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What do you think our plan is at QB?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by AGuyNamedAlex, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Finishing with anything but the #1 or #2 pick most likely means we would have to trade up to get the QB we want.

    Either Tua or Burrows will go #1 if things play out as they have so far with what is to me a huge dropoff in talent from there. In other words a waste of a pick, so I hope we dont settle for anyone else.

    Anyway, even if we finish with the #3 pick it's very likely a team will try and jump us to take their QB. Meaning we will either have to trade up one spot...gross, or take Chase Young/Reach for a crappy QB.

    If the plan isnt to get the #1 pick, I dont think the FO actually has a plan on how to address the most important position on the field which worries me greatly.

    There are so many bad teams this year we could end up picking outside the top five. I really cant see us being anything but mediocre for a long time, especially after destroying our roster.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    a lot of to early to tell stuff..

    I dont think were out of the race for Tua..

    2 more starters down today on the most depleted roster the league has ever seen.
     
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  3. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    The bottom of the league is so bad I could see the Dolphins finishing outside the top 5. And I'm okay with the team building an offensive and defensive line waiting to find that QB this year or next.
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I don't see the Dolphins beating the Jets in Medowland with their new coach after Gase gets fired. Then they have no one who can cover AJ Green and he should be back for the Bengals.
     
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Honestly, how would someone not in the organization have any clue what their plan actually is?
     
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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I would imagine the plan has a ton of contingencies built in to it.

    They may have one, or two guys, they really want, but it may all depend on what happens on the night.

    It would seem common sense to me that they have goals/plans but are aware that they cannot guarantee anything and need to prepare for all eventualities. Grier and co have been spotted watching college games all season. They're doing their homework. I don't see how we can predict that though. Especially not this year. We're very much spectators of this rebuild. I've given up hoping for any sort of specific result in terms of personnel and am taking the approach of just watching what the new leadership team do and how they build.

    Obviously I hope they build it well, but I'm trying to not have expectations for any specific player. As has been said, many QB's get picked with low expectations and go on to do well. Whoever Miami select, I understand it will be part of the wider plan, and I'm excited to see how that all comes together. Just picking one guy, no matter how good, won't be the end of this. We're talking 2-3 years for it to come together - and not even the GMs etc can predict how that will fall. There will always be too many unknowns.

    Time and chance happen to everyone and everything.

    I do suspect that the plan is to draft a QB and have him spend a year behind someone - be that Fitz again, or Rosen. And I think I'd like to see that happen, I think it's the right approach to allow a new QB to develop properly.

    But we'll see!
     
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  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this was ever a "Tua or bust" scenario where he was the only name that mattered in the rebuild. As I've said many times now, I'm more worried about protecting our next quarterback and creating an environment that can lead to long-term success.

    If I had to guess today though, then I'd be leaning towards Lawrence in 2021 as our next quarterback. I still believe we'll be trading back with some of those top picks to stockpile even more heading into 2021...if the BPA doesn't fit a need, then we'll slide back and pick up more ammo for this depleted roster.
     
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  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    You guess the FO are going for Lawrence or Lawrence is who you'd be pursuing?
     
  9. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Think of it as a sister thread to the thread about what we SHOULD do at QB.

    I'm not asking for a specific player necessarily you think they will take, but an educated guess on what they may do to address the position if we arent picking in the top two or three picks.
     
  10. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lamar Jackson was the last player taken in the first round and is looking so far like the best QB taken in that draft. I think the brain trust is less obsessed with the #1 overall than some posters here and more focused on identifying the real talent in the first round and having multiple picks and the flexibility to grab him and some supporting cast.
     
  11. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think we have to let the plan come to us. There are a few posters on here that I agree with. Galant said that there are a lot of contingencies built in and striking brought up the possibility that we finish outside the top five picks. I think both make very solid points.

    I think that the first thing that would should do is inquire about the #1 pick early in the process. What would it take to get there? If the offer is reasonable, we take it. I personally would not be willing to mortgage the farm for Tua.

    If it doe not appear that trading up is a realistic option, I think we revisit Teddy Bridgewater. With a lot of draft capital, he may change his tune about coming to Miami. Again this is contingent on salary. I wouldn't break the bank, but I would feel comfortable with giving him a contract that has incentives that could break the bank.

    My 4-D chess move would be to trade back (likely the Pittsburgh pick) and acquire another 1st round pick in 2021. That would be the year that I would mortgage the farm and offer a blockbuster for Trevor Laurence.

    Finally, I would even consider "stay the course." Don't reach for a QB. Draft a ton of solid players. Just as a general reflection, I did not think Rosen looked horrendous at all. He "won the starting job for the remainder of the season" and after one bad outing, lost the job. Fitzmagic has looked good, and Rosen will have more time to get familiar with the system and learn from the coaching staff. Let them battle it out again in camp. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Fitzmagic started one more year.
     
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  12. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Good Grief! Thank You!

    They collective consensus on who is the top QB or two in the draft since Andrew Luck has been out of step with the reality of whom the best QB has actually been. Sure I like Tua and he looks the part but is he really going to be a star at the next level? I don't know and the thing is no one does. It's always a crap shoot so I'm thinking there is an awful lot of angst about who identifying who the best QB is. Recent history has pretty much shown that the consensus has been dead wrong.
     
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  13. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I think everyone's obsession with the #1 pick better get over it. The front office may have gutted the roster in preparation of the future but These players and These coaches are out there trying to win every week and with our remaining schedule and the improvement every week it is highly likely they will win a couple more games and we will NOT have the #1 overall pick.

    Better prepare yourselves. The guys on the field are out there to win and they don't care if any fans or anyone in the press thinks they should loose.
     
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  14. Mafioso

    Mafioso Air Force's #1 Phin Fan

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    Good and fair points. My only comment is that as bad as this roster has been gutted....any BPA would fit a position of need lol. We're pretty terrible at the moment on paper, well also in reality but i like the fight this team has considering the talent gap from every opponent.

    With the Tua injury and Borrow balling out, its possible we could still get Tua if we fall to 5. Teams with a QB might jump us for Chase Young. I think they will have a plan that involves the right QB falling, know the prices for trading up to get the guys they want, and also just take the best franchise block available and see where the Lawrence dust settles next year. We traded for Rosen, if we can build a solid foundation we can really see what he has while we build the trenches...and if he really is hot garbage than he brings us one step closer to Lawrence if we dont go QB this year.
     
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  15. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I think one thing has been shown again as well. Don't rush to start your shiny new QB as soon as he is drafted. Stick them on the bench for a year so they can learn from the coaching staff and a veteran ( Fitzpatrick is just fine ). Bring them in for mop up duty late in games for some experience but don't put the pressure of making him the savior of the franchise while he is still wet behind the ears. Develop who ever it is.
     
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  16. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Lawrence hasn't exactly impressed this year. It's a darn good thing he is a sophomore because he needs some more time.
     
  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's so hard to speculate...some have reported that Lawrence was always the main target of this team while others have said they're 100% locked on Tua. I don't have any inside connections this season so I can't add anything to that other than saying Burrow looks like the consensus for the 1st QB off the board.

    With Tua being injured two seasons in a row, I think that's a red flag whether it's actually deserved or not. His replacement hasn't missed a beat either and that sends it's own message- how can Tua be a "must-have" QB when the backup plays at his level in that system? Like others I'm thinking Tua may slide a little in the top 10 and possibly be available for us to take even at #5 or 6. If I had to guess, I'm thinking we pass on him...but I could be 100% wrong. It's all how they feel in that front office about him.

    So if we can't draft Burrow and there's some questions about Tua, I don't see who else they'd be looking at seriously at QB with our top pick. Jalen Hurts will go later in the first or maybe even in the 2nd round, so that's a possibility for a later pick. Fromm or Herbert is a possibility too, but they could likely be had with Pitt's pick.

    What does that all mean? Our 1st overall pick will be Chase Young, Tua or a trade-back. If the front office is in love with Tua, he's our guy. If they're not, then we're either grabbing Young if he's available or we're trading for an extra 1st rounder.

    Or we could focus on other needs and stockpile for Lawrence in 2021, putting the other pieces in place to be a truly dominant offense. I personally feel that will be their route UNLESS they're just absolutely in love with Tua. Here's the thing though- even if Lawrence is the goal in 2021, that doesn't mean we won't grab Hurts anyway or someone late 1st/early in the 2nd round...that's the beauty of having all these picks and it's a good year to find a QB.

    One final thought- Burrow and Tua match-up this weekend and they'll likely meet again in the BCS Championship. I think those two contests will have a HUGE impact on the draft order...we really want to see Alabama (Tua), LSU (Burrow) and Clemson (Lawrence) in those playoffs just from a Fins draft perspective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  18. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Once front offices realize that fast and quick black players can actually throw the football the loophole will close. Watson, Jackson, Mahomes are doing a lot to show how foolish some of these front offices with their backwards thinking really are (looking at you Ryan Pace who should have been fired already). Can't rely on finding that exception, though Hurts may have a shot at being the next guy in that mold to be undervalued. I still want to see him against some real defenses first though.


    The playoffs will really be what matters for him. The amount of talent both he and Clemson have ... classic boredom more than actual regression.

    As for Lawrence in general, you just can't plan on a specific thing like that two years out. Can't. He is not the real target. That would be impossibly stupid. It would require two years of absolute futility to even have the remotest chance. If you want to say that QB isn't a focus for 2020, that's potentially fair - we can get some foundational bits in place before going QB, especially if the front office really isn't enamored of anyone. But to get Lawrence you likely will need the #1, because whoever is #1 next year likely will need a QB and they won't trade.
     
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  19. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Reload

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    Remembering how the gurus in here picked Brady Quinn but the Dolphins front office got a different memo.
    We all see how that worked out.
     
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  20. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Lamar Jackson looks great but dont get it twisted, both Mahomes and Deshaun look far better.. they can both move and they pass the ball better than Lamar. 40% of his touchdown passes this season came from Week 1. We are headed to week 10.
     
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Watson and Mahomes also have an extra year on him. Jackson did just torch the vaunted Pats on national TV though. Either way, all 3 are good QBs.
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I bet the Bears are kicking themselves
     
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  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Torched? He threw for like 160 yards
     
  24. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    And ran for 2 scores.
     
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  25. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Extra year or not, Lamar isnt going to be that kind of passer. He is throwing javelins on a football field. He doesnt have the touch or arm talent that both Mahomes and Deshaun have shown since college.

    and he didnt torch the patriots secondary... lol
     
  26. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    We are a long, long way off from the draft. It's nearly half a year from now. For all we know, Tagovolia and Fromm will both decide to go back to school after seasons that haven't been as impressive as many thought that they would be, and the top of the class is left with Herbert and maybe Burrow.

    Beyond that, I really get tired of so many fans looking for a savior at QB and hoping that he'll play hero ball once he's on the team. Rather, I'm hoping for an offensive system that works like clockwork within a few seasons, and a QB who sees the field before and after the snap at an elite level, and then gets the ball to the open man to move the chains, over and over and over.
     
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    It's not about playing hero ball.

    It's that you can either play QB or cant, and nothing can change that.
     
  28. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Only once since Marino retired have we had any QB that could "see the field before and after the snap at an elite level and get the ball to the open man to move the chains" and that's Pennington in 2008. ONCE in 2 decades!

    So I don't see the issue with people clamoring for a solution to our QB problem. You might not like it that people constantly point out we need a good enough player at the most important position in football, but you'll just have to live with that until we actually solve the QB problem.

    And let's not deliberately mischaracterize other people's positions by saying we want the QB to play "hero ball" or so. That's counter-productive to any discussion. We just want to have a QB good enough to build the rest of the team around.
     
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  29. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Let’s start at the beginning.
    Fitzpatrick = mentor/backup who can provide a few quality starts but can’t be relied upon.
    Rosen = not the chosen one. At this point I’d be good with us cutting him or trading him for peanuts. Even Ryan Leaf had one game with an above average passer rating in his first 16 starts, which is one more than Rosen.

    1st round draft picks.
    Our pick = likely to be in the top 5, but not necessarily #1 overall. All the teams that could pick ahead of us, with the possible exception of the Jets, will want their “savior QB”. The only team I can see who might pick ahead of us and be willing to trade a bundle of picks for their pick is the Jets, and I don’t want us trading with no stinking Jets.
    Pittsburgh = probably in the pick 10 to 15 range, although it appears to be more likely to be a later pick than an earlier pick.
    Texans = looking around the mid to late 20s.

    “The Tank”. The FO has deliberately scraped the roster clean of big money contracts, with a view to having a clean slate moving forward. Over the last month the coaching staff has shown signs of getting the squad together mentally and playing tough. Honestly I prefer the Dolphins to be winning with a poor roster than giving up in the season and bombing for the number 1 slot. Coaching acumen and developing a winning culture is really important for long term success. We see well run teams like the Chiefs and Ravens able to slot in a “developmental QB” like Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson and flourish. We see not so well run teams like Tampa Bay and Tennessee take Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota and get stuck in the mud.
    While the number 1 spot is (unsurprisingly) the best place to find the best player in the draft, I don’t believe that the chance of success is so high to be worth deliberately crash and burning your franchise to obtain it.

    If we aren’t picking at 1 or 2 then I am happy to take Chase Young and then try for a QB with one of the later first round picks, possible packaging both Tennessee’s and Pittsburgh’s picks to move up.
    If we pick at 1 or 2 then get the best QB we can at the top of the draft.
     
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  30. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm not singling any individual out, and I don't want to tell anyone else that their opinion or preference is wrong, but it wears on me to have so many fans begging for a "seat of the pants" experience like some other teams have going on, with a QB running around, navigating chaos, and pulling miracles out of his rear end every week. Its the opposite of what I want. I'd rather keep on losing for a while longer than settle for that.

    I want the Dolphins to develop into a better version of the 49ers, Rams or Cowboys, with one of the best offensive lines in the game, a strong running game, dependable pass catchers all over the field, and a QB who can execute the game plan on a high level over and over, getting the team into the right position and throwing the ball to the open man.

    And I also firmly believe that if the right quarterback isn't there to be had this coming draft, then the best plan of attack is to fortify the rest of the team as best as possible this coming year, spend 2020 getting better in every area, then address the QB position in 2021. Don't be reckless, and decide that any one thing has to happen right now just because.
     
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  31. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    The Patriots secondary was never specifically mentioned although they are also responsible for stops in run support so yes they did get torched.
     
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  32. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah I know you care a lot about style. I personally care about results regardless of style.

    However, one thing I think you're misunderstanding is that we're not advocating for the team's QB to "run around, navigate chaos, and pull miracles out of his rear end every week". I personally would like to have a QB that can do that when necessary, but by no means should we want our QB to do that each and every week (or anything close) because that means the rest of the team isn't up to par!

    So maybe our position is more palatable to you once you realize we're not trying to change the style per se, just that we want to have a QB that can be relied on to win (through whatever means necessary) when the rest of the team isn't playing up to par.

    Yeah even if you prioritize the QB position you should never reach for one if the one you want isn't there.
     
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  33. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    We don’t want to end up with a QB who is good in chaos, but bad on script (eg Michael Vick, RG III, Johnny Manziel). We just got rid of a QB who is good on script, but bad in chaos (Tannehill). We need someone who can do both, they don’t have to be equally good at both parts but they do need to be at least average at both sides of the equation.

    Because QB is so important we have seen teams overreach for QBs a lot at the top of the draft in the last 10 to 15 years in particular. So if “our guy” isn’t there the temptation is to draft “some other guy” with a hope and a prayer.
     
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  34. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Obviously, you hope to develop your guy into someone who can do that when absolutely necessary. When you face an elite defense, or suffer injuries at the skill positions, ect. However, it shouldn't be something that needs to happen frequently. Once or twice a season. Some teams are relying on guys to do it on a nearly weekly basis. To me, that's a failure on team building and coaching. And its not sustainable.

    Sustainable.
    Repeatable.
    Reliable.
    Dependable.
    Consistent.

    That's what I want our offense to develop into.
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm not shooting the messanger here, so no offense to you for linking it.

    But Hell No! Absolutely not. We need to USE those picks, not give them away.
     
  37. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    That is a 'use' of those picks though. It's a high risk use, but it's a use. If it pans out and you have a legit, elite, franchise QB, then it was worth it. No brainer. Best investment that could be made. If it turns out like RG3 though...


    Anyone have a time machine? Grier would like to borrow it.
     
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  38. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    If another Micheal Vick is in the draft and he doesn’t hate dogs you don’t take him? Comparing him to Manziel doesn’t work for me, one was successful and the other washed out.
     
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  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I would advocate trading up only in the instance of a clear, generational franchise quarterback. And while we can agree to disagree on 2020, I don't personally think that any of them come close to qualifying. Nor has anyone else since 2012 with Luck. Those guys are rare. Better to use the picks to draft as many high end players as possible in other areas, and build the team up.
     
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  40. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    No, its a dangerous risk move that can set our franchise back for many years. IE: Redskins and RG3

    we have too many needs and 5 first round talents in two years can fix a lot of problems. We are more likely to hit on a star with five tries. I rather not swing and miss on just one guy.
     

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