Maybe, but New England is a winning team because they do not have players like Marshall on their team.
Lol, well there's the problem. You have the audacity to call me stupid because I say Marshall's production was average here and prove it, but you think the measure of a player's greatness is if he's on the NFL Network's Top 100? Paste must be delicious.
lol i know i said I was done but this time im serious. couldnt let this go....he'll prob tear it up with the bears but he's just average? lol way to cover your ***. 15ypc is good. I'm sure the bears will enjoy playing for the NFC north title and marshalls 12-1300 yards plus 8-10 tds while we pray for any two of our WRs to put up those numbers. What season of chambers are you talking about? are you high? chris chambers? really? lol
I've really looked at his speed very closely, and It is my main concern when it comes to his skillset, I think Brandon Marshall IS slow, and his yards after the catch may look beastly because he's fighin off some defenders but, he's never streaking up field with the ball, it's mostly comeback routes and digs, where he turns and scraps for a few extra yards, a few being the key word..Bottom line, I believe the player has real speed issues..Usually, when someone is not confident that they can outrun a defender,they try to get away horizontally, Marshall is the epitome of a horizontal escape artist, he does it all the time, looks like he's doing something, but he's not really going anywhere.. I've said this before, and I think it's the basis of this debate, I believe that if you gave me 13 or 14 different receivers in the Nfl, and you gave those players as many targets as you gave to Marshall, I believe you would see better production.
voted on by the players? sure has a lot more cred than any of the **** you say. 80 something balls and 1,200 yards plus a pro bowl appearance isnt average. what planet are you from? lol good talk
Goddamit. If you're gonna act like an indignant ***, then you better make sure you understand what you're arguing. I've been saying all along his production was average or he was average here. Learn to read, then learn to comprehend it. 15yrd average is not good it is bottom half of the league for receivers with 60+ catches. That isn't good, no matter how much you crap yourself.
Because it is dependent on the offense ran, the defensive coverages and so on. Not being a smartass either. That's why I asked what his Average YAC was. I know that I read an article at some point fairly early in the season last year and he was averaging just over 5 yards after the catch and thats outstanding.
I guess your outta here cause in every way I would drop Marshall's *** for Floyd, Welker and Blackmon. Your acting like this argument is based in us thinking he sucks, that's your issue, Iam arguing based on his proper place in the Nfl..Which is outside the top 10. You know what's ridiculous? Some people who wouldn't trade a player for another player because he's a rookie..
81 catches at 319 yrds total is 3.9 yard average. That's the lowest I've seen of 1000+ yrd receivers last year. I'm not being a smartass either but those reasons you gave could be the same for anything though. If I can't use these numbers to make my case that Marshall's production was average here because of the reasons you gave, then we can't use numbers to prove any receiver is good either. It sounds good, but Antonio Brown even had 16.1. Again, 15ypc is average last year.
Just to get this out there..are you all telling me that you wouldn't take these players over Marshall.? C Johnson A Johnson Fitz. Greg Jennings Steve Smith. Roddy White.. Hakeem NIcks Julio Jones Dez Bryant. AJ Green. Justin Blackmon. Mike Floyd Mike Wallace Wes Welker Is there 10 that you would..?, I know there is for me.
Anyone who takes Welker over Marshall doesn't understand football and how a scheme can enhance a players performance beyond their physical talent. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd take Devone Bess over Welker. The only reason it sounds crazy is that you've never seen Bess in a legitimate offense while Welker has played in a scheme that takes advantage of his traits. I'm not saying Welker sucks. I'm saying he is probably a 700-800 yard receiver on a normal team, and probably 600-750 yard receiver on an inept offense like ours has been.
Good for you! I'm betting he is still right up there in the top of the league in receptions, yards and Td's...
I expect that this season we will compete at a high level. I really didn't want the Dolphins to take Tannehill but it is what it is and I'm in it for the long haul with him and Philbin. Still glad Sparano is gone and the way we drafted this year it seems that Ireland has turned over a new leaf. I am fully prepared for Tannehill to step in and make mistakes. Instead of the Parcells 3 year plan I'm cool with a longer plan as long as the team keeps stocking up and taking the right talents to make the team very successful. Can we please have a thread where it isn't derailed by talk of a certain WR who isn't here anymore? GO PHINS
Facts? A Fact.... singular.... while completely ignoring many other variables. You completely keep repeating that one singular season of results as all encompassing. A singular season of stats on a poor team has defined Marshall's career and made his skill set worth less than a rookie TE. Why I would expect anything more though is where I am at fault in this discussion.
Those two variables pretty much go together. Skill set leads to production unless production is the result of a system which can also take precedence but that was HARDLY the case in our offense. I'll say it again. He did produce. Marshall doubled the production of any other reciever on the team in yards and TD's. He was the offense when it came to the passing game. Was he perfect? Was he infallible? No.... Did he annoyingly drop balls? Is he a head case? Yes Does not change the fact that he is a #1 WR in this league and can take games over if used correctly. He's been an All Pro voted by peers 3 friggin times. He DID produce in this offense. The offense sucked. The offenses limitations clearly did not cater to him having big years. He was keyed on in every single game by secondaries because we had no other weapons. The whole fixation of his stats while he was here is such a narrow view of the full story it is in fact absurd. Marshall needed to go and he was a distraction I agree. However the crew on here that wants to justify that even more by proposing that the WR crew is actually better without him and more likely to produce are in La La Land. You don't just replace a #1 WR easily. You certainly can't expect to replace him with a 3rd round TE rookie prospect which is the statement that started this ridiculous discussion.
The issue here isn't whether some would pick other WR's that are considered top WR's. The issue is whether you can "Easily" replace the loss of a #1 WR even if he's only a top 15 WR rather than top 10. This argument was never about rankings and where Marshall stands. This all started over a couple posters stating Marshall's skill set won't be missed. In fact our newly drafted rookie TE would easily replace the production of this #1 option WR according to them..... who ironically accused someone else of eating paste in this thread. Whether you think Marshall is a top #1 WR or not the simple concept of replacing an experienced #1 option "easily" is not realistic. Especially when that person accounted for a significant portion of the offense.
I am betting that the other teams will be overall better with the elite players who step up and the role players who play their roles well.
Alex, I respect ya, and I won't insult your intelligence, but anyone who thinks Bess is the better player over Welker, and that Welker is nothing but a product of a system, doesn't know how to evaluate players based on individual talent and skillsets.. You keep talking sh&$ about Welker and he just keeps leading the freaking Nfl in catches..if you don't think that takes a special skillset to do, I don't know what to tell ya.. It's funny,I've had to defend Wes Welker on this board for years, I believe I argued with you about how what we got wouldnt be close to what he would achieve...the man may go to the hall of fame one day, and people will not give him the respect because they can't see the intricacies of his talent...
He did produce, however his production didn't add to the team. The offensive limitations have been around since Marino retired. The fact is, the offense on a whole, with a scheme was able to do better without Marshall, than it was with Marshall.
You are talking to someone who didn't think Miami needed Marshall in the first place and watching Miami in the last 4 years, which is two pre-Marshall and two with Marshall, the offense didn't improve with Marshall. The total offense was a little worse with Marshall than it was without Marshall. Yes there are factors in the two seasons with Marshall, however there were factors in the two seasons without Marshall. I am looking at the last four years and the offense was at its best with the receivers Camarillo, Bess, and Ginn. With Fasano and Martin as the tight ends. It is completely realistic that Miami can have just as good season with Hartline, Bess, and Gates with Fasano and Egnew. Of course they also have Bush and Clay. The amount of amazing plays will probably go down without Marshall making some of his amazing plays, however headaches will also go down and quarterbacks can now throw it to the most open guy rather than over feeding Marshall. On paper, I agree with you. Looking at what happens on the field, I cannot.
He's 100 % correct. Why do you think no other team in the NFL wanted Marshall? Why do you think Marshall is a career loser?
And you'll have a cancer in the locker room who's a double homicide waiting to happen. Some folks never learn.
I don't see the defense being as effective in 2012 as they have been in the past two seasons because of the loss of Nolan as the DC. I think the offense will take time to become more productive and I don't see Moore being as effective in the WCO as he was in the offense run by the Dolphins last season. It would not surprise me in the least if Garrard doesn't end up as the veteran starter early in the season, with Tannehill getting some starts late in the season, once the Dolphins have no chance of making the playoffs. While the schedule does not appear difficult right now for 2012. I think many of the teams on the Dolphins schedule with losing records in 2011 will be significantly improved in 2012. So I see the Dolphins finishing the season 5-11 or 6-10 and in last place in the AFC East. The Patriots will win the division and the Bills and Jets will fight it out for second place in the division. I also think that the second place team in the AFC East will win a Wild Card playoff spot. The 2012 season will be a year for the Dolphins to start the rebuilding process again and I just don't see major improvement in the teams record until at least 2013, or possibly 2014.
I say his production while here was average. I've backed it up. Its you who has not only misunderstood what I'm saying but also can't back up a single claim or refute with facts anything I've said. For example, you keep acting like doubling all the other production from WR's on the team is relevant. It isn't. You think if those passes weren't thrown to Marshall then they never would have existed but they would have gone to another receiver. Maybe these other receivers don't get 1200 yrds, maybe they do, I bet they get more than 6 effing TDs though.
I'm betting that if Marshall has the right team around him, his team will be right there with the better teams!
Speaking of learning! Learn to read what I said! That I would take Marshall the player! I've already stated that I don't mind the trading of Marshall as long as they replace him with a Wr that is at least better than Hartline and Bess!
I see 9-7 with 3rd place finish. Patriots 14-2 Bills 9-7 Miami 9-7 Jets 8-8 simple addition by subtraction. by moving Sparano to the Jets, we gain, they lose.
I'd like to be homer but barring injuries I can't see more than 1 win in the division. I think Miami will be a much better team but the AFC East is looking brutal. I'll say 7-9.
