Despite what some believe (or simply ignore), dynamics ARE extremely important to an offense, unless you feel that each player's potential to be maximized is insignificant. Sorry, but I don't. Teams win SBs by allowing most of their players (or at least ALL of their top guys) to play to their strengths, which in turn allows the team to play at a maximum level.

That's what PROPER DYNAMICS are: building your offense and defense in such a way that allows virtually every guy on your team to play to his strengths, which allows every guy to achieve his greatest potential, in turn maximizing your entire team's performance. This means that your players should fully compliment each other, not hinder their potential. The ability to attack every inch of the field also contributes to great dynamics.

For instance, is Tom Brady REALLY Tom Brady if he has a spaghetti strainer for an Oline that provides him zero protection or if he has 3 Ted Ginns for his WRs? You cant just say "NE should be outstanding on offense just b/c they have Brady" because that doesn't account for the dynamics and overall ability of the offense. You can't say "Our offensive should be explosive this year b/c we have DeSean Jackson & Mike Wallace" if you have a noodle arm for a QB who can't push the ball down field. This is a team sport, so ilite players can be non-factors if the dynamics are poor.

Our offense is no different. W/o the proper dynamics, it doesn't matter how talented Marshall & Bess are if they're NOT allowed to play to their strengths..... and right now, we do NOT have good dynamics. They're pretty poor actually b/c none of our guys truly compliment each other. Our poor dynamics allow defenses to key in on defending a smaller area of the field, hence reducing our ability to make plays.

Hartline is a good player in his own right, but he is NOT conducive to great offensive dynamics in Miami. It's no secret that Brandon and Bess are NOT guys who create their own space (which isn't the same thing as creating separation). They don't have the wheels to burn by defenders at will like a DeSean Jackson. DeSean's elite speed provides him his own space to make plays. B/c Brandon and Bess lack speed, they need help from the rest of the offense to create space for them so that they CAN use their ability to make plays after the catch. They need proper dynamics. After all, that's what we brought Marshall here for--- to make plays, not to be an expensive possession WR b/c our current offense allows defenses to take his strengths away from him.

If you want proper dynamics, then give the best 2 skill guys on our offense some damn room to maximize their outstanding ability.

Many of us realize that we need more big plays downfield, but too many people falsely (but understandably) believe that Hartline can be that guy. All this is doing is trying to force a square peg. Hartline's receiving strengths are in his technique and his ability to gain quick separation over the 8-20 yard range. Just b/c he can beat his man downfield from time to time does NOT mean this is his strength....... and if we try to force him into the "vertical" type role out of need, then all we're doing is taking him AWAY from his strength and forcing him into a role that's not. Then now all of a sudden we have 3 guys unable to play to their strengths, and we're not going to ANY Super Bowl if that's the case.

We NEED a vertical threat to open up the offense and in turn help provide Marshall & Bess more space to operate. This "threat" needs to come from a guy whose STRENGTH is in getting vertical rather than occasionally getting open deep. This "player" needs to be consistent, reliable, and trustworthy down field. Honestly, what's the point of designating a guy your "vertical threat" if that's not even his strong suit? <referring to Hartline>

Mike Wallace's strength is getting deep...... and since it's a "strength", defenses have to respect it or he'll beat the snot out of you. A strength of Andre Johnson, Vincent Jackson, Braylon Edwards, & Larry Fitz's game is making plays down field b/c they can flat out dominate a DB when it comes to attacking the ball and making a play on it. As such, defenses have to respect them deep. Defenses do NOT respect Hartline vertically b/c that's not one of his strengths, so even though he can make the occasional play downfield, he does NOT change how defenses play us, which in turn does NOT favorably impact the dynamics of our offense.

I like Hartline a lot, but Hartline as a vertical threat is not the same thing as Brian the intermediate threat (just as Albert Pujols batting leadoff is NOT the same thing as Pujols batting 3rd or 4th). Brian needs a role in this offense that allows him to play to his strengths, provided that doing so doesn't limit anyone else from playing to theirs. We can allow him to play to his strengths as a #2 WR, however that prevents Bess & Marshall from playing to theirs.... and sacrificing your best 2 players' potential so that you can get the most from Hartline is counterproductive.

Basically what I'm saying is that we need a #2 in here who greatly improves the dynamics of our offense. Either that, or we need to forget about opening up the offense, go back to becoming a power running team, look for a QB with pinpoint accuracy who excels in timing routes, mistake free ball & game management, and hire Henning back.

 

No offense, but getting deep from time to time is not the same thing as being a vertical threat. Those plays you refer to ONLY impact the score and Hartline's & the QB's play. We're speaking of overall offensive dynamics here, and his occasional deep plays do not improve our dynamics.

You can say anything you want about Henne missing Hart deep, but that doesn't change the fact that Hartline's strength is NOT as a vertical WR. On a side note: I understand that Henne missed some passes down field, but you're speaking of it as if a QB is expected to hit on EVERY one of his throws, which is nonsensical. I watched Matt Ryan and Drew Brees miss on more throws than that in ONE game verse each other. Again, it's not about the individual results of the play. It's about what the play can provide for the rest of the guys on the offense. Brian getting open deep is nice, but that doesn't really help Brandon or Bess, does it?

 

Sure, let's just pull a new QB out of thin air since there are so many valid, proven options at this position. So what you're saying is we should let everything stay flat until we get a QB?.... and I guess you're saying that it's guaranteed we'll get a stud QB in here. Would you like to clue me in on the date that this savior is arriving?....... b/c I've been waiting on him for years now. lol

 

I seem to recall a different bit of history regarding Henne and a speedy receiver named Ginn. Just sayin. Things chance when the dynamics change. Things change when you're throwing downfield to a guy whose strength is getting open downfield.

 

I didn't say it would. You're missing the point. The point is to improve the dynamics. The point is to give our current playmakers more space to make plays. Even if we don't have a great deep passing game, that doesn't mean that defenses don't have to respect a vertical threat running down field.

 

Stop twisting words. Padre mentioned not being able to hit speedy guys down field. I gave an example that disproves it.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with the thread topic, but congrats for diverting it into your own topic. lol.

 

You're right, the guy's speed doesn't matter. His ability to haul in the pass downfield does..... and Hartline does not have good downfield ability. I agree, Henne improving would definitely jump-start us achieving better dynamics, but that still wont make Hartline a downfield threat who scares defenses.

Again, great dynamics are about all 11 guys on offense, not just Hartline & Henne. You guys keep leaving out the bigger picture of how Hartline affects Marshall, Bess, the TE position, and our ground game.

 

He had 2 beautiful passes to Ginn downfield.

 

I completely agree. (This isn't about Sidney Rice.) I'm not saying we need some elite, expensive player as a #2. I'm merely saying that we need a #2 who has a strength for the vertical game so that our overall dynamics can improve. He doesn't have to be any better than Hartline; he only needs strengths that lay in a part of our game that's lacking.

I'm not saying that Hartline is a bad player at all. For instance, if we had Mike Wallace instead of Brandon Marshall, then Hartline's intermediate ability would be better for dynamics than bringing in another guy whose strength is getting open deep.



Side note: Regardless of our QB play, we still need a reliable vertical threat. We cant just say that we don't need one b/c we have Henne b/c all that does is assume that we'll forever have poor QB play.

 

I did too...... until they faced the Jets in the playoffs where a lack of a true vertical threat seemed to hurt them IMO. NE at least has guys who can create their own space b/c they have better than average speed, so I don't think the Pats lacking a deep threat hurts them as much as it does us.

 

I don't disagree with this..... but IMO there's been enough sample size to show that he doesn't play the ball very well once it's in air. B/c of his 4.5 vertical speed, he should be making up for it by being great at attacking the ball, high pointing it, aggressively altering his route on passes off course, making the acrobatic play (and showing the body control to do so), etc....... but I just don't see that from him. If he could do that well, then we'd be speaking of him as a future #1 type player b/c he already excels in the intermediate game.

 

It's be nice if we had a hard time thinking of the 2nd one b/c there were too many to recall. :lol:

 

I don't disagree with this at all..... but in an offseason where TE's in the draft are nothing special (and it's no guarantee that we can land Zach Miller or Owen Daniels), then we might be left with going after one of the many vertical threats available to improve dynamics. Plus we need depth at the position, so that would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

IMO there are too many variables in the equation to say that Henne's rating dropped b/c of Hartline's injury. Oline injuries, Fasano going down, Marshall getting hurt, having only 2 valid receivers on the field, the ground game further disappearing.

Henne was on fire in the Detroit game before the line was shifted around and our #7 TE entered the game.

 

He's 31 coming off his 3rd best season....... with 1115 yards and 6 TDs in an offense where he drew more coverage than Hartline. I'd have zero problem bringing him in as a quality stop gap.

 

Don't disagree with this in the least. I dont think there's one specific route to improve our dynamism. I dont care how it's improved so long as it is. IMO it might prove easier to accomplish via the #2 WR spot than QB, as we've been trying to get "that" QB for about a decade now. I like Kaepernick and would take him for the QB role you speak of, but that doesn't solve things for a few years, and I for one would like to see immediate improvements as well as long term ones.

 

Your opinion is logical. I don't see anything wrong with it provided it works. lol.
Someone could call you crazy for saying that Vince could be the answer, but if he came in here and took us to a SB, then you'd look like a genius. (ditto on Thiggy)

 

I agree with you on all this Oz. I really do. I'm not taking away from the lack of production at QB, the poor ground game, or the horrible play calling. I'm merely addressing another area of improvement that's unrelated. I don't feel that it's a prerequisite for every team to have a vertical threat, but I do feel that some offenses (based on their make-up) do need a vertical threat to help maximize everyone's production that would otherwise be somewhat limited. Unfortunately, I strongly feel we fit into this category.

It's not the vertical threat itself that I'm as concerned with per se; it's the spacing for the rest of the offense to operate in that I'm more concerned with; it's creating the opportunity for Marshall to be elite rather than just very good. IMO Bess & Fasano (b/c of their slower speed) as well as our ground game would benefit from more space........ and if it means sacrificing Hartline as our #2 to accomplish, then I have no problem making him our #4, especially when we currently have no depth past #3 and need another WR regardless. He could still catch for 500+ yards/season and contribute greatly so it's not like he'd be on the practice squad. lol.

 

This I completely agree with. I wouldn't sniff altering the #2 WR spot if it meant compromising our ability to fix the ground game. If we can do both, then I think it would improve us all the more.

Heck, I'd like to address 3 of the spots in the draft by trading down and grabbing RB, Mikel LeShoure 1st..... QB, Colin Kaepernick 2nd...... WR, Greg Little, Jernigan, or Titus Young 3rd..... and Oline or a COP back 4th. Then focus our FA money on a TE, Oline, #2 RB <guys who can step in and impact from day 1>..... and if there's any $ left (which there hopefully will be) then go after a vertical threat WR who doesn't necessarily have to break the bank.