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What was SO wrong about our 2009 Offensive Line?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Section126, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Explain this to me.

    The unit in 2009 was good. BETTER than good. A top 5 ranking by objective observers.

    The run game was ranked 4th in the NFL while we lost our Pro Bowl RB.

    Henne was well protected with a 2 time PBer in Long protecting the blind side.

    Vernon Carey had his best season as a Dolphin.

    Jake Grove was on his way to a Pro Bowl appearance when he got hurt.

    Since last season, they (Front Office):

    . Are Hell bent at replacing Grove.

    . Canned BOTH starting Guards.

    . Went out and completely changed out all the depth.

    . Drafted a Guard.

    . Signed another in FA.

    The result? a very uneven to poor performance throughout preseason. SO FAR.

    if this UNIT sucks this year (IF)....then this Chinese Fire Drill of an offseason on the O-Line should be enough to really start questioning the competence of this regime.
     
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  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think this FO and Sparano know what they're doing. No reason to worry about that unit.
     
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  3. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    There motto on that unit seems to be:

    "if it is not broke....break it, so you can fix it again."
     
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  4. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Ive often wondered that myself. Maybe Sparano is overly obsessed with it. Only conclusion I can think of.
     
  5. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    No idea what they're up to here.

    If they got suddenly convinced that Smiley would be one injury after another, I can see replacing the left guard.

    Dumping Donald Thomas was a shock. Usually you don't see a guy do that well, and then steadily decline unless there were performance enhancers involved. Total speculation on my part. But otherwise you sort of expect a cheap 6th rounder with starting talent should stick.

    They have a knack for buying expensive free agents and then deciding he's a little too injury prone, can't pull, doesn't reach the second level, etc. and dump them after two seasons. They did it with Smiley, they've been trying like heck with Grove. It's shaping up to be a very worrisome tendency.
     
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  6. jpep13

    jpep13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We also Traded Justin Smiley to the Jaguars. And I guess Corey Proctor will take his place or richie Incognito?
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They're just looking to improve over a LG and C who were injury prone and a RG that couldn't pass block at all. Let this unit play at least 4 games before we start criticizing them.
     
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  8. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    I think another thing is, with Tony being an offensive line specialist, the line really shouldn't be in this disarray in year 3. The secondary, ok, but not the offensive line.

    If you would have said, back in early 2008, that in three years we would be investing the #1 overall pick, spending a 3rd (Jerry), 4th (Murphy), two 6ths (Donald Thomas and Andrew Gardner), signing two expensive interior lineman (Smiley & Grove), and adding another reasonably priced one (Incognito).. basically creating an obscenely priced line.

    And what they wanted all along were 5 enormous offensive linemen who could do everything (road graders, nimble pass blockers, pull to the outside, etc.), and never ever ever get injured. Good luck finding that.

    They were right about Jake Long, and that was a franchise type decision. BUT, after all that, would you have believed the line would still be this unsettled? I wouldn't have believed it. No reasonable person would.

    Because If an offensive line minded coach and trench-preaching front office can't get it together after three years of virtually unlimited resources.. well, I hate to say it. But they probably won't get much of anything together in another three years.
     
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  9. jpep13

    jpep13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If the front office is supposed to build the trenches first they failed. Teams that win on a consistent basis are they ones that have there o-line set in place.
    Still tinkering and even when the season starts we have a rotation. this is messed up.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sec, the only conclusion is that he found 3 better players..we owe him that because of what hes done with that unit up until this point, which is pretty damn good like you said.

    basically your making your conclusions on a meaningless preseason..
     
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  11. High Definition

    High Definition No Smoke / No Drink 2011+

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    Pretty much the conclusion I've drawn.
     
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  12. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Berger has not proven himself to be better than Grove, Jerry is a rookie, and Incognito has never played LG before.

    New does not mean better.
     
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  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We have to give the new a chance to be better. It's all ifs right now. Being the offensive line guru Tony is, we have to trust his judgement.
     
  14. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    LOL but they really don't as Section just proved why.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Section really didn't prove anything.
     
  16. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    It's quite a simple concept actually. Justin Smiley's shoulder is done. Donald Thomas wasn't a very good player. Why some fans thought we had the next Larry Little on our hands after playing one quarter vs. the Jets is beyond me. He was replaced by Garner, he's on IR.

    John Jerry, outside of the Falcons game, has been terrific in TC/Preseason. Shouldn't really come as a surprise though, you could tell he's going to be a good pro on tape. Definitely an upgrade. Incognito has always been very talented, he's also always been a headcase. The guy's looked good so far, not seeing a downgrade. Grove was one of the best Centers in the league last year before he got hurt, Berger replaced him and we didn't miss a beat. Are we really complaining about having two quality centers?

    Why shouldn't they have completely changed out the depth? Garner and whoever isn't starting between Grove and Berger, are quality depth, that's about it. Gardener and Murtha blow, to say the least. McQuistan is a guy they're familiar with, and I certainly can't blame them for trading for him, being how awful Murtha and Gardener have been. Thomas, I've already mentioned before. Cory Procter isn't a bad guy to have as a 3rd string C/G. Sucks Garner is on IR, but it is what it is. Look at the line, almost every player on our line can play multiple positions, which makes us even better from a depth standpoint.

    And that guard we drafted has been our 2nd best lineman throughout TC/Preseason. That guard we picked up in FA is talented and has looked good throughout TC/Preseason also.

    No doubt about it in my mind we've improved our line. Sucks that Garner is out though.
     
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  17. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Er, really? Yea, he really proved something without a single meaningful game being played :lol:
     
  18. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    It most certainly doesn't mean worse either.
     
  19. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    I take it neither of you saw how abysmal the Offensive line looked in preseason?
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, no I didn't. At times, I saw it dominate, and other times I saw the lack of communication and continuity. Give it time to gel.
     
  21. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    When did Sparano become an OL guru? He coached a good unit in Dallas, sure, but he also coached TEs under Coughlin in Jacksonville, and look at our TE situation.

    Our OL coach is Dave DeGuglielmo, not Tony Sparano. Do we trust DeGuglielmo?
     
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  22. Da-PhinZ

    Da-PhinZ New Member

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    I understand being concerned fans but you have not seen a single game played yet:huh1:. You can speculate over the preseason, but thats only going to raise your Blood Pressure over meaningless games. Lately everyone has become debby downers, in desperate need of prozac. Just me a favor and wait till post buffalo to make a decision on the line. :up:
     
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  23. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    That's your problem right there, preseason. Dolphins fans are the only fanbase who cries like *****es about the preseason this much. And no, I didn't see an abysmal starting line in the preseason. I seen a rather bad line in the Falcons game, and a pretty good showing by the starters the first 2 games.
     
  24. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dave is our line coach, but I guarantee you Sparano, Ireland and Parcells have a voice in the making of our offensive line. Given the job they've done so far, I'm going to trust their judgement.
     
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  25. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    So I guess you assume the Dolphins Offensive line is going to play FANTASTIC after playing like **** for the preseason? I understand the whole "preseason" bull**** but lets not forget Preseason is about evaluating talent and seeing the depth you have and the Depth on the Line is AWFUL.
     
  26. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Tell me about it, came to this site to get a break from all the crybabies on Finheaven. Looks like I was mistaken about this site being more levelheaded... If there's one thing I learned about Dolphins fans this preseason, it's that this fanbase is second to Sixers fans on the crybaby meter. Must be what happens when you're great for so long, and you feel entitled to having a great season every single year, just to have your team go into a downslide. Only explanation I can think of.
     
  27. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Considering the starting line hasn't in fact played like **** in the preseason as you describe it, I will assume that. I have no doubt in my mind that Jerry will be better than Smiley, even though Smiley was pretty good when healthy. Granted I've probably seen more John Jerry than you have. I also have no doubt in my mind that Incognito is better than Donald Thomas, who isn't a good player. If Incognito can refrain himself from stupid penalties that is. As for Berger and Grove. As good as Grove was last year when healthy, we never missed a beat with Berger replacing him.

    I will give you that depth is a problem. Losing Garner was a big loss. Lucky for us just about every player on our line can play multiple positions. Also luckily for us, teams don't do many substitutions on the Offensive Line in games, so let's hope for no injuries.
     
  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Donald Thomas was always a weak link. Smiley got shot by a sniper in the arm and now can't block, and Grove I think has a clause in his contract that hes not allowed to play a full season.

    Guess we needed some more competition! :hi5:
     
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  29. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I'm pretty sure our 1st string line didn't look all that great last preseason either.
     
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  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    They are always looking to replace expensive players with younger cheaper ones. That first year the FAs werent so much for the long term as they were for the short term fix. I like Grove but he isnt really a pro bowl caliber center. he's good but not that good. Smiley was a walking injury. Thomas just never progressed after a good rookie year. The middle of the line has added one long term solution in John Jerry. We have two more to go. Personally, I would like to do things a bit more piecemeal than the approach they take but I dont fault them for that either. I think our line will be fine this year and as to them looking bad in preseason every offensive line looks bad in the preseason
     
  31. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Seems like injuries and performance issues is something that Sporano cannot tolerate... Hence Smiley released and Grove on the bench...

    Sporano's baby is the OL and they take time to gel once they are together... so we will see as the season progresses...
     
  32. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    We're not really sure Grove is on the bench yet.

    Coach said not to look too much into who started game 4 at C.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he built you a line that was top 5 last year..what did he do to deserve to be questioned, maybe he believes the 3 players are overall better players and will be better for this team in the long run..

    I dont think this arguement can have any seriousness to it until you seem them fail in the regular season.
     
  34. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    I think alot of us forget what our O-line actually looked like last year. Yes we had the 4th best running game but you said it the best yourself. We have Long who will be there for sure, and carey who had his best season. But remember last year how much we got injured on the line? Our Sunday line seemed like a rotation of old hotdogs at a 7/11. I remember a 3rd center coming in and playing, that scared the hell out of me. I think what we r trying to do is get so solid experience we can trust. I know we havent looked great on the line this off-season but remember what the interior of our line looked like last year.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    BK, this is not us be homers..this is us saying that calling out the coach for ripping up 3/5ths of the oline, before they play a real game, is knee jerk reaction considering his track record for our team..

    The most sensible take is that he feels, {the man who put together an oline that was top 5 last year}, that he identified 3 better players...he didn't stay neutral on the players he had even though he had full access to them, this wasn't like he lost free agents and had to regroup, he chose these three, over last year's three....

    And the only logical fan perspective is to give him some time to see if he was right or wrong...and thats the point, You might be right, and he might be wrong, but your projecting that without seeing the evidence. so it makes no sense to me.
     
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  36. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    This... after last year and the nightmare we had with the interior guys getting hurt and rotating around... didn't Garner play three different positions in one game? Prior to Garner playing well in that emergency role, he was just another guy. Now that he's hurt, panic has seemingly set in with some of us. Lets try to keep some faith with our coaches that they know what they are doing.
     
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  37. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I totally agree with the premise of the original Post. Last years line was very good. I still have the data I broke down from PFF last year. So here it is for a point of reference.

    [TABLE="head;width=80%"]RNK|Team|Tackle 1|Tackle 2|Guard 1|Guard 2|Center|TOTAL|AVG
    1|NYJ|10.7|13.6|10.4|-11|28|51.7|10.34
    2|MIA|12.1|21.1|4.2|-5.3|17.9|50|10
    3|NO|-21.9|11.5|29.4|20|7|46|9.2
    4|NE|-2.4|17.7|24.5|1.5|1.5|42.8|8.56
    5|NYG|-16.4|10.6|21.3|2.7|18.5|36.7|7.34
    6|BLT|0.7|10.1|9.2|-0.1|15.9|35.8|7.16
    7|PHI|1.8|5.7|7.7|-4.4|16.1|26.9|5.38
    8|CLV|-2.4|35.2|6.5|-29.2|16.3|26.4|5.28
    9|DAL|-7.8|2.7|11.7|6.7|10.9|24.2|4.84
    10|CIN|-4.5|8|18.4|-2.8|-1.5|17.6|3.52[/TABLE]

    I compiled those numbers last season in response to this blog by Armando Salguero. I went as far as to ask Tim Graham what he thought about our line and he seemed to agree that we were top 5.

    Sure Grove missed a couple games but in the time he played he was the second highest rated center in the NFL. I can understand the replacing of Smiley as his shoulder problems seem to be chronic. A complete over hall of a top 5 line has me scratching my head and hoping for the best.

     
  38. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Wonderful response and right on the money, very good, Thanks
     
  39. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    My biggest concerns?

    The Jake Grove replacement project.

    The guy was obviously headed to the pro bowl when he got hurt last year. I had not seen a Dolphin center play that well since #57.

    Donald Thomas Cut.

    You mean to tell me that a guy that was a starter on a top 5 NFL offensive line who also happens to be making about $7 an hour, CANNOT stick for depth? AHH..I will go ahead and call BS on that..sight unseen. he can't backup at RG? LG? Really? I don't believe you.

    The Dallas Cowboy reclamation project.

    We seem determined to take every Cowboy castoff, now..Let's hope the Cowboys dump Gurode, Colombo, Davis, or somebody that is actually....good.

    The draft pick shuffle.

    Yes. they hit on Anthony Munoz Jr. I am ecstatic about that. John Jerry? we shall see, but it looks good so far. maybe. But they sure like to invest picks on the line. nothing wrong with that, except that they have only a no brainer (long) and a potential performer (Jerry) to show for it.
     
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  40. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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