What Did Everyone Think Of Henne, LAST YEAR?

The difference depends on who's defending whom. And as for the meltdowns, everyone counts the Jets loss as his fault and the first Patriots loss. I don't know of anyone who can count the second Pats loss as his either. Remember, we had the Pats 14-13 or the other way around before ST decided to let them score.

 

Great post. The amazing thing is that people see this OL/running game debacle happening and then say "Henne folded" down the stretch. That's what's most frustrating for me. I don't mind Henne struggling, he was a developmental QB, as you said, he'll need time to develop, as you said. If he was a finished product, he'd have gone much higher, so a little patience is needed IMO.

The 3rd year is typically when you see a QB step his game up, though with the new system and the lockout we'll have to see. Job one has to be to change the dynamics of the offense, add some speed, versatility, play making ability and unpredictability. If we can do those things, and continue to improve on defense, (get some stickum for Sean Smith), we'll be in good shape.

Not ragging on Sean but I just watched the Ravens game and sweet Jeedus Flacco threw a change-up right between the 2-4, he could've jogged to the endzone and put us right back into the game. Flacco had another near pick, a duck into the end zone that butter-fingers Chris Clemons and Vontae both got their hands on. Meanwhile, Hartline falls down and Webb walks into a pick, Marshall tips a ball straight to Ed Reed, and there's another INT with 30 seconds left in a game we're trailing by 16. It was a game where both QBs played OK, but if you look at the stats alone, Henne sucked and Flacco was brilliant. Chad gets grilled for not pushing the ball down field, but if he had guys like McGahee and Rice who could take those short passes and I dunno, make some miss? Then I think a lot of the complaints would die down a bit. Ryan Williams and Greg Little, C'mon down.

 

Haven't you heard? Ginn, the resident whipping boy, was traded, so basically anything bad that happens is now Chad Henne's fault.

 

Those two interceptions that killed Dolphins drives didn't have anything to do with the first Pats loss?

 

They certainly didn't kill us and we were up 1 point I think. But seriously, for someone to put that loss on Henne, when 21 points came off of ST, it'd be crazy. Consider that the score would have been 14-13 still without the ST stuff. Any manner of thing could have happened from there. I'm not counting the pick 6 because who knows if it would have happened or even mattered in that scenario.

 

I may have cussed Henne out in the game day threads but that's in the heat of the moment. Henne also did some good things late in 4th quarters of games, and coming from behind as someone else mentioned earlier. So I may not be a huge supporter of his but I'm more than willing to root him on another year. Unless they find a sure fire upgrade.

But again, scoring defense is highly flawed to me. The Qb rating system stinks too..

 

Can I blame the Bears loss on Henne?

 

What I would like to know is what Henne has been doing this off season. Has he been working with his team mates and developing chemistry because it was missing last season. Unless Ireland has some magic up his sleeve and finds a way to sign Carson Palmer I do not see how Henne does not keep the starter job for at least the first half of the season.

Henne in my oppinion has a lot to prove. Stats don't mean squat to me, I watched him play and base my oppinions on what I saw from him. Henne lacks in so many different aspects in his game it is frankly too long to list them all. Can he turn it around and improve things...........I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. He is going to get his chance and that is the same oppinion that I had of him going into last season.

 

I herd today that players are being asked to be very careful with offseason workouts. They have no insurance and the owners may have a case against them if they get hurt. Depending on how the upcoming rulings go.

 

Passer rating is a damn good measure despite being a very weird stat. Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau like it, specifically defensive passer rating, or the passer rating their defense allowed the opposing QB to achieve.

And I wouldn’t say scoring defense is flawed, since the point of football is to score more points than the other team. But it’s better to look at scoring defense game by game, rather than as an average.

 

exactly.

Yards allowed don't distinguish a defense as being "great", especially when it ranks 14th in scoring, near the bottom in turnovers created, and dead last in missed TO opportunities. Calling our inconsistent defense great at this point is an insult to the Steelers, Packers, and Ravens.

We allowed 30+ pts 4 times during the season where as Pitt, GB, and Balt allowed 30+ pts only 2 times combined. We have a defense that played great <at times>, but that doesn't make it "great". That just means it has the potential to be great.

I don't get how it's acceptable for our young defense to be inconsistent, but it's not ok for our young QB to be inconsistent when he had ten times the problems around him.



Let's be honest here.............

Our defense ranked:
32nd in missed TO opportunities.
32nd in INTs for TDs (0). Patriots had 4.
32nd in yards off INTs (66, by far the worst in the NFL). Patriots had 419.
28th in INTs.
26th in 40+ yard receptions.
26th in longest pass allowed (86 yard TD).
26th in receiving yard avg (12.4 yards per catch).
24th in fumbles recovered.
20th in 20+ yard receptions.
19th in passing yards per attempt.
15th in QB rating allowed.
14th in passes deflected.
11th in 3rd down % allowed.
10th in sacks.
10th in penalty yards.


Our special teams ranked:
32nd in TDs scored (0).
32nd in TDs allowed (4).
32nd in KOs out of bounds (3).
31st in field goal % made.
31st in blocked punts allowed.
28th in KO return avg allowed.
23rd in PR yards avg allowed.
20th in fair caught punts.
15th in punt "net avg".
-------------------------
27th in 20+ yard KO returns.
22nd in 40+ yard KO returns.
22nd in KR avg.
24th in KR long (46 yards).
25th in PR fumbles.
24th in 20+ yard punt returns (2).
27th in fair catches.
19th in PR long (47 yards).
13th in punt return avg.
13th in 40+ yard punt returns (1).


Our run defense was our only solid part.
2nd in 20+ yard plays allowed.
1st in 40+ yarders.
3rd in rushing avg allowed.
7th in rushing yards per game.
7th in rushing TDs allowed.
3rd in 1st down % allowed.
2nd in longest run allowed.
28th in fumbles.

As far as the Oline goes, besides the 16 sacks over the last 5 games:
Ranked 14th in QB hits allowed <despite using max QB protect>.
Ranked 18th in QB hits & sacks combined despite max QB protect (with a higher % coming during 2nd half of the season when the wheels fell off the bus).
Ranked 30th in rushes of 10+ yards (35). Leader was 72.
Ranked 30th in rushing TDs (8).
Ranked 31 in rushing AVG (3.7).


When I look at all of this, the aspects that I see hurting our offense and QB's development are:

1. lack of defensive turnovers or short field opportunities leading to extra pressure on Henne to convert longer drives and score more pts.
32nd in missed TO opportunities.
32nd in INTs for TDs.
32nd in yards off INTs.
28th in INTs.
24th in fumbles recovered.
27th in 20+ yard KO returns.
22nd in 40+ yard KO returns.
22nd in KR avg.
24th in KR long.
24th in 20+ yard punt returns.
27th in fair catches.
19th in PR long.

2. Piss poor ground game (including too many 2nd and 3rd and longs b/c of it):
31st in YPC.
30th in rushing TDs.
30th in rushes of 10+ yards.
31st in 20+ yards.
24th in 1st down %.
27th in fumbles.

3. Playing 6 different practice squad players at offensive skill positions. (Not conducive to good chemistry.)
4. Three injuries to starting WRs/TE.
5. Sprained knee. (Not conducive to accuracy.)
6. Using 11 different combinations at Oline.
7. Incompetent Henning and his incessant use of BS playaction that only takes Henne's eyes away from the field.
8. Sparano's ridiculous, excessively conservative, play for a FG mentality.
9. Having Penny lurking in the background, impairing Henne's ability to make this team his own.
10. Not altering or adjusting the offense to suit Henne's strengths & play style (including the playbook & personnel).
11. Lack of skill players' ability to pick up chunk yards (including no outlet back or legit vertical threat).
12. Henning & Sparano not properly utilizing Brandon Marshall.
13. Not having the proper personnel to convert all the 3rd and longs given to us by our ground game.
14. Not having the personnel to score points in a hurry when trailing.

 

I've watched the games. Yeah his TD % went up. From 2.7% to 3.1%. An increase of 15%. Why don't you tell us how his INT % went up, from 3.1% to 3.8%. An increase of 22.5%. That is not an improvement. That is a regression. How many defensive players in 2009 came out and said they KNEW exactly what Henne was going to do. and a week later, after hearing that, we heard it again. And again.

 

I like QB rating as a measure of defensive success, but not for rating a QB's performance. It makes no distinction between an INT thrown b/c of a bad read and an INT thrown b/c a WR fell down or ran the wrong route. It makes no distinction between a screen pass that a RB turns into a 40 yd gain and a QB making a laser throw 40 yards down field, etc. Pass protection, play calls, weather conditions, none of that stuff is accounted for.

 

Yup. My sentiments, too.... and that's the part that needs to be understood IMO so that expectations can be more fair and accurate.
Henne has 1st round talent & potential, but he had aspects of his game that needed developing...... hence the late 2nd round pick.
Ryan & Flacco both redshirted, so they came in with 1 extra year's experience on Chad.

If we went by arm talent alone, Henne would've probably been worthy of a top 15 draft pick. People are gushing about Mallett's arm, but we're quick to forget that Henne's arm was the talk of the Senior Bowl and Combine IIRC. Chad's a gifted passer. That's undeniable, and that's why I don't mind enduring his growing pains. He's nothing like a John Beck. Beck came in with a low ceiling and wishes he had half Chad's talent.

A top 15 pick caliber arm that's taken in the late 2nd round means "dont expect the guy to impact for a few years b/c parts of his game need developing". Some players just take longer than others. That's what I find odd about fans who want Henne out in lieu of Newton, Locker, Mallett, Kaepernick, Ponder, or Gabbert. These fans don't have the patience to let Henne develop even though he's possibly a season away, but they do want to start the process ALL OVER AGAIN with guys who will most likely take between 2-4 years to develop before they can be relied upon to carry a team.

 

Your a trip dude. Wether you want to acknowledge it or not Henne had a part in contributing to all those bad stats that you put so much effort into listing. I'mnot saying everything was Henne's fault but you seem to want to give him a pass on everything just because he is in his 3rd year. You act like your fighting some great moral battle against a bunch of people who are out to unfairly bash him. Last I checked, we are all fans of the same team and we all want to win games. Henne is a weak link on this team and he is struggling.

The modern NFL heavily favors passing and the rules and the refs are very QB freindly and so far Henne has not shown the ability to get it done out on the field. Ask yourself if Henne became a FA tomorrow how many teams would offer him a starter job. I can tell you it would be a short list of offers in a leauge with a long list of teams that need a QB.

BTW your stats don't really prove anything other then the team struggled last season. I'm not arguing these points but could if I wanted too:

1. Our running game struggled because Henne could not back defenses up by forcing them to respect his ability to complete long passes.

2. Our O Line struggled because Henne has a slow release and terrible footwork

3. Our offensive schemes were limited because Henning was forced to design plays around Hennes limitations

4. Our recievers struggled because of Hennes poor delivery

5. Our defense struggled because Henne could not move the ball for us and consistently left our defense in a difficult postion when they took the field

Its very easy to turn the tables on your argument and I could say your stats prove my point. Again I am not blaming everything on Henne I was only pointing out that your defense of him is a weak one. I hope Henne is making the most of this off season to improve his game because he really needs to do that to be playing at starter level. I think the best thing that could happen to Henne is for us to sign a vet who can start and let Henne ride the pines a few more years while he picks the game up. I think he could develop into being a good QB but he is not ready to do it on the fly and it seems to be hurting his game rather then improving it by trying to force him into the starter role before he is ready.

 

One stat, really? I thought you were going to talk about his footwork, mechanics, delivery, progressions, pocket presence, eye discipline, pre-snap reads, accuracy, coverage recognition, leadership, toughness, etc. Those are the things that actually tell you whether a QB is playing well, improving, etc. I thought you'd break down all of his INTs and explain why they were his fault, how he was making the same mistakes over and over, and how that was why you thought he regressed.

I respect your opinion though, so let's just agree to disagree.

 

Are you including the false INT awarded to Pitt? How about the INTs that resulted b/c of receivers stopping routes etc? Or the unnecessary INT at the end of the Jets game thanks to the ST debacle? Are you factoring in Chad having the least amount of dropped INTs in the league? What about the couple that resulted from receivers falling down?

Those defensive players said they knew what our offense was doing b/c Henning (you know---- the guy who was fired!!) was too friggin predictable......... and b/c they knew that Henne wouldn't stray away from what he was coached to do. Nice try though.

 

Fanatics.

 

Reminds me of watching the games w/ my kid.

"Henne sucks, I knew we were gonna lose"

"Nah son, the WR fell down, see there, number 82 slips out of his break."

"Well if 82 slipped then why didn't that idiot throw to someone else?"

"A falling WR is very hard to anticipate..."

" Why do Peyton Manning's WR's never fall!!!"

"Peyton has magical powers. And he plays on artificial turf."

"Why cant we get Peyton Manning?"

"Bill Polian has magical powers."

"You mean Bill Parcells?"

"LOL, never mind."

 

Very true. Flacco, Freeman, and Sanchez's ratings were inflated b/c of these reasons..... where as, conversely, Henne's was not.

QB Rating also doesn't account for a coach taking the ball out of the QBs hands b/c he's too freakin conservative and would rather get FGs. A lack of TD opportunities are a great way to drag down a QB rating, even though Henne made as much or more with the opportunities afforded him as the other young guns.

A ground game that struggles to pick up solid yards on 1st down will also negatively affect a QBs rating........ as will the QB being put into numerous 3rd and longs when he doesn't have enough guys capable of quickly getting open 10 yards downfield when the defense knows it's coming.

 

dude, I've already said he has a part in it. The point is he's not the sole fault. The point is he was drafted as a developmental QB. The point is developmental QBs need time to develop, sometimes 3-4 years. The point is we were losing as a team. The point is if we had a consistently solid D, a consistently solid ground game, solid special teams, and a lack of injuries, that we could've easily gone to the AFC Champ game just like the Jets did with Sanchez...... then Henne could've beaten Pitt in that game just as he "had" them beat during the season....... and then we could've played the SB Champ Packers and possibly beaten them like Henne did during the regular season.

 

my ambien has kicked in and i know not what I sayin so time for me to sign out abouat now. over and out.

 

I'm curious, how did he contribute to our poor KO coverage? Did they get tired because Henne was leading too many scoring drives?

I don't know how many teams, but seeing as we'd have ZERO QB's under contract, I'm pretty sure we'd be one of them.

Let's see.

I disagreed at first, because I didnt see any teams really stacking the box vs us this year, but then I thought about it and you're right, I was just watching Henne on run plays, and he NEVER blocks his man, EVER! He just stands there, watching. That's why we go WC so often, so that Henne cant mess up our run game. The Chiefs-Raiders-Jaguars-Jets-Vick, they finished top 5 in rushing, that's clearly b/c of their excellent QB play and passing attacks. Hopefully we'll a QB who can run block like Cassell-Campbell-Garrard-Sanchez or Vick so that we're not bottom of the barrel in rushing anymore.

Our OL allowed a season high 6 sacks, in the one game where Henne didn't play. Must've been Thigpen's slow-er release and terrible-er footwork. Ditto for Pennington, Carey threw a look out block vs Tennesee and Pennigton was done for the year after 2 plays.

Did you see the Chicago game? We could've played 8 quarters and we wouldn't have scored.

Here I agree, partially. Bess and Hartline had career highs in yds and catches, while Marshall was on pace for 90+ catches and 1200 yds. But, Roberto Wallace and Marlon Moore were awful. They never looked that bad in college, while they were going undrafted, or on the practice squad. It wasn't until they got to the pros and had to play with Henne's awful delivery that they began to look bad. You mean to tell me that Kevin Curtis beat testicular cancer, but he cant catch a TD from Henne? Clearly that is on the QB.

Did you see the Chicago game? Or the 2nd Jets game? The D played their best game of the season on a day when Henne did absolutely nothing w/ the ball all game long. But the defense forced a couple TO's, the ST unit was solid, Fields was awesome, and we won in spite of Henne's total lack of production. We did score more points at NY than the Packers did, though.

.

Respectfully, it's also very easy to spot a guy who isn't making a serious argument and perhaps doesn't really know what he's talking about. Todd didnt just make up a bunch of stuff, he made a point and used dozens of stats to back up his claims. There's not a single person on this entire board who has come anywhere near that level of factual support during any negative critique of Henne. It's mainly fans who see losses and poor production and instinctively blame the QB because that's what fans do. But when people are challenged to back up their statements, they tend to get exposed..

 

OK maybe I missed some of your earlier posts because it sounds like we agree that Henne was not the entire problem but he was not some helpless victim in the meltdown either. I think you are reaching a bit with the whole AFC championship thing but who am I to discourage some good ole fan optimism. Out of curiousity, putting the past seasons behind us and looking forward, do you think Henne has earned being named the starter going into next season, based on what he has shown you so far?

 

Are we really going to be this petty?

So what your essentially saying is Henne is better then not having any QB on the roster at all. I guess we can agree on that point.

You have a way of twisting my words out of context. I never said anything about stacking the box.

Yup, you got me, thats what it was...........

I am not even sure what your point is here. You really think that 1 particular game, coming off a short week, riddled with injuries, and starting our 3rd string QB shows that Hennes struggles came more from his surrounding cast then it had to do with him in the games he played in? Is that what your saying here?

How many TD passes did he throw again? How many deep balls did he complete? How many 3rd and long conversions did he make? I get it though, all those stats are because the recievers played poorly and hurt Henne's numbers. He bears no responsibility for any of that?

I never said our other units could not of played better through out the season. I pointed at that all those stats being posted could be interupted in a number of different ways. Thats all I was saying. You are trying to make this out to be something it is not. I was not even entirely disagreeing with Todd. I only disagreed with what he was using as evidence to make his point. Cherry picking stats does not mean a hill of beans. It is a team sport and every unit effects eachother. When the QB struggles it burdens all other facets of the game and all those stats could be looked at as an indication of that and not proof that Henne was a victim of a poor surrounding cast.
.

Just because you have a different oppinion then me, are the insults necessary? I did not agree with his post and I explained why and I managed to do it without belittling anyone. Why are you trying to bring it to a different level? He used a list of stats to prove his case and I don't think they did and thats all I said. I did not even say I disagreed with his assment of Henne. I said I disagreed with his proof. I'm not lookingto have an argument with you or anyone else, just a discussion about Henne.

 

Good luck trying to get these guys to buy into the fact that TD/INT ratio is an important stat. I've screamed it from the top of every mountain. Stat guys also ignore the importance of 4th quarter play. The difference between Mark Sanchez and Chad Henne this year (besides the interceptions) was that Mark Sanchez made big plays in the 4th quarter. Henne did that in 2009, but not in 2010. The stats do nothing to account for that. You have to watch, and remember, the games.

 

Here is your quote:

Our running game struggled because Henne could not back defenses up by forcing them to respect his ability to complete long passes.

FirsWell, we were ranked #4 in rushing in 2009, with Henne as the QB, and 1st in rushing TDs with 22. Only 1 of the top 5 rushing teams in 2010 can even claim to have a decent QB, that would be Vick, who by the way, is the primary season why Philly ranked in the top 5 in the first place. Green Bay was ranked 24th in rushing, is that because Rodgers failed to back the defense off? I can honestly say, that all of the Henne bashers, you're the first one I've seen who blames him for the collapse of the running game. Most blame the interior OL, or the backs. I admire your originality.

I'm saying look what happened when Henne went down, that is all.

I dont think any of our top 3 WRs played poorly. I just dont think that they have they skill set necessary to do what they were being asked to do, same goes for Henne. I'll leave the blame game for others to play.

No one is cherry picking anything at all, our main points dont even revolve around stats. The points revolve around naked eye judgements that we support with factual evidence, something that the Henne bashers can never provide.

Its not personal at all, we're all Fin fans. Just kinda gets old, guys bashing Henne, we ask him to put up some evidence, he can't. Its de ja vu all over again. Hopefully Henne can go out and put an end to the discussion this year.

 

An INT is only an INT if the defender catches the ball. So a team like Miami, who led the league in dropped INTs, might have a deflated INT/TO ratio, especially if that same team led the league w/ fewest INts dropped by the opponents. Sanchez led the league in dropped INTs, Henne was last. That's what I call a statistical aberration. Kudos to Sanchez for making plays vs Miami, Cleveland, Detroit and Houston though, its amazing what a QB can do when he has a consistent run game. You were saying something about Henne in 2009, right?

 

So basically, your defense of Chad Henne has devolved into he was just unlucky?

I'm willing to meet you somewhere half way on this. It's clear Chad Henne's struggles were more than just his own. Others share the blame. It's a team sport. And Henning is one of the worst offensive coordinators for today's current NFL.

But you and others seem unwilling to place any responsibility on Henne. The fact of the matter is, this is a QB league. The QB sometimes unfairly shoulders all the blame when things go wrong and often unfairly reaps the rewards when things go right. Just the way it is. If the guy taking the snaps can't get it done, he loses his job. We don't make the decision for whether or not Chad gets another chance. If he does, I hope he excels just like anyone else.

 

Stick to PoFo bro.

 

Trade that kid in, he's already forum material.

 

Are you disputing what I said. You think all those stats are evidence that poor Henne is being victimized and his poor play is more other peoples fault then it is his own personal struggles?

 

For the record this is not an act. The only rules I have to follow here at the board are those laid down by the admins. If the mods tell me I've done something wrong then I stop doing it. If you tell me I can't post a certain way I will automatically ignore it. As for Brandon Marshall his catch and yards numbers aren't as important to me as his production. A measly 3 TD's and a 2.8 YAC avg. That is not a very productive year for what is billed as a top 5 WR. I think his value here is way over elevated and he gets a pass for his name from most Dolphin fans. As for Henne the guy was put in way too many bad situations last season to ever be thrown away so early in his career. A prime example is go back to the Baltimore game. Ronnie Brown ran the ball six times for 45 yards on our first drive and after that he carried the ball three times for fourteen yards the rest of the day. Ricky ran the ball twice for 1 yard. Do the math here. After the first drive we ran the ball 5 times for 15 yards the rest of the god damn game yet people blame Henne for his three INT's that day. He threw the ball 35 times. How can you be successful with an offense like that. We aren't the freakin Colts. Hell Manning would struggle in a situation like that. Henne was blamed continuously for stuff like this and it is ridiculous. Even his coach threw him under the bus in front of the media and the HC backed him. I lost my mind. This guy is a first time full time starter and you treat him this way.
I say it to the coaching staff and to the impatient fans who carry out the Henne witch hunt. You have to give this guy time to develop. You aren't going to get instant Marino. The expectations for a QB with this fan base is through the roof and it is just plain ignorant to expect instant Pro Bowl QB. To the Henne haters... bashing on Henne after the offensive debacle last season is just foolishly impatient and pointless. He will get another shot as deserved. I hope he proves each and every one of you knee jerkers to be dead wrong.

 

Was totally reaching for the AFC Champ thing. That was thrown in more for fun. lol. I know we're too young and inexperienced as a team to get that far this soon. IMO the talent is there, but the consistency isn't. When we're at our best, we can play with anybody IMO, even with Henne at QB.

Personally, I'd bring in a vet to compete with him, and not because I don't trust Henne, but rather because I don't trust this regime to develop a QB. IMO Henne has earned the job b/c of what he's been through, but I'd still like some competition to push him. However, I don't want it to be an old, experienced vet so that we don't have to relive what we went through with Penny where the entire team was looking at him as the leader rather than Henne.

When I analyze Henne as our potential 2011 starter, I completely ditch the 2nd half season's game tape b/c that's like trying to effectively judge a beauty pageant after a case of beer. The 2nd half was such a mess that I honestly wouldn't have expected any NFL QB to show any consistency.

So I go back to 2009 and the first half of 2010...... and then I look for anything positive in 2010 that he wasn't doing in 2009. 2009 showed promise & great potential. Then I fast forward to the first 2010 game vs NY. That's the guy I'm excited about. If we build an offense & playbook around THAT guy, then he can be a top 12 QB within a year or two IMO. The problem I have is that we have YET to do that since we drafted Chad. That's just not acceptable. It's hard for a guy to succeed if you don't give him to tools to do so. A lot of people allude to Marshall, but TBH Brandon is a guy more meant for Penny than Henne. He's a possession receiver, albeit an elite one, but a possession receiver none the less. If Henne were in Philly's offense, he would tear it up!!

The guy I saw vs the Jets.... and the guy I saw in the first half vs Detroit <in a horrendous wind> was even better than the kid I saw in 2009. The one thing I'm excited to see him build upon is his awareness to consciously tuck and run, which he wasn't doing before. This was a major break through IMO. He realized he can use his feet. That part finally clicked. We're going to see him doing it more often and extending more drives...... and as he gets better at it we're going to see his mobility in the pocket get better b/c his brain has finally been tuned in to his feet. He doesn't have as bad of mobility as people think. His shuttle and cone drills were as good as Freeman, Stafford, and Ryan's. I think this year we'll see him starting to move defenders with his eyes and keeping them downfield more under pressure, and we'll see an improved player vs cover 2.

IMO Henne needs another year of developing in an environment that doesn't put a ridiculous amount of stress on him to carry a team <similarly to how NY does for Sanchez and Balt does for Flacco>. This is what will help him progress into a quality player.

He needs to be in a "contributing" role next year that allows him to fine tune his game...... which means--- get the ground game respectable so that more of his pass attempts are "less predictable" than last year and so that there are less difficult 3rd and longs.
Get him a playmaking outlet back who can pick up 20+ yards a clip so that the chains don't have to be constantly moved 10 yards at a time, easing Henne's burden.
Get him a true seam-splitting TE to help create more spacing around the field (and b/c he can make that throw).
Add another playmaker at WR to compliment the offense and help pick up the chunk yards we're sorely lacking.
Get in a return threat to give us some short field opportunities, and work all off season on Sean Smith, Clemons, and Vontae's hands so that we can turn all those pick opportunities into actual picks, providing Henne with some freakin short field drives for a change. Go back to last year and see many of our drives were 70+ yards. It's infuriating....... and entirely too much pressure to put on a young QB without a ground game.

If we can do most of the above, then I WANT Henne as the starter b/c I already know he can win when we're doing much of this, evidenced by his 5-1 record last year when we rushed for over 100 yards (It'd be 6-0 if our defense didn't fall apart vs Detroit). I know he can win the big games b/c he's beaten Brady; he's 3-1 vs the Jets; he beat the SB Champs; he should've beaten the SB runner ups; and he's won games in the 4th QTR. As bad as he was vs Cincy, he still led a 96 yard TD drive in the 4th QTR that helped us seal the game.

 

TD/INT ratio isn't a telling stat if your OC & HC play for FGs and don't allow your QB to throw in the redzone despite converting as many TDs per snap as Drew Brees, with an equal QB rating to boot. It doesn't account for skill position players who can't turn routine catches into big gains. And it doesn't account for half a dozen INTs happening due to receivers falling or running bad routes, especially when the QB leads the league in "fewest amount of dropped INTs".

Henne could've easily had 24 TDs if the ball wasn't taken out of his hands in the redzone and he had more playmakers capable of scoring on their own. He also could've had more TDs if our defense didn't lead the league in missed TO opportunities or wasn't near the bottom in TOs created. He could've had more TDs if we had a return game that wasn't near the bottom of the league. TDs are harder to come by when your drives are typically 70+ yards, you have ZERO ground game, you have 2 WRs for part of the year, have ZERO WR/TE depth, and you lack playmakers. I'm not making excuses...... only stating fact.

 

Don't forget all those TDs by Sanchez where he threw a pass to Holmes, then ran 12 yards down field, picked Santonio up over his shoulders, juked a few defenders, then kicked in the burners and hauled him into the endzone. Damn why does Henne have to be so slow.

Ohhh..... also don't forget the passes where Sanchez chucked it up to Edwards......... then hurried down field to boost Braylon up to catch it over DBs, then sticking his foot out to trip the DBs so Edwards could scurry in for a TD. lol.

 

Respectfully, you say this but it's not true. GM, myself, and others have stated on numerous occasions that our QB play was part of our woes. The only difference is that we expect Chad to endure growing pains and problems b/c that's part of the developmental process. If we ditch a developing QB with great upside and potential for an experienced veteran who is virtually tapped out ceiling wise, then what does that say for us long term? We'll always be that team that prioritizes a quick fix over long term success and greater upside. We'll continue the unsuccessful revolving door at QB that's gotten us nowhere.

If our team does what it's supposed to: run the ball well, play solid consistent D, create turnovers, and play good special teams, then there's no need to bring in a limited upside vet b/c Henne should be able to win in those circumstances just as he did last season. However, if our team continues playing like it did last year AS A TEAM, then I don't see ANY vet QB coming in and taking us to the playoffs. We'd need Manning or Brady for that, and we're not getting them. lol.

People talk about Hasselbeck. They look at one playoff game and completely forget that Matt had a worse year than Henne..... and that he had as many wins as Henne, but in the weakest division in football. He was 1-5 during his last 5 regular season games with 4 TDs to 10 INTs.

Carson Palmer was nothing special last year and has been anything but consistent. We don't even know what Carson will show up here. We could very well end up getting another Caulpepper.

Kevin Kolb in this offense would look nothing like the Kolb we saw in Philly b/c this offense is harsh on a young QB and is anything but conducive to one's development. He'd regress here his first year.

Vince Young. need I say more? lol.

a 2011 rookie? They will all run into problems here early on, and we'll see poorer QB play for the next 2 years than we saw last season.

As good as Bradford's potential looks, he still had a worse year than Chad. The difference in the stat column is due to Bradford not having the ball taken out of his hands in the redzone (hence he had more TDs even though he converted less TDs per redzone attempt) and b/c Bradford had more dropped INTs. Then you factor in level of competition where Sam faced arguably the easiest schedule of any team, where as Henne faced one of the toughest. Henne played 5 games vs defenses ranked in the top 6 in Passer Rating allowed. Sam played 1. Henne played 7 games vs defenses ranked top 8 in scoring (including the top 3). Bradford played 2 (none of the top 3). Henne played just 2 games vs teams ranked in bottom 8 in scoring D. Sam played 6. Henne played 2 games vs defenses ranked in bottom 8 in Passer Rating allowed. Sam played 5.

If the team is built up properly, I trust Henne's talent and potential more than anyone else available at this point. I'd rather build up the rest of the team to where we're competitive, and if it seems then that Henne is holding us back, then I'd make every play possible in 2012 to move up for a top QB.

 

I was in no way trying to tell you what you can and can't do. Just explaining why some take offense to you painting yourself as a superior fan. All while very obnoxiously doing exactly what you accuse others of doing from your high horse. By all means though, keep at it.

So you can blame every other player on the team for Henne's struggles, but it would be a reach to suggest Brandon Marshall's drop in production might be because of a poor offensive gameplan or [GASP] Henne's struggles? Again, you're hypocritical. By all means, criticize players you don't like but don't try and paint it as any different from what people are doing with Henne. If we are "bashing" Henne, then you're "bashing" Marshall.

How exactly would it be proving me wrong. Look above a few posts -

You can also check any other thread I've posted in about Henne. I would be just as happy to see him excel at QB next year as anyone else. But to say he doesn't deserve his share of the blame for last year's ineptitude on offense is inaccurate, IMO. And so many posters said the same thing about Beck and then pitched a fit when he never saw the field again. Henne is a much better QB than Beck, but his fate could be the same. I hope he gets a fair shot, but as a Henne fan you should know he might not. Coaches, especially those with their jobs on the line don't make a habit of hitching the fate of their job to struggling QBs, fair or not. And they certainly don't care what us fans think either. Hopefully Sparano will start the QB that gives us the best shot to win now and in the future. Maybe that guy is Henne. Nobody on this board knows for sure.

 

Pass ratings systems suck! Period! They don't take into account half the things that should be.

As for Scoring defense. It goes against a unit that is not even on the field. Their own Qb's interception for a TD goes against his own defense, and if you don't see it as a flaw, I don't know what to tell you.

 

I'm sorry man, I need to do a better job of explaining myself. I've never said Henne was some great QB who was being hamstrung by bad circumstances. I've listed his deficiencies several times, in this thread, even. Heck, I can name more things wrong w/ Henne than most of the Henne bashers lol.

My point is, and Todd, Marine, and many others' point is, we don't need to give up on Henne based on his previous struggles. There are reasons for his struggles, IMO most of them are fixable and many of them are overall offensive issues that are blamed on Henne b/c he is the QB. Bottom line, I think we can compete w/ him as our QB, so long as we make the proper investment in his success, something I don't think we've even come close to doing so far. If we make the investment, and Henne cant get it done, then I'm all for getting rid of him. But to spend 3 yrs developing a QB and then want to start from scratch w/o ever knowing whether Henne is capable of being the guy, I can't support that.