1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What player do you take if...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fishhead, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    311
    312
    63
    Nov 8, 2017
    Agree with that, whichever they feel is the best fit, we will be 100% behind - Flores has earned some trust after this year. However, if they decide to roll this year, there is plenty of QB talent next year apparently - it's not just about Lawrence.
     
  2. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

    887
    891
    93
    Jan 2, 2016
    I am going to respond to each part of your response:

    Jeez, he does NOT have a history of injuries. He had 2 high ankle sprains (which are probably the most common injury in the NFL) for which he had ELECTIVE surgeries to quicken his recovery from said injuries and to limit the severity of future high ankle sprains. These are not an issue.

    Yes, the hip is a worry but we are not going to draft him high if any of the medical reports cast doubt on his future career. Also, even if he's not ready to go 100% at training camp, he will still be getting reps as he gets stronger as they can't hit the QB in practice any how, so he's hardly going to be sitting on the sideline for the entire year just reading a play book. By all accounts (as that's all we have at this moment), he will be ready to throw at his pro day, so that will give the scouts a good idea of his recovery and I doubt he won't have a battery of tests beforehand (probably the most any player has ever had), so if there's any doubt, he will drop.

    Here is where I think you are misreading the situation. You are working on the assumption that all teams will have the same medical grades. It will be a wide variety of teams with different opinions. Remember when our medical team said take Culpepper over Brees. I am no doctor, but the hip thing in sports scares me a lot. More often than not, this does not go in the right direction.

    Better evaluators than me have said that Herbert's accuracy is an issue but you then dismiss Tua's accuracy as a bad thing and that he's all dink & dunk, and in the next sentence say that he showed the best deep ball accuracy - which is it? Also, unless the offense is going to change to a hail mary/vertical only offense, his arm (although not as strong as Herbert's) is plenty strong enough.

    Herbert's accuracy is sort of an issue. He regularly makes more challenging throws as he pushes the ball down field. Sometimes he flat out misses.

    In one sentence, I said that he has the best deep ball accuracy because he does.
    I also said that he dinks and dunks a lot because he does.
    I implore you to go watch some Bama film. He makes a TON of throws that every other QB in the draft would make too. That is his bread and butter. I really think Bama uses the dink and dunk to draw defenses up than exploits them by taking a chance deep. Tua 100% can connect on those passes. He puts great touch on those passes.

    Also, if Fitz is coming back, there is no chance that he would be the starter in the 1st game anyhow, even before the hip injury and it's unlikely that Herbert would also be a day 1 starter - there is nothing that anybody has seen where that's a likely scenario. More QB's have excelled after sitting for half a/a whole season, otherwise you are just chucking them to the wolves unless the rest of the team around them is elite and they have shown elite traits (which Herbert has not yet per all reports).

    I agree with your sentiments on sitting a QB, but that is not the modern game. The game within the game is starting these young QBs ASAP so that you can use cap space on tools to get these guys help. Once their rookie deal is up, you will have to spend that money on them. The rookie window from outward appearances may look like win-now mode. That is just the reality of the salary cap.

    Herbert could well be a good/great QB and from what we have seen from reports, his ceiling could be RT - is that enough to take us where we want to be, as there's more to being a QB than size/frame and a strong arm. They & Burrow could all end up as busts, there's just no way of knowing at this time. However, if the best QB is available at 5, frame & arm strength is not the most important trait. You have said it yourself, you want the QB with leadership traits and elite character. I am worried for him that he won't be what the projections were pre-injury but all accounts so far are promising and you are right, Tua may never be the same but Tua at 90% is still better than Herbert at 100%.

    I know poo-pooing RT is all the rage around here, but let's clear one thing up. When all is said and done, RT will wind up being a ten year starter in the league. If you take a historical approach to that, it is VERY good. Most guys do not log that kind of career. Even look at his own draft class. Andrew Luck certainly had higher highs, but his body failed him too. RGIII has had the length but not the success. Again, his body failed him. As they say, "The best ability is availability." I really think a revisit of this class is warranted. Injuries could happen to anyone, but teams should protect themselves against injury. Tua's situation is scary. Herbert has a big frame that can take hits.
     
    Mafioso and resnor like this.
  3. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

    887
    891
    93
    Jan 2, 2016
    What about Tua makes him elite as a prospect?
     
    resnor and Unlucky 13 like this.
  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,787
    30,303
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I've been asking that for more than a year. People parrot that he has extreme football intelligence, but I don't really know how you could say that with certainty. He played on what was essentially a college all-star team, and yet when I watch him, he rarely looks special. He looks like the kind of first or second round quarterback prospect that I see almost every year.
     
    mlb1399, resnor, hitman8 and 4 others like this.
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,327
    3,684
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    This "he played on a great team" garbage just needs to die. Yes, he did. So did Lawrence. So did Burrow. So did Fields. Wow, good teams and good QBs often go together.

    As for why he is good prospect, just use Google, I'm not going to go paste scouting reports in here. He's been a largely consensus elite prospect for years and nothing he has done seems to warrant removing that label. If you hate the guy, so be it, but let's dispense with the notion he is somehow massively controversial and overrated. I am sure next year we will be hearing the same b.s. about Lawrence - it's just what often happens to elite players - they get broken down excessively and people look for reasons to dismiss.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I'm an Alabama hater so I didn't start evaluating him expecting to like him. If anything, I had a bias against him b/c of his team and Saban. But his footwork is arguably the best and most consistent I have ever seen. Many of the greatest evaluators I've known will tell you that footwork is what you look at to begin any QB evaluation. (If you read or watch any of the stuff with Walsh evaluating Montana from before he was drafted, that's most of what Walsh talks about).

    B/c of that great footwork Tua is consistently accurate. His accuracy rates over multiple seasons and multiple systems are historically great. And even though he had great WRs, they weren't big. They were smaller, faster guys. Those types of targets require more accuracy from your QB. You may get inflated TD numbers from that type of WR, but high accuracy rates is tougher. And Tua was accurate to all areas of the field. People who only watched this season, where he was in a west coast system criticize him for throwing so many slants, but anybody who watched his film from last year saw him in a deep throw offense. And BTW that was a change from the heavy RPO system he was in the year before.

    The ability to excel in multiple systems also supports his football intelligence. You see prospects like Rosen, who was supposed to be smart, but excuses were made b/c he'd been in multiple systems. Well here's a guy who put up historically great numbers despite that same handicap. He also is a great decision-maker. All QBs make poor decisions at times but Tua does so at a very low rate. There are also subtle things you see Tua do in terms of looking off defenders or throwing to different spots or with different arm angles that most novice evaluators wouldn't notice but are clear evidence of a QB who has an advanced understanding of football and his offense.

    Also b/c of the footwork (see how important that is?), he stays on balance and gets the ball out incredibly quickly. That's valuable in any system but particularly important in most of what Chan Gailey does.

    I would also cite his work ethic. Now you always hear that every prospect has a great work ethic, but I tend to discount that as lip service unless I see it translate to the field. Reality is that being a top prospect rarely happens without a great work ethic, but having a great work ethic compared to the greatest NFL players is another level so I need evidence before I look at the talk as more than lip service. The first obvious evidence is that he excelled in three different systems. Football IQ helps, but you don't do that without putting in the work and he clearly did.
    That honestly would be enough for me to believe that a prospect has a great work ethic, but I also recently saw a piece on the Elite 11. That's where you take the top 11 rated HS QBs and put them in a camp, coached by Trent Dilfer, and there's some sort of competition to sort out the #1 guy. Tua came into that as the #11 guy. At the beginning you see Dilfer ripping him for being nothing more than a good athlete with a strong arm. And telling him he'll never succeed unless he learns to pass from the pocket (primarily footwork and decision-making). In this competition there is some break during the camp. During that break, Tua apparently took to practicing his footwork on his own and when he came back ended up winning the competition. Dilfer even said that it was a performance he would put up there with Andrew Luck, which prior to that had been the best QB prospect Dilfer had ever seen.

    His leadership is another thing I would list as elite. We all saw how much of an impact Ryan Fitzpatrick's leadership had on our team this season. And by all accounts, Tua is one of those guys that is a natural leader. It's been cited repeatedly during his time at Alabama, but it was even mentioned in that Elite 11 video. One of the other coaches there kept talking about how Tua led his team and got the best out of everyone of his guys. Many people tend to discount leadership, but I don't expect the Dolphins to be among them.

    I also see him as very capable of making plays out of the scheme. He isn't a great runner, but he's certainly mobile. He moves well in the pocket and throws accurately on the run. I don't see this part of his game as elite, but it's certainly not a weakness. It's the same thing I would say about his arm strength. I don't see it as special, but I see it as above average for your typical NFL QB. I believe he is the best and most well rounded prospect since Luck. (I also had Kyler Murray in that range, but the balance was different as Murray had/has elite running potential). In the end I see his injury history as the only legitimate question mark. And if things are still looking good prior to the draft then I take that risk for a prospect of this caliber.
     
    Surfs Up 99, Finatik, resnor and 7 others like this.
  7. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Btw here is a scouting report on Tua from an evaluator whose opinion I respect:


    • Arm Accuracy - Some surreal ball placement in short spaces and vertically. Comfortable throwing to open shoulder and letting his receivers in and attack the football. Deliberate placement to protect receivers or set up RAC opportunities to all levels. He's a precision passer vs. tight man or zipping between zone defenders.

      Decision Making - He's had like 5 total brain farts in his entire career. He's comfortable reading full field and willing to trust reads to come across the field without hesitation. Highly intelligent passer who makes strong reads in real time. That said, would love to see him quicker to concede and move to check down.

      Progressions - Crisp. He understands the value his eyes hold and moves them accordingly to manipulate zone defenders. He's playing chess with his eyes, not checkers. Has been exposed to no shortage of reads and concepts, as boosted by addition of Steve Sarkisian to coaching staff for 2019 season.

      Anticipation - Will regularly pull the trigger as receivers hit the top of their stem. He's deadly accurate in these scenarios as well, feathering passes effortlessly into space for receivers to catch in stride. Feel for pressure at the LOS and work within the pocket to anticipate open area in the pocket yields clean throwing platforms.

      Poise - Has created some magic within the pocket and keeps eyes down field without bother. He'll ramp up aggressiveness as needed as game situations call for urgency and he'll keep swinging without fear. Has created some big play magic throughout the course of his storied career on the biggest of stages.

      Arm Strength - Does he have elite strength? No. Is his arm strength a problem? Definitely not. He's got plenty of juice from within the pocket and generates desirable heat on the ball when he gets down hill to throw on the run. Has ability to squeeze tight throws in tight windows with zip but more so because he's so accurate.

      Pocket Awareness - Pretty sure he's got a camera installed in the back of his helmet. Innate feel for rushers crashing in off the edge and shows the foot quickness and feel for where to slide — and when to slide — to break that first arriving defender's angle and offer chance to reset or otherwise flush the pocket and into space.

      Mechanics - Clean. Appreciate that he's able to drop the arm angle and throw around bodies as a shorter passer. He's got quick delivery and will do well to zip throws out under duress and allow maximum time for receivers to uncover. Has no troubles with throwing motion and delivery to throw in condensed space.

      Footwork - He does well to stay balanced when standing tall to survey from the pocket and like how he gets downhill when forced to roll out and throw while on the move. Will sit on his back foot vs. power rushes inside and fail to get on top of the ball, forcing him to miss high.

      Mobility - Not a killer on the ground and given his durability questions, there's going to be some hesitancy in getting him involved with run concepts, although 2017/2018 film featured some QB sweeps that were run with success. A fine athlete who can beat you if he breaks contain versus man coverage.

      ---

      Best Trait - Football IQ

      Worst Trait - Durability

      Best Film - South Carolina (2019)

      Worst Film - Clemson (2018)

      Red Flags - 2018/2019 high ankle sprains, 2019 dislocated hip

      Player Summary - Tua Tagovailoa's only question falls onto his durability after suffering multiple ankle injuries and a dislocated hip. His exposure and mastery of 2018 vertical offense and 2019 WCO concepts in Alabama offense provide easy projection to the pros — he's an elite passer with rare intangibles, short area quickness and accuracy. Tagovailoa has never met a stage that was too big, either. This is a face of a franchise player who, if healthy, will be an elite quarterback soon before long.

      Updated: 01/10/2020
     
    IdrA, Surfs Up 99, resnor and 9 others like this.
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    6,702
    8,837
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I don't know the draft field at a true analyst's level so I can only speculate, but for me the biggest thing in ANY DRAFT is value. For instance, we shouldn't have landed Tunsil or Minkah at the spots we did and that's what set up this season for better/worse...they were DEFINITELY the top players on the board though when they were taken and excellent overall value.

    So if one of your 5-6 names there are well above the next ten available players talent-wise, then I'd pick from that list and hold off on a QB (unless Tua/Burrow is there...then I'd take the QB since they're rated on that elite level as well). But if the Fins don't feel there's a huge talent gap then I think they should trade down for an extra 1st or 2nd rounder. In my mind every pick has to be value, value, value regardless of position.

    One other interesting tidbit, I read the other day that the Dolphins said they were nowhere finished with Rosen and he progressed a lot over the past year. So if they feel like he has a decent chance of being the man, then I hope we draft Jalen Hurts or another project QB that can learn in the system over the next couple of seasons. Tua would still make sense as well but again, it goes back to value overall...if you think Rosen is the man, then only take Tua if he falls to you. If you're not sure or doubtful, then maybe you move up to get him (or Burrow) so that's off your needs list. I only see us making that move if they're in love with one or the other though...that's the only way we move up.

    The other thing worth mentioning is that Cincinnati has moved back a little in their Burrow-love and said to be closely evaluating 4 total QB's...so there's a chance they actually take Tua #1 overall since he has several years of production. I'd personally love to see that because it throws off the entire draft for everyone...I just like the drama and I have a feeling that we'd jump to #2 in a hurry for Burrow. I'm really hoping our front office is preparing for that potential scenario though so they don't overpay in the moment.

    So here's my guesses-

    If we love Rosen, grab Odukah or Thomas

    If we really like Rosen, grab Tua is he falls or Herbert/Love with our middle 1st if they're there). Grab Hurts late 1st or in the 2nd if we miss on all three. Then get Odukah/Thomas with #5.

    If we're unsure on Rosen, move up for Burrow/Tua and possibly use Rosen as trade bait. If Cinci takes Tua #1 though, then consider jumping to #2 for Burrow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  9. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    311
    312
    63
    Nov 8, 2017
    You are possibly right re the medical reports but in terms of Brees and Culpepper, you can understand why the decision was made, as the shoulder was bad and could have been a worse idea than the knee. Hindsight has not been kind to the Fins medical staff that made that decision, especially as the operating specialist gave Brees a glowing endorsement. No idea if it's the same staff now though.

    Herbert's accuracy is the big issue, as it has been noted that a 3rd of his throws are screens, so his accuracy should be much higher than it is but even then, he doesn't put the ball in the best area, which is something that Tua does routinely.

    Understand re the cap hit but the majority of the more recent successful QB's sat for at least part of their 1st year - Mahomes, Lamar, Goff, Garropollo, Rodgers, Watson, Baker, Prescott, Lock. Also, if you get him in the 1st round, don't they get a 5th year option? As I said, there's no point chucking them in unless they can show something or they have a good solid team round them

    Not dissing RT but Herbert's ceiling is Ryan, the same issues are going to flare up ie pocket presence, not being able to put a team on his back. RT wasn't helped by the coaches as he was chucked in before he was really ready and then never had the team around him for him to succeed.

    Again, size doesn't always equate to robustness, as Luck is the prime example. However, with the rules as they are, QB's that are not deemed as being ideal size will have success. Like RT, RG3 was let down by his coaches, as he wrecked his knee when he probably shouldn't have played. Admittedly, he likely was overdrafted due to the panic buying on QB's.
     
  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    12,569
    5,215
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Oh. He was also MVP of the Senior Bowl.

    More like he folded like an Armani.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  11. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,827
    7,290
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Didn’t see the senior bowl so I can’t truly comment on his play, but I did see the Rose Bowl. Did he run for 3 touchdowns? Sure but his QUARTERBACK play was indeed pitiful! I watched this kid play and was wondering what was it everyone saw in him. No accuracy, no consistency just athletic ability to run when in trouble.

    In my book, that’s not NFL caliber “franchise” quarterback. Maybe he played better in the senior bowl but as I said I didn’t watch that game
     
  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,787
    30,303
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    Rafael, please help me out. Maybe we're using the term "footwork" differently, and if we are, then tell me what the right term is. But when I watch him play, or watch highlites, I see over and over and over that he sets his feet in ways that just look very wrong before he throws the ball. As in, consistently different from what I have always seen as being correct.

    He seems to underplant (if that's a word) on most of his throws, not taking a big enough stride in order to use his leg strength to help drive the ball. It looks as if he's just casually tossing the football around with friends, rather than making a mechanically clean and efficient motion.

    And along with that, his foot placement when he throws often looks sideways, or out of place. Obviously he's left handed, but its more than that. His hips seem far to wide open, again seeming to force him to use way too much upper body and arm strength, motion. It just looks so off to me.
     
  13. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    183
    227
    43
    Dec 31, 2018
    Costa Rica
    Durability is definitely the big concern on Tua. All the positives; pocket awareness, decision making, football IQ, work ethic, leadership, accuracy, DO NOT make the durability concern go away. By comparison, Pat White STILL HOLDS the NCAA all time record for rushing yards by a QB. Durability was not an issue at the college level. The NFL is an entirely different ballgame, so to speak.
     
  14. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

    2,713
    942
    113
    Oct 1, 2018
    Durability should be a concern only if a player is getting injured more frequently than normal, in ways that wouldn’t injure the average player.
     
  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,827
    7,290
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Even though there is some bias tone in some of his individual assessments, it does seem like an overall fair assessment. The only thing though that none of these writers can do however, is forecast how some of the quarterbacks will do at the NFL level. At the collegiate level, quarterbacks face 5-6 NFL caliber players on the defensive side of the ball. In the NFL, they face 11 NFL caliber players.

    This is one reason why I look at the history of quarterbacks selected high in the draft and I pointed out in anther thread not that long ago...HISTORICALLY....they don't do that well.
     
  16. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,327
    3,684
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    You can say this for literally any and every position though ...
     
  17. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

    6,784
    3,079
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    For me "durability" is more about whether a player can be injured and still play or if he is one of those I'm not 100% I can't play boys. Can you tape it up, rub a little dirt in it and get back in the fight.
    Tua was playing on an injured ankle when his hip got broke. That's durability and I really don't have any concerns there with Tua. Other stuff makes me nervous with him but not that. He's proven to be a warrior.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  18. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    If you ever get a chance to watch Bill Walsh analyzing a QB, he emphasizes how you want that throw to be soft and look effortless. In one I watched Walsh would praise Montana the most when he looked like he was "casually tossing the football around with friends". That's how you want most of the throws to look. Tua does sometimes get in a wider stance when he has to drive the ball (and that's where you see the above average velocity numbers), but if he's making good and on time decisions that should be more rare. I don't believe you want a QB that has to over-stride on most throws.

    Like I said, Tua has the best and most consistent footwork I've ever seen. You could use his footwork as a training film and I'm sure it will be. I love his balance and how he almost always has his feet below him. I'm sure that's a big part of why his accuracy is so high. I don't know what to tell you beyond that you might need to reassess your beliefs on what good footwork looks like.
     
  19. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    The rumors I heard was that they don't believe in Rosen at all. Getting him was considered a low risk gamble and O'Shea reportedly banged the table for him (obviously O'Shea is gone) and they always anticipated taking a QB early in this next draft anyways (short of Rosen being the next Marino). But they were reportedly surprised by how little he knew coming in and then that he never really got that much better in terms of his processing speed in the offense. They were also underwhelmed with his leadership especially compared to Fitzpatrick. I've heard him described as a guy who seems to hang around the periphery. I suspect that they will prioritize a QB at 5 or in a trade up and that it will be for one of the guys like Burrow or Tua who are consistently described as natural leaders, magnetic personalities, etc.
     
  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,787
    30,303
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I think that I'm going to look back on 2019 for decades and think of what might have been had things just gone slightly differently. So close.
     
  21. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,191
    1,905
    113
    Sep 12, 2015

    Honestly there are times Tua has terrible footwork on deep throws and tends to rotate his leg around incredibly wide.

    I'm not sure it's something he cant fix, but it's also something I can see him doing and getting his leg smashed if he cant make it more compact.

    It's something I've only really noticed on his deep balls so idk how big an issue it really is.
     
  22. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    7,782
    9,228
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Glad to hear that!

    One thing that would have soured me on Flores is if he thought Rosen had any potential. The rarity of a QB (Rosen) that can't even for one game perform at a statistically average level over the course of his first 16 games is so great (haven't found any other example since 1978) that I would have serious doubts about the competence of any coach that thought the guy wasn't an obvious bust.
     
    rafael likes this.
  23. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I know you love Rosen, but I don't believe his success was ever likely or close. I don't think it was just a poor situation. I think he has some fatal flaws that will take years, if ever, to correct.
     
    resnor likes this.
  24. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I haven't noticed that but his deep passing accuracy is often cited as being one of the best in college football. Particularly last season when their passing offense was so deep ball dependent.
     
  25. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,787
    30,303
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    Well, I'm also scared that the team is going to get attached to a QB that I don't like, and run an offense that I don't enjoy watching for some time. Worst of both worlds.
     
  26. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I'm more scared of them getting attached to a QB that isn't any good. I can learn to appreciate different kinds of good football, regardless of the scheme, but poor QB play or perpetual losing is much less tolerable.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,787
    30,303
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    I know that you and many others can. For me, I'm seething with jealousy watching so many other franchises run an offense that I like from the point that Marino retired to the present. We've gone an entire generation without.

    And I also understand that many don't care for style regardless, but I want a highly productive offense that I enjoy watching and have a belief that can be sustainable first, then worry about winning a lot of games second. Winning via defense with a lousy offense just does nothing for me at all.
     
  28. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    27,325
    31,191
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    We definitely have different priorities.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    28,787
    30,303
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    No doubt. But you're a football guy. I'm just a fan, and my attachment is purely emotional.
     
    resnor likes this.
  30. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    12,569
    5,215
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York

    Yes, he did run for 3 TDs and was voted the MVP of that game as well as the MVP of the Senior Bowl.

    Running for 3 TDs was part of his "QB play". That's what QBs sometimes have to do. He is not known as a run first, scrambling kind of QB. He is definitely more of passing QB, than a running QB going on athletic ability, as you say. However, he did what he had to do in order to get the win and that versatility, ability and will is what you should want from your QB.

    He is not an inaccurate QB. One aspect of his game, aside from the great physical attributes that he possesses, is that he is a QB that doesn't make a lot of mistakes. That is a very important trait when figuring how well a QB will translate to the pros. He's also a good kid and a very smart kid.

    "Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert took home one of the most prestigious overall college football honors on Tuesday night, known as the "Academic Heisman". The National Football Foundation awarded Justin Herbert with the 2019 William V. Campbell Trophy.
    According to the award committee, the Campbell Trophy is awarded to a "senior or graduate student in their final year of playing eligibility, have a GPA of at least 3.2 on a 4.0 scale, have outstanding football ability as a first-team player or significant contributor and have demonstrated strong leadership and citizenship.
    Herbert led the other eleven finalists in overall GPA with a 4.01 and will be finishing up his Science degree this term".
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
    Puka-head likes this.
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    6,702
    8,837
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Well, the good news is that come draft day, everything will be perfectly clear on where the front office stands on Rosen. If we move up, then we know he's our backup at best for the next 3-5 seasons. Or if we don't get a QB in the first round, it's a pretty good indicator that they like what they see in Rosen. So I think the "bluff" only lasts a few more months and then we'll all know what they're thinking.

    It is honestly the right strategy though and I'm glad that they've stated we have no interest in a QB in the 1st round. I mean, everyone knows it's BS, but that doesn't make the strategy any less effective if someone else wants Tua and he's ours to pick at #5. Now's the time to have that poker face and it can only help us come draft day.
     
  32. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    1,618
    806
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    This would be the perfect draft.
     

    Attached Files:

  33. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

    6,784
    3,079
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    The perfect draft is like the perfect woman. It's a legend. The more you drink though, the closer to perfect she gets. Depending on how long it's been since you had a good...draft pick, she gets more and more beautiful. Then you see some of the REALLY perfect girls getting picked up by the guy who got their before you and suddenly she's the most perfect woman ever. Madly in love and off to make beautiful music together you go.

    And after the second season or sometimes the first even you start to notice she snores, and leaves her girly stuff all over the bathroom. She never listens any more and you haven't gotten any in weeks.

    There is this new girl at the office that sure looks perfect. I wonder if she can cook???
     
    danmarino, resnor and Sceeto like this.
  34. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,327
    3,684
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Etienne isn't even coming out.
     
  35. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    1,618
    806
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Had not heard. In that case you could take Jonathan Taylor or Deandre Swift with that spot.
     
  36. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,327
    3,684
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    I have a hard time seeing them last that long (or Dobbins for that matter). I also doubt that safety lasts that long, most mocks have him in the first as a 1b to Delpit. Obviously things change, but that seems overly optimistic.

    I do think that's ultimately a decent spot to look at Josh Jones, though I wonder if Grier would take a tackle in round 1 after trading away a round 1 tackle.
     
  37. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

    101
    73
    28
    Sep 29, 2016
    After the Senior Bowl, Anae will probably not be around in the fourth round. Would be great value with him and Duvernay in that round if that scenario played out.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  38. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

    1,306
    1,861
    113
    Dec 13, 2007
    The Titans (and Browns) are model examples of why you DON'T take a QB just because you need one. You take one when you think he is the right player and you'd better be right. History says that you are more likely to be wrong. I would love to know how many of the misses were taken by teams that weren't really sure.
     
    Cashvillesent likes this.
  39. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    6,982
    2,521
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Lakeland, FL
    I disagree. You keep taking QBs until you get the right one. The ownership has to be willing to move on and not stick with a mediocre QB.
     
    KeyFin, The Guy and texanphinatic like this.
  40. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

    1,950
    1,784
    113
    May 5, 2016
    All I can say is I hope we can get Tua at #5. I would trade up for him, but I don't like the idea of getting fleeced by the Lions. If it's reasonable, then I say let's do it. With Fitzpatrick, I have supported taking Love at #5 if we can't get Tua, but I think Tua is the better choice, and we need to do what we can to land him in Miami.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020

Share This Page