll be one in 2-3 weeks from now.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    We are 18th in PPG allowed. That's the bottom line. We have steadily gotten worse in PPG allowed ever since Coyle took over.
     
  25. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Our defense is full of toys to play with. I'm not buying the argument that we wouldn't attract a top defensive mind like Rex.

    We just need some fat guys to eat up blocks at D tackle in a 4-3. Enough of these athletic dudes. They get snowplowed in bad conditions and simply cannot anchor themselves. They also wear down easier.
     
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  26. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    While the defense has had some good showings (it really has), it's been the consistency in which it played which is a little concerning.

    Earlier in the year, the defense was the backbone of this team, and they played with fire. As the season progressed, they lost it. It could simply be that they lost it because the offense was not pulling its weight with some inopportune three and outs, etc. The offense did not complement the defense, and vice versa. When the defense pulled its weight, the offense flopped. When the offense put the team in position to win, the defense floundered.

    As a fan, I can accept one heartbreaker against Aaron Rodgers. But to do it again against Detroit, and in then in Denver? Well, something is amiss. What is it? While offenses will exploit defenses, there seems to be something missing, and it may not necessarily be something as simple as Xs and Os. It may be more of a collective belief in one another. Just because they had a saying on a tee shirt, did they really believe it? At times, it seemed as though players were waiting for someone else to make a play rather than manning up and going out and getting it. THAT was frustrating to watch.

    Yes, the process has been slow in many areas, but there was some real improvement in others. And yes, there is something to say in being ranked high in some statistical categories. But the let-downs were what defined this defense this year. Rankings or not, the defense did not make the plays when the games were on the line. Many teams can win with so-so defenses, but Miami was not built that way this year. Maybe next year, but certainly not this year.

    Either Tannehill comes out next year and passes for 4000+/30+ and Miami scores 30+/game, or the defense needs to establish a real identity, because they didn't have one this year. Who, mind you, will step in and make it happen?

    Maybe San Fran trades Patrick Willis because they might have a cap situation out there and we finally make good on drafting flipping Ted Ginn's family. I hated that family, btw! I kid, but I've been a good kid this year and Santa is a nice dude.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    This, definitely. I echoed this sentiment in another thread. Our D-line reminds me of something you'd see from a non-big D1 program who can't compete for the big, physical, 4 & 5 star DTs and DEs so they gotta go smaller and athletic instead, and it works against their lesser talented conference, but when they meet the big boys once or twice a year or in a bowl game, they get run over. The D definitely needs to get stouter and more physical up front.

    If Hickey/Coyle/Philbin want to stay with a lean Odrick and Mitchell in the middle then they need to prioritize a larger RDE who can reduce down in nickel while Vernon becomes a sub package RDE who rotates with Wake in base D to keep Cam fresh. Jason Pierre Paul would be perfect if NY doesn't tag or re-sign him. He should be a priority ahead of Odrick. In obvious passing situations we'd have Wake - Jordan - JPP - Vernon, which could wreak some havoc.
     
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  28. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Since Coyle has taken over, this defense breaks when it matters the most more often than it doesn't. At the same time, we're not that talented on defense. We've got one strong player at every level (except DB, we have two) (Wake, Jenkins, and Grimes/Jones) and a bunch of other guys who range from "good" to "WTF, get him off the field!"

    At this point, I'm happy to let Philbin sink or swim with this decision.
     
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  29. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    The same 8th ranked D that just let the 20th ranked O score 35 on them ??
    Pfft....
     
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  30. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    We just need a nose tackle I think. That would go a long way, regardless of scheme.
     
  31. speed

    speed Banned

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    Except we don't run a 3/4 defense
     
  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can call a 1-technique in a 4-3 a Nose Tackle. It can be pretty much the same position as in a 3-4.
     
  33. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Shhhhhh... 'Coyle is an idiot' sounds good to them... let the butthurt flow through you...
     
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  34. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So, you say a 1-gap 4-3 DT is... 'pretty much the same'... as a 2-gap 3-4 NT?

    You sure about that?
     
  35. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    coyle sucks, but philbin is to loyal to fire someone. ross had to threaten to fire philbin just for him to get rid of sherman.

    all we can hope is ross already to talked to joe and told him coyle goes or you all go.
     
  36. Oghma

    Oghma Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did anyone actually say that? I'm guessing the general point is that a guy lined up as a 1-tech can be called a NT. And the responsibilities of that guy would be similar assuming 1-gap 34 and 43, although the run fits around him are going to be different.
     
  37. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I enjoy your posts and I do not think Coyle is an idiot but....This defense is awful. You can come up with any stat that can say whatever you want it to say. Saying that this defense is ranked 8th(not you) is a horrible slant. Nobodies eyes are lying to them when they watch them play. I would still like Coyle gone, his schemes are not my cup of tea. It does not make him an idiot anymore than we are a top 8 defense this year. When you account how they have crumbled in huge spots this year...this defense is not even top 20
     
  38. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that makes you sleep at night....GOD BLESS. You would be hard pressed to find anybody that thinks that this is a very good defense(8th??). Over the last 5 games, not only have they been bad, they have been ATROCIOUS!!!
     
  39. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, a 1-technique is pretty much a 1-technique and both can be called Nose Tackles regardless of defense. You can't really assume a 3-4 down linemen to be playing a 2-gap technique like years ago.
     
  40. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I think that any coach thinking about coming to Miami next year would have to be smart enough to realize that even if Philbin gets an extension, it doesn't mean anything with Ross as the owner.

    Ross tried to replace Sparano with Harbaugh in 2011 and when he didn't get Harbaugh to accept the job, all Ross did was fly back to Miami and give Sparano a two year extension on his contract. Sparano ended up getting all the money but he didn't make it through the following season as the Head coach of the Dolphins.

    I don't believe Philbin is going to replace any of the coaches on his staff. Some may decide to leave if they get a better offer from another team, but I just don't see Philbin firing any of his coaches.

    I think there is a better chance Lazor leaves because he gets a head coaching job than Coyle leaves because Philbin finally comes to the conclusion that Coyle has done a lousy job as the DC of the Dolphins.
     

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