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What do we need to run the Bill Parcells 3-4

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Mrtree, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    I think there is a general consensus that Parcells will bring in a defensive coordinator to run his personal style of defense and pick up personelle in the draft to complete the transition. So what players do we need to complete the transition? In our current "hybrid" 3-4 we actually line up in a 4-3 more often than a three four. What players might we be missing to do this full time?

    The 3-4 was designed for two main reasons. One is the lack of top shelf talent at DE. It is very hard to find terrific pass rushers to man your DE positions. It is easier to find great athletes at the lb position and send them from multiple angles. The second reason is since linebackers are better athletes than defensive linemen you have much more flexibility in the acutal defensive formations you run.

    NT and DE- The prototypical 3-4 NT is a 350 lb + monster. The DEs should also be large...usually in the 300+ range. All three are assigned two gap responsibilities. They are expected to hit the offensive linemen head on and keep an eye out for a running back squeezing through on either side of their guy. The primary goal of all three of the defensive linemen is to occupy the o-line and allow the four linebackers to make their plays.

    LB - Linebackers are pivotal in the 3-4. The inside linebackers in a 3-4 are typically in the 240 range and should be VERY athletic. The outside linebackers are usually over 250 and are DE/LB tweeners. Since they are lighter than 4-3 DEs it is harder for the qb to roll out and there is better lateral persuit to running plays.

    The extra linebackers illustrate the strength and the weakness of the 3-4. Because of the number of athletes on the field the defense is better able to track and contain running backs and mobile quarterbacks. However the three down linemen are an inadequate pass rush on passing plays. The current solution is to run zone blitzes dropping the DBs into man coverage along with the linebackers who do not blitz. The disadvantage to this is most modern receivers have the height/leaping abaility to go over the top of the typical corner in man coverage.

    CB - because of what was just discussed the prototypical 3-4 corner is more physical than his 4-3 version. They need to be able to scrap and get after a receiver. Theoretically in a zone blitz if two linebackers are coming with the three linemen the qb should have to get rid of the ball quickly enough where straight line speed is less important than having the physical tools to make a play on the ball.


    ----How do our guys measure up?------

    Rod Wright (300) Matt Roth (277) and Vonnie Holliday (288) are our DEs in this scheme.

    With the recent departure of Keith Traylor from the team Paul Solial (344) is the only NT currently on the roster.

    OLBS are Joey Porter (250) Quentin Moses (260) and Jason Taylor (255)
    ILBs are Zach Thomas (228) Channing Crowder (245) Derrick Pope (232) and Donnie Spragan (240)

    CBs are Michael Lehan (190) Andre Goodman (185) Will Allen (196) and Travis Daniels (192)

    Safeties are Yeremiah Bell (200) Jason Allen (213) Lance Schulters (202) and Cameron Worrell (194)

    --------Trends--------

    One trend that holds through on each level of our defense is that we are either in the lighter range of player at each position to flat out underweight. The 3-4 revolves around physicality and I think we will see a concentrated effort to beef up our guys at every level. The other is that with the departure of Keith Traylor acquiring a true NT becomes a glaring need. The only man on the roster who even fits the physical mold is Paul Solial and he did not seem up to the task in 2007. (Although you never know how a player will develop, especially under new coaching.) Also while Roth has shown glimpses I am not sure if he will be up to being a full time end in the 3-4 which requires a more solid build. Roth seems to me to be more of a 4-3 end and is too heavy to be a 3-4 OLB. Given the nature of the defense I think it is a given we will see at least two if not more linebackers targeted in FA/draft along with a true nose tackle, a defensive end, and secondary players capable of being more physical than what we currently have. Will Allen actually may slot in nicely as he plays a little more physical version of corner and is willing to come up on the run.
     
  2. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Rod Wright, and potentially Vonnie Holliday should be able to play the 3-4 end spots.

    Paul Soliai is a NT, but Parcells has used lighter players (Ferguson, Ratliff) in Dallas.

    Porter, Moses, Abraham Wright, and Taylor (if kept) are OLBs. I'd like us to target Gholston to play the strongside opposite Porter, and groom Moses to eventually replace Porter on the weakside.

    I think Crowder can get away with playing one of the inside spots. I think Zach could as well, but I don't think he'll be around, so this is an area of need.

    Players I think we'll look at come draft time and what their 3-4 position would be.

    Chris Long DE UVA
    Kendall Langford DE Hampton
    Kentwan Balmer DE North Carolina
    Glenn Dorsey NT LSU
    Frank Morton NT Tulane
    V. Gholston OLB Ohio State
    Derrick Harvey OLB Florida
    Shawn Crable OLB Michigan
    Jon Goff ILB Vanderbilt
    James Laurinaitis ILB Ohio State
    Brandon Miller ILB Georgia
    Rodrick Johnson ILB Oklahoma State
    Ben Moffitt ILB S. Florida

    As far as CB, I think just about any of them should be looked at, we need help, and I wouldn't mind a strong safety brought in. Just don't trust Yeremiah Bell's full recovery that quickly/ability to stay healthy.
     
  3. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    A name to consider not on your list is J lehman from Illinois
     
  4. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Crowder won't fit the scheme very well. I know a lot of you people are so in love with him, but I really don't know the difference between Crowder and Marlon Greenwood.

    Crowder is a backup starting on a team that lacks depth at the linebacker position.
     
  5. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    We need 3 down lineman, and 4 LB's to run this.
     
  6. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    You took the words right out of my mouth.
     
  7. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    I have to be honest....when I look more than a couple of years down the road I only feel good about a couple of guys in our front 7. (Rod Wright and maybe Joey Porter). ZT and JT will be gone sooner or later and everywhere else I see a resounding meh.
     
  8. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Agree, agree, agree

    As far as CB, that might be the one area that I would consider spending FA money (Asomugha, Samuel).

    That's why I was saying that this is a 2 or 3 year process. ;)
     
  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I considered Lehman, left him off just for his size, all the others are bigger than he. I was impressed with what I saw of Lehman's play this year though.
     
  10. Nando03

    Nando03 New Member

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    We need a NT to run the 3-4. Soliai needs to be groomed but we need someone in the meantime to hold down that position.
     
  11. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Actually, we need someone else anyway because NT is a prime position where you need some quality depth.
     
  12. Danny

    Danny New Member

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    The original post was a good one...a player coming out that we could look at is Frank Okam...he could be a NT for us....as far as what we have, Holliday,Roth and Wright seem like the DE's and I like Chris Long at 1...as far as the LB's that we have I only really like Porter and Abe Wright....we need bigger ILB's...I like Moffit from So.Florida but look for Parcells to bring in a LB or 2 either in free agency or the draft.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  13. Sam

    Sam Member

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    From what I saw, in the bowl game, when Okam was being double-teamed, he was getting moved off the line. Kind of reminded me of our DL this year. May be it's technique, but certainly, he'll need some work.
     
  14. grushcow

    grushcow New Member

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    right now our biggest needs are at Nose and maybe ILB, nose tackle should be between 310-340 lbs, the ends should be 285-310 and, ILBs should be about 250 lbs and the rush ends should be between 245-265 lbs. Remember bigger is better so if a guys a little oversized he'll get some leway.
    Locks:
    DE Rod Wright, 316 lbs
    DE Vonnie Holliday, 290 lbs
    DT Paul Soliai, 344 lbs
    OLB Joey Porter, 250 lbs
    ILB Channing Crowder, 252 lbs

    On the bubble:
    DT Steve Fifita, 327 lbs
    DE Matt Roth, 270 lbs
    DE Jason Taylor, 260 lbs
    DE Derrek Robinson, 290 lbs
    OLB Quentin Moses, 260 lbs (hope he stays)
    OLB Donnie Spragan, 242 lbs
    ILB Zack Thomas, 235 lbs

    Start Packing:
    NT Anthony Bryant, 335 lbs (who??)
    NT Keith Traylor, 340 lbs
    DE Rob Ninkovich, 252 lbs
    LB Edmond Miles, 230 lbs
    LB Derrick Pope, 233 lbs

    Hopefully we address NT and ILB in the draft I'd like:
    NT Frank Okam, Texas
    NT Ahyta Rubin, Iowa St.
    DL Dre Moore, Maryland
    DL Kendall Langford, Hampton
    ILB Ezra Butler, Nevada
    ILB Jonathon Goff, Vanderbilt
    ILB Beau Bell, UNLV
    ILB Brandon Miller, Georgia
    ILB Rodrick Johnson, Oklahoma St. to name a few
    but IMHO we should trade down and select james laurinaitis (if he declares) because that will help our run D most and then we can select Dre Moore with a late 2nd or our 3rd.
     
  15. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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    I think JT plays full time OLB in this defense.
     

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