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What next via Free Agency - Post Long Signing?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Da 'Fins, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    So, assuming the Dolphins were holding onto potentially $8 M per, plus (since Long took such a long time to agree), what do they do now?

    Eric Winston, OT, seems obvious. If he comes at a reasonable price.

    I think Abraham or Umenyiora at DE if they can get them reduced would be a big bonus.

    And, maybe one of the CBs ... Grimes is a question-mark as to his return to full health. Other thoughts?
     
  2. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I'd rather sign Vollmer than Winston. possibly weaken the king of the division and we get a guy who's played and excelled at both tackle spots...no brainer signing for me. If Martin doesn't improve enough we can easily put Vollmer back on the left side.
     
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  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well it's good that the top tackle is getting what 8.5 mill..

    Gotta give someone 7 mill..bring Volmer in.why New England hasn't signed that kid is a mystery.
     
  4. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    It wouldn't hurt Miami to hurt their competition. I don't think Vollmer healthy is far off what Long has been. New England's in a tight spot, taking Vollmer away from them is a little jab shot.
     
  5. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

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    I like Vollmer but he has had back issues of late. I perfer to see grab a tackle in the draft, we got extra picks to move back into the later part of the 1st round for either DJ Fluker or Justin Pugh.
     
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  6. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Who are some of the bargain FAs available:

    Brandon Moore has been an excellent guard for years.
     
  7. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'd probably take Volmer over Winston, but saying he has been a good LT is not accurate.

    I remember watching a cheatriots game last year where he was playing LT, and they were showing numbers on how bad he has played at LT. He was also beaten like a drum that afternoon.

    Long is going to be very tough to replace. Martin might be our best shot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
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  8. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Can we stop the cringe inducing "cheatriots" "belicheat" crap? It's rough to read.
     
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  9. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No.

    Next question?
     
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  10. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he the guy that took out the Houston Linebacker last year? Or am I getting him confused with the other JEST guard.

    In 40 years of watching football, that was amongst the dirtiest plays I have ever seen. I couldn't believe it when I watched it life the first time. He lined the guy up from his blindside and went DIRECTLY for his knee.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, football fans should stop insulting division rivals.
     
  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Thats exactly what Im hoping that they do. Bank that, and I'll consider it an A+ pre draft offseason.
     
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  13. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    Well the word I'm hearing is we'll be in the running for Dumervill if we didn't resign Long... Maybe snag Elvis and Winston, then draft a OT as well. That with the additions we've already made would be a HUGE offseason.
     
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  14. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    well, now that the Long situation is settled -- we can finally move on to:

    RT - Winston ... should be able to nab him for < 6 MIL
    CB Grimes ... should be able to nab him for < 4 MIL (should be a 'deal' coming off of his achilles injury)
    DE Abraham/Freeney/Dummervil ... shouldn't have to pay more than 5 MIL

    should be able to do all of these with our current available $$$$, sign the draft picks with some of the $$$ we pick up in JUN and then carry the rest to next year ....
     
  15. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm 99% sure that was their LG, Matt Slauson, and not Brandon Moore. AFAIK Moore's a pretty respected veteran; though I think he is who Sanchez ran into during the infamous "butt fumble" play.
     
  16. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yep, you're right it was Slauson.


    I have heard those trying to defend this, and maybe it's cause I despise the JESTS, but this is going past your man, waiting till he is looking the other way, and going directly into his knees. THIS should've warrented a suspension and fine.

    [video=youtube;c-GvUIr-Ayk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-GvUIr-Ayk[/video]




    And you are correct, he was the other part of the infamous "Butt fumble" play.
    I think he is serviceable, and a step up from John Jerry, but nothing more.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    My problem with the Eric Winston signing is he's obviously a right tackle, and that would means Jon Martin is our left tackle. At that point even if Joeckel/Fisher/Johnson make it to 12 (which they probably will not), they wouldn't be in play. I think Jon Martin should show us something before we entrust him with Ryan Tannehill's health and future. I don't like protecting the blind side with blind faith.

    If you sign Sebastian Vollmer, that's arguably not the greatest system fit, but he can play left tackle. He's done it before. He was forced to play it for 5 games in 2009 as a rookie and racked up a +17.5 PFF grade in just those 5 games, averaging +3.5 a game. He racked up a +66.1 grade in the next 46 games as a starter at right tackle, averaging +1.4 per game.

    Vollmer was a standout left tackle in college.
     
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  18. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I like Vollmer....but what is he going to cost? Cause doesn't he also have injury issues? If he's going to cost close to Long I can't see Ireland bringing him in...otherwise...why not just pay Long.
     
  19. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    What about Branden Albert? Word is, he's on the block with Joeckel all but signed.

    He's not open to the idea of moving to the right or inside, and KC is not going to draft a RT 1st overall. I'm not subscribed to PFF or anything, but I've heard he's a fine player.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes he has injury issues, no he won't be able to ask as much as Long because the market considers him a right tackle, and I would've just paid Jake Long anyway. His deal with St. Louis I hear is essentially a two year deal. I'd buy those two years to see if he just had a down year trying to learn a new system.
     
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  21. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    can we stop calling the cheatriots the patriots?? It's making me cringe.
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've not heard that. It would be the height of folly IMO to let Jake Long walk and forego Sebastian Vollmer, neither of which you have to give a draft pick for, in order to acquire Branden Albert (who needs a new contract and he'll probably try and model it after Jake Long) whom you have to pay a high draft pick for.

    That would be a terrible move.
     
  23. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    True on Long, but I also saw it was a 2 year deal, with the first year being 14 Garaunteed. That is a tall pill to swallow financially
     
  24. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Are you TRYING To piss me off this morning!!!!


    :up:


    You need to look out your window, about 500 miles Due East. That stream of water is me pissing at you!!!
     
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  25. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    They better use some of that Jake Long savings and re-sign Reshad Jones early then. I don't want that stretching out to him being close to FA also.
     
  26. mexdolfan

    mexdolfan New Member

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    I agree on the free agents you're mentioning but don't share some of your numbers.

    RT Eric Winston might be able for $5.5M in a multi-year deal.
    DB Brent Grimes should nail a $3.5M contract because of his recent Achilles tendon injury.

    DE Elvis Dumervil should grab a $7M contract, well above the $5M you implied.
    DE John Abraham isn't worth of top money for Miami and could be looking for a deal in the range of $4-$6M.
    DE Dwight Freeney is being targeted for several teams so his current price tag is close to $6M, and it's unlikely he would finish in town. Patriots played cheap on him and he just left that zone and could be moving into Denver.
     
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  27. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Winston, best zone blocking rt in the league. If the go into the draft with a glaring need at tackle, that is a missed opportunity.
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The bright side on Eric Winston is it's a perfect system fit and at least you'd have one pretty good tackle.

    The down side is you're trusting the blind side to a guy that allowed a pressure on the QB every 8.8 pass snaps last year at left tackle, which was even worse than his allowing a pressure every 11.2 pass snaps at right tackle.
     
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  29. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    winston is a great locker room guy too
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Pro Football Focus puts together a signature stat that isn't EXACTLY like what I've been doing with their basic stats since 2008, but it's close enough. It's only different in mechanics, not spirit.

    They take 0.75 times hits and pressures, add sacks, divide by pass snaps, and subtract all that from 100%. Out of all 72 offensive tackles that took at least 25% of their team's pass snaps, Jon Martin's 91.1% at left tackle would've ranked 67th. His 93.1% at right tackle would've ranked him 57th of the 72.

    That's the guy you're trusting with the franchise's blind side. I get it. He'll improve. He'll get stronger. Yadda yadda yadda. How do you know? You don't know. It's on faith. You're essentially saying this guy was one of the very worst (if not the worst) left tackles in the NFL last year, but we think he's going to be at the very least mediocre this year...based on...based on...umm...
     
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I agree with your observations here. And, you raise an excellent point about just signing Long (given its really a 2 year deal).

    I don't know enough about the Vollmer situation - but I have read and heard a lot of skepticism because a back issue can be much more debilitating than a knee issue. Backs are notoriously tricky and never seem to fully heal. Many back surgeries have failed. So, it seems that could be a big disaster waiting to happen. Thoughts?

    At the same time it is, as you note and many have, unlikely one of the top 3 OTs fall to 12 (and then it's painful to have to use your #1 pick on an OT when you had one there ...).

    I realize Martin is also a risk (I am a "wishful thinker" here). It's really not a great situation, imo, losing Long. They probably have some regrets - or will.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I can't comment on Vollmer medically.
     
  33. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This, right here is exactly why I think we're really going to regret Jake leaving. As much as many of us want to sit here today, and say good riddance, he took an extra million, he's not as good... blah blah blah... We're going to miss him. He's far better of a player than Martin was, while playing injured.

    Im not sure what people see in Martin. Clearly I'm not seeing that he's a fit for this league. Hopefully he comes out and proves me wrong this year. Either that, or we better be planning on drafting a tackle at 12.. which would be disappointing IMO. I get that it fills the need, but the need didn't have to be there in the first place. Whether its Jake... or Winston, or Vollmer, or Ireland's mother. I don't care who really. Fact is our OL took a big hit here, and we need to fill that gap now, along with a pass rusher, and get some CB's. Be interesting to see how this plays out, but I dont see Martin as part of the solution... on either side. Sure, thats basing it on his rookie year, and he should get better... the problem is I don't think he got better as the season went on... so.. it does make me worry a bit.
     
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  34. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Don't loop me in with that :lol:


    I've been saying it for 2 weeks now. As much as I really believe Jonathan Martin was our best draft pick last year, he is far from being ready to be a starting left tackle in the NFL.
    Couple that with a sophmore QB, who lost his feature back btw, and now has new guys he has to learn running routes.... Losing Jake Long is much worse than gaining any of the guys we did in FA. We are really going to see where Tannehill is at I guess....
     
  35. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Grimes, Vollmer, Winston, Abraham...hope to get at least one of them.

    About Long, there's no denying now they messed that pick up. We got two complete seasons out of a #1 pick who ends up on a different team at the end of his conract. Not a great way to use a #1 pick.
     
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  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I liked Jon Martin as a value pick and I still like his chances long term. Fact of the matter is though, he played poorly, and you need to let him earn what he gets. He hasn't earned anything.
     
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  37. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    All good points, but I think that there has to be some faith in Martin as a 2nd year player who most likely is adding needed strength, has good feet and now is past his rookie year. Cordy Glenn might not have been a perfect fit, but I would have preferred him if Buffalo didn't draft him one pick ahead.

    If Martin goes to LT i'd like Watson, if not maybe draft Bakhtiari or Jason Pugh. Jake Long wasn't the niftiest guy or prettiest, most agile LT, but he sure got the job done when healthy. I always remember seeing him on tv before the draft doing agility drills in shorts, and he could move for a big man, and was surprisingly v-shaped and athletic looking. Somewhat reminiscient of LAne Johnson to me, but thicker with more muscle. He'll never have Johnson's feet, but Johnson will never have Jake Long's power. I'm sorry to see him go, bottom line. When healthy he was the rock of that OL, and probably the spiritual leader as well. On track for the HOF after the 1st 3 years before the injuries kicked in and considered wither the best LT in football or 2nd best right behind Joe Thomas, bottom line. Heck of a player, and he will be missed.
     
  38. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    According to this Boston Globe article it was Vollmer's knee that led to his poor play at the end of last season.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...rgo-surgery/yOZ5eom6eI7ipEHgni4a9H/story.html
     
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  39. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe Miami will draft a left tackle, but probably not in the first round.
     
  40. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are rumors coming out of Indy that Bess is the wr Irsay has been discussing on twitter. Some of their local beat writers are speculating on that now, whereas yesterday national speculation was it would be Cruz.
     

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