Yes, the ONLY scenario where a team is interested is if the Dolphins did something ****ty like that. The Dolphins ate three only team who is interested in him, because we're already massively on the hook for him. Also I do find it funny (ironic funny) that after hearing for months about how Tua showed us! Tua stayed healthy for an entire season, something you guys said would never happen. Literally a game and half into the season he gets concussed with another seizure look to it. Perhaps last season was the anomaly? They'll never admit to that.
I love Tua and really hoped he would succeed but at this point I'm never going to be comfortable watching him play again. If I was McDaniel I'd refuse to play him. All the doctors who cleared him to continue in 2022 were wrong. I was wrong for believing them. The truth hurts sometimes and the truth is he's finished.
ChatGPT to the rescue: "Key Steps in the Medical Clearance Process: Team Physician's Evaluation: The initial medical clearance typically starts with the team physician, who is responsible for evaluating the player's health. The physician assesses injuries, conducts physical exams, and reviews medical tests (such as MRIs, X-rays, etc.). The physician must determine if the player can safely return to play without risking further injury, based on medical best practices and the player's specific injury. Independent Specialist Consultation: In cases involving certain injuries, especially concussions, the player must also be cleared by an independent specialist. For example, under the NFL's Concussion Protocol, any player diagnosed with a concussion cannot return to practice or play until cleared by both the team doctor and an independent neurological consultant (INC). This process ensures an unbiased perspective on the player’s readiness to return. Progressive Return-to-Play Protocols: For specific injuries like concussions, there are strict return-to-play protocols that require the player to gradually return to full activity. The player must progress through stages, such as light aerobic exercise, non-contact training, and full-contact practice, without a recurrence of symptoms before being fully cleared. Handling Differing Medical Opinions: If there is a disagreement between medical professionals regarding a player's fitness to return, the NFL has procedures to manage it: Team vs. Independent Doctors: If a team physician clears a player but the independent consultant does not, the player is not allowed to return until both physicians agree. This helps prevent any conflict of interest, ensuring that the player’s health is prioritized over the team's desire to get them back on the field quickly. Player’s Right to a Second Opinion: Players are allowed to seek second opinions from outside medical experts. If a player's personal doctor and the team doctor have differing opinions, discussions usually take place between the two parties to reach a consensus. The NFL Player's Association (NFLPA) is also involved in ensuring the player’s health is protected, and may intervene if there are serious disputes about a player’s fitness to return. Independent Arbitration: If disagreements persist and are significant, independent arbitrators may be involved to resolve disputes between a team doctor and a player's outside physician. In certain injury scenarios, the league has mandated arbitration processes to ensure that player safety remains the top priority. In summary, the NFL requires both team doctors and independent specialists to agree before clearing a player, particularly for serious injuries like concussions. If opinions differ, further consultations and sometimes arbitration help ensure that the decision is made with the player's long-term health in mind." Basically, it sounds like the NFL might get involved here. I'm sure the Dolphins can pretty easily find an independent doctor and have their own doctor medically clear him.
Yes regardless of being a playoff team, division opponents create a win and loss in division. Every team would rather lose to out of division teams over division teams. Remember the 90s? The AFC East was incredibly competitive. Dolphins/Jets/Bills/Pats all with good teams. Meanwhile there were other divisions that sucked. But the divisional games were huge. Even when the team you're playing is bad, divisional games are almost always still battles. In division games are huge.
Well, you're the one who said medicine, science and physics are on your side with this tackle, not me. I can't help you but that was a normal everyday hit in the NFL, if you think it was violent that's your opinion and there is nothing physics, science or medicine can do...
I totally get it. Regardless of my feelings on his abilities, I never wanted him to fail. I'd be so psyched to not be having this conversation, but to be eating crow because Tua just got Super Bowl MVP. I just want the Dolphins to be good and be a repeating playoff team.
Yeah when I finally saw the hit, I couldn't believe that was what took Tua out. That's looking like the Zach Thomas stuff, can't pat him on his head. If you can't take those "hits" then you can't play football. It's really that simple.
I've played organized sports, but not at high school level because I never went to high school lol. Regardless, you don't have to play organized sports at a high level to measure how important it is to beat playoff teams. That's actually better done by a statistician looking at large amounts of data. You do realize sabermetrics was developed mostly by people without experience playing the game at a high level. Statistically, if you separate playoff vs. non-playoff teams — or to have a more continuous metric, look at win% against opponent strength — the most informative statistic is to look at win% against teams of similar strength, not win% against teams much weaker or much stronger than you are. That minimizes sample size necessary to reliably estimate your "true" strength. Hard to do in the NFL because you only have 17 games, but you can do that in baseball and basketball.
That's not the question. The question is whether StaleTacos' original argument that "when it matters most" could refer to "playing playoff teams" is supported by noting that division games matter more. It's not because there's no greater probability of a division game being with a team more likely to be a playoff team. No one is disputing that division games matter more. I'm saying that "when it matters most" typically refers to late season games where making the playoffs is at stake. That's certainly how it tends to be used on these boards.
This is where we are never going to agree. There is far more to sports than statistics. Statistics are a result, or figures describing a result. It is the things that go into getting those results that I don't think you really understand. Like the AFC South, for instance, used to be trash. Peyton best up on trash teams in division, racking up wins and stats, and going to the playoffs every year. But couldn't be very successful in the playoffs. Why? Because the opponents you face getting to your result (overall record) absolutely matter. If you don't face many good teams, then you're not necessarily as good as another team with the same record who faced a majority of playoff teams.
Tua plays small almost anytime "it matters most." That can simply reference anytime your abilities are stressed due to any number of factors. 1:30 and 70 yards to go in a game, and you need a touchdown is going to be a "when it matters most" situation whether you're playing the worst team in the league in the regular season, or in the Super Bowl. Granted, in the Super Bowl there will be even more intense pressure on the player to perform, so not all "when it matters most" situations are the same.
lol.. and last season you said he’d get hurt and he didn’t . Let’s not pretend that anyone here has a crystal ball.
Docs weren’t wrong. Tua deciding to take a dumb hit was wrong. The reason we don’t see this from more QB’s is because they slide. The Cinci hit wasn’t that, but this hit, a hit that would have concussed most anyone, was on him.
But it's not just in division as I previously noted. It's more about playoff teams. In terms of the division, you don't care as much if the Pats move from 4-13 to 5-12, they aren't competing with you at the top of the division or for a playoff spot. In terms of outside of the division, how you do against playoff teams impacts playoff rankings and bracketing when/if you get there.
Have to be careful here. It's true that statistics are a result, and that there are things that go into that result that are hard to quantify and thus can't easily be analyzed using statistics. But if they can be quantified, then yes statistical analysis applies. At that point it's the familiar refrain: with large enough sample size the statistical analysis becomes more reliable, while it's unreliable with small sample size. So the key point here is whether the potentially confounding variable can be measured or not. You're actually talking about something that can be measured: opponent strength. So yes in this case statistical analysis applies.
Tua has had many cases where he played really well when "it matters most" within a game. I mean that Ravens game is a great example, and there are many other cases. However, he hasn't played well in the case I was describing: when playoffs are on the line, or in the playoffs themselves. That's still small sample size though.
Still refusing to watch the video? Here’s the deal. You’re obviously extremely ignorant about anything you’re talking about. It’s your choice to stay ignorant. The info is a simple Google search away. It’s mind boggling to me that we have such ignorance today even though so much knowledge is in the palm of a person’s hand.
Yeah but you're up against mathematics here: the most informative statistic will always be when you measure yourself against those of similar strength, not those who are much stronger or weaker. This is the principle behind CAT = computer adaptive testing, where the difficulty of a problem you get on a standardized test (measured from a large population) is adjusted so that it's always close to where your estimated ability is. That's much more efficient than just having everyone respond to every question on the test. It's also the same principle behind adaptive algorithms for estimating detection thresholds (e.g., the point at which a person might detect some stimulus with 50% probability) in psychophysics. Mathematically speaking you should care primarily about how a team does against similar strength teams. Again, NFL doesn't play enough games for this to matter, but in MLB and NBA this will show up in the statistics.
He did a good job of it last year, did some training to learn to land/slide better when taking hits. Yesterday, he went away from his training and he made a bad business decision going head first against Hamlin. I agree with McDaniels that at the end of the day, the decision lies on the player. But it may not end up in Tua’s, McDaniels or Grier’s hand. When it comes to something as serious as this, itll be Goodell’s and Ross joint agreement. the NFL takes on 9 figure lawsuits almost annually due to concussion cases. It got ugly between the NFL and the Dolphins when tua suffered a concussion and got back in the game and got concussed again, if i recall that was against Buffalo day game two seasons ago. then the NFL implemented spotters to take players out the game. you best believe the NFL are going to send everyone our way to make sure all protocols are met and if Tua suffers another concussion this year, we are going to face the fire from everyone.. the league, goodell, former players fans, etc. all of you brace yourselves and hope that nothing more comes of this. You all know Tua is going to want to comeback and there will be some things we would deal with when he does get back.
"the most informative statistic will always be when you measure yourself against those of similar strength, not those who are much stronger or weaker." It sounds you are agreeing with me. If you are a playoff team, measuring yourself against other playoff teams is the better predictor. Those are the games I care about most (ie when it matters most). If I can use a baseball analogy, if you struggle against 96mph+, in the playoffs, you'll likely face more, not less of those types, therefore increasing the chance you struggle to hit in the playoffs.
Yes, if you actually are a playoff team that's true (e.g., in 2023). But it's not true in general. So it wouldn't be true for most Dolphins teams in the last few decades.
Well it's not necessarily perfect, but a playoff team is usually a good one, and a non-playoff team is a bad one. You can probably change the stat to comparing Tua stats of playing teams with winning records vs losing records, and get similar.
I saw the video and watched it on game day numerous times, doesn’t change my opinion and it’s really funny, that you of all people, call me ignorant, made my day! lol
No I said I didn't think he would do it. You bring that up though, as if it means something. Tua played to avoid any contact, and he did that pelt e to get to his big contract payday. That's how he did it. As soon as he got his contact, he takes a modicum of contact, he's almost immediately concussed. That means last session was an aberration. It was abnormal. It was an outlier. It was meaningless. But yeah, keep hanging your hat on that.
Right so I said something that allows for outliers, yet you take it as if I wrote "Tua cannot ever in any situation play big. He always plays small.". I didn't say that. Obviously he's made some big plays. You don't get to the NFL without being capable of those. But you create a strawman and argue something I didn't say. When it matters most, based on what I've seen, I expect Tua to fail.
You watched the doctor talking about Tua’s concussion on game day? I don’t believe you. See what I mean? You don’t even know what’s going on here, much less know anything about the topic of concussions. Lmao!!
I told my son last night that I hoped Tua wouldn't be a bum, and we would play well. Then I said, but I think we get blown out. And we did. And Tua was a bum up until exiting.
Those aren't outliers. There are too many cases where he performed well despite the OL not performing well, Hill or Waddle not being present, leading a 4th quarter comeback etc. It's nothing close to him playing small "almost anytime" it matters most. The expectation has actually been the opposite. First time we had a QB since Marino where you shouldn't just give up on winning the game even when behind late in the game. Jacksonville game was another example. Tua has many times played very well "when it matters most" during games. Also, if you note, I never assumed you said he never did that. Read my post again. I said "many times". It's you who is not reading carefully.
“Modicum”. LMAO! I can agree that he was stupid for taking that hit and it was his fault. He should have slid. This was a huge game, however, and he’s competitive. Still stupid, but not a “modicum of contact.” What a weird way of phrasing that.
I'm not sure why you have the impression that this was some violent hit from three likes of Butkis or Lewis. Basically Tua ran into Hamlin.
Reading resnor debate cbrad about math and statistics is very entertaining. It’s like watching my dog figure out who is in the mirror staring at him.
It’s not an impression. The doc explains it well. Just because you can’t understand what he’s saying or how physics works doesn’t mean the hit wasn’t violent and would have caused most anyone to be concussed or injured.
I did read that. I'm not sure why you're referencing things that I said could/did occur, as if I were unaware of them, and that they would change my position. Not all when it matters most situations are the same. I even gave you an example. BTW, the Ravens game is a MASSIVE outlier, and frankly, Tua was dog **** on that game. The dolphins got extremely lucky in the 4th. It wasn't some amazing heroic comeback by Tua like you make it out to be.
Yep that's it. A doctor can make anything sound violent. Again, if THAT is a violent hit for Tua, then he has no business stepping foot on the field.
I referenced it because you acted like I misrepresented your argument, which I did not. It's such a massive outlier that it's nearly impossible to NOT ascribe a large portion of the credit to the QB.
Wow. The doctor did a very good job at dumbing down why this was a violent hit and why it’s something that would cause a concussion. I guess it still wasn’t dumbed down enough for you to understand.
Resnor: “The sky is purple!” Most people: “No, the sky is blue.” Reanor: “Stop misrepresenting me! I never said it wasn’t blue.”
