What’s The Ideal Receiver For The Miami Dolphins?

For our WCO, the ideal WRs IMO would be:
1st round: Michael Floyd
2nd round: Mohamed Sanu
3rd round: Marvin Jones
4th round: Marvin McNutt

"KingMotion wrote:

I can see us going 4-wide on the field, but in the draft? :tongue2:

I think they're all good options. I don't see us going WR in the first round though. I think Sherman could very well rattle the chains for Tannehill who could be had in a trade down if Cleveland doesn't take him at 4. Whatever is gained in that theoretical trade (possibly a second rounder) could be packaged with either our original, or Bears gained third rounder to trade back into the first round which would be the only way I could see us getting a WR then. I doubt though that Floyd or Wright would be available unless we get into the early twenties or late teens.

I don't want us to take all 4, but any 2 of the 4 would be a very solid decision IMO.

I'm not as high on Floyd for us as some are right now. First, I don't see the huge WR as a need. The WCO tends to use that 6'2" or so WR to run that slant, but it doesn't need the super-sized WRs. It can actually be a liability if the size is at the expense of quickness or route running technique. I feel Floyd can be a bit sloppy in his route running and doesn't show elite quickness getting separation. Second, I worry about the possible alcoholism or addictive personality. IMO many of the top prospects who are busts, are busts b/c of their character issues. They may or may not be getting in legal trouble, but battling their demons seems to sometimes get in the way of learning their craft. I see that as a significant risk.

I do like Sanu, Jones and McNutt. I also like Devon Wylie even though he doesn't fit the WCO ideal. I see him as potentially better than Welker.

I wouldn't give up on Roberto Wallace yet. Wasn't he coming along pretty good when he spelled BM?

I think my favorite WRs that would fit our system are Kendall Wright, Stephen Hill (although his route running scares me), Rueben Randle, Chris Givens, Ryan Broyles, Marvin McNutt, Marvin Jones and Muhammad Sanu. If we get any two of those WRs I will be pretty satisfied. My favorite 2 are Marvin Jones and Chris Givens though.

My favorite is Devon Wylie.

You look at the history of the guys Green Bay drafted...

Carl Ford, DeAndrew Rubin, Craig Bragg, Terrence Murphy, Cory Rodgers, Greg Jennings, David Clowney, James Jones, Brett Swain, Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb

It's actually a pretty diverse group.

David Clowney is sort of your smaller (relatively speaking, not at all a midget), perimeter speed guy. He was 6002 and 188 lbs, ran a 4.36 at the Combine (fastest stopwatch). He was your track star type, fast and explosive but thin and not physical. Sort of a Clyde Gates.

Terrence Murphy, another of your more classic triangle numbers guys at 6007 and 202 lbs, 4.39 speed...maybe a little straight line-ish, not a big RAC guy.

I don't really remember DeAndrew Rubin as I wasn't following USF at that time. He was 5114 and 190 lbs, with 4.40 type speed.

Craig Bragg was more of a 6005 and 196 lbs quickness guy that could be physical and shield the ball with his body, lacked top gear (4.48) or great physicality.

If you look at Greg Jennings, he was more along the lines of these type of guys. He was 5111 and 197 lbs, ran a 4.42 at the Combine. Natural receiver, fast and loose hips, not a very strong guy at all, not that physical, potential to be a route runner. He added return skills to this package, which was a plus.

Cory Rodgers is interesting in that he's one of the ones that breaks away from the mold. The size is right in line at 5117 and 188 lbs, but from a speed standpoint he's only a 4.58 guy at the Combine. But he was clearly a pure RAC/return type player that could get the ball in his hands in college a bunch of different ways, not a purely natural receiver.

Randall Cobb clearly fits into this mold, though obviously a faster, more premium player. He was 5102 and 191 lbs, ran a 4.46 at the Combine. Jack of all trades type of guy that could take snaps a bunch of different ways and make plays all over with the ball in his hands. Again, not necessarily a natural receiver (yet).

Then you have some more diversification in Brett Swain, who again possessed that same size 6001 and 200 lbs, but was always more of a low 4.6 guy. Not a good RAC player, more of a possession guy.

James Jones is when you started to see more of a Mohamed Sanu type. At 6006 and 207 lbs, he was a beast with the ball in his hands, very physical, very strong, fairly explosive. Did 22 bench reps. Clearly lacks the top gear, more of a 4.55 guy, but clear potential for some RAC.

And then of course there's Jordy Nelson, who is the first and only guy that really breaks the physical dimensions mold at 6025 and 217 lbs. He ran a 4.51 at the Combine. Not an overly physical guy, route runner with very fluid movement and ball skills, can break tackles after the catch. Natural receiver type.

You look at Miami's cast in the light of those guys and I think you see that in Davone Bess the Dolphins have one RAC/return guy that fits into that Cobb/Rodgers mold, but is he explosive enough to be in the team's long term plans?

I think that when Joe Philbin looks at Brian Hartline, he sees Jordy Nelson, and it's not surprising to me at all that the Dolphins have begun contract negotiations with him to keep him here a while longer.

Clyde Gates fits some of what they've looked for in the past up in Green Bay...but if he doesn't start to 'get it' from a route running standpoint, he will be discarded.

Looking at this year's class of receivers, I think Justin Blackmon clearly fits what Philbin will be looking for in a number of ways. Kendall Wright fits. Chris Givens fits. Mohamed Sanu fits. A.J. Jenkins fits. Ryan Broyles fits. Joe Adams and T.Y. Hilton fit. Devier Posey fits. Danny Coale fits. Chris Owusu fits. Devon Wylie may fit.

Guys like Marvin Jones, Nick Toon and Marvin McNutt fit in a certain way, the way a Jordy Nelson fit, but it depends how they feel about Hartline. I for one take notice when they open up negotiations with Hartline to keep him, because I know that Philbin's input is a big part of that. I think the offense looks for some diversification, and so I'm not sure they'd look for a Nick Toon, Marvin McNutt or Marvin Jones. They may. Never know. I'd certainly like them too as I really like all of those guys.

But given the contract extension in the works with Hartline and the relative weakness/questions about whether Gates and Bess have what it takes to man their roles longer term, you may see them steer in the Draft toward guys that can hurt defenses vertically on the perimeter (don't underestimate A.J. Jenkins especially given Ireland's relationship with Ron Zook which factored in our drafting Vontae), or guys that can be jack-of-all-trades types with ball in hand, slot/return types. Wylie would make me immensely happy, there.

I think Greg Childs fits in the Jordy Nelson mold. Arkansas used Childs in a similar way to how GB uses Nelson from what I've seen.

Both are similar sized, quick off the line and out of breaks, and create a nice target. Both are deceptively fast and can pick up speed vertically. They're both, physical, tough YAC guys who can attack the ball downfield or take that quick pass and turn it into 8-10 yards, and both can have the lateral speed to take a slat and split the defense for a big gain.

If we draft Tannehill, Childs would be an ideal target for him considering his size, catch radius, good hands, doesn't let many throws get into his body, and ability to instill confidence in his QB..... and he'd be an upgrade over the Tannehill-Fuller connection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qMqkRqH3nU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fQUC7N4Wvk

"rafael wrote:

I'm not as high on Floyd for us as some are right now. First, I don't see the huge WR as a need. The WCO tends to use that 6'2" or so WR to run that slant, but it doesn't need the super-sized WRs. It can actually be a liability if the size is at the expense of quickness or route running technique. I feel Floyd can be a bit sloppy in his route running and doesn't show elite quickness getting separation. Second, I worry about the possible alcoholism or addictive personality. IMO many of the top prospects who are busts, are busts b/c of their character issues. They may or may not be getting in legal trouble, but battling their demons seems to sometimes get in the way of learning their craft. I see that as a significant risk.

I do like Sanu, Jones and McNutt. I also like Devon Wylie even though he doesn't fit the WCO ideal. I see him as potentially better than Welker.

I couldn't respectfully disagree more. I do see WR as a huge need, since we do not have a proven #1, he's 6'3 he IS quick with great route running skills. He has trouble getting separation because he is mainly double teamed. Fantastic hands. He has shown breakaway speed in some occasions. He is best used in short to intermediate routes where he can create YAC. IMO I like him more then Blackmon. Yes he had trouble in the past with alcohol but honestly, when you went to college at 18 did you drink? He got caught. He also has been regarded as turning that page in maturity. Honestly I think he is an amazing choice at 8 and would be thrilled to have him as a dolphin

Also, I watch how many big plays Green Bay had from designed rollouts. IMO there's no way that Philbin looks at Tannehill and doesn't get excited about that possibility being recreated in Miami.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

Also, I watch how many big plays Green Bay had from designed rollouts. IMO there's no way that Philbin looks at Tannehill and doesn't get excited about that possibility being recreated in Miami.

Im warming up to the idea myself. This may have neen the plan from day one.

"Jcouch1021 wrote:

I couldn't respectfully disagree more. I do see WR as a huge need, since we do not have a proven #1, he's 6'3 he IS quick with great route running skills. He has trouble getting separation because he is mainly double teamed. Fantastic hands. He has shown breakaway speed in some occasions. He is best used in short to intermediate routes where he can create YAC. IMO I like him more then Blackmon. Yes he had trouble in the past with alcohol but honestly, when you went to college at 18 did you drink? He got caught. He also has been regarded as turning that page in maturity. Honestly I think he is an amazing choice at 8 and would be thrilled to have him as a dolphin

I think you're minimizing his alcohol issues quite a bit. This was not a he got caught drinking in college once thing. He was cited twice (08 and 09) and arrested for drunk driving (twice the legal limit in 11).

As for his skills, I have him behind Blackmon. Blackmon was also double teamed and did a much better job of getting separation. He has been productive, but I don't see him as likely to ever be an elite guy and that is before considering the risk his potential alcoholism represents. That ability to get separation and good route running seem to be among Philbin's focuses. And you keep saying we need a #1 WR, but that is specifically what Philbin is saying we don't need. I just don't see him as a good fit for what Philbin wants or a likely choice for us at #8.

If you look at receiver types within four tracks, and this is not just for Joe Philbin's offense but for any offense, it could help:

1. You have your vertical perimeter guy, deep threat that presents a speed mismatch
2. You have your crisp route runner, natural pass catcher that may lack deep speed
3. You have your RAC/return guy, guy whose hands you want on the ball, elusive
4. You have your beast, very strong, explosive guy that presents physicality mismatches

Most receivers are some kind of mix and match of these qualities, but it could be the view of the people up in Green Bay (and elsewhere in the league) that your receivers should embody one of these types of player. You can be a jack of all trades but you can't be a master of none. That's sort of Jim Harbaugh's view on the tight end position, anyway.

In Miami, I think they view Brian Hartline as their embodiment of the 2nd trait. I don't think it's a coincidence or some insignificant nothing event that they've begun negotiations with him on a new contract a year early.

But what about the other traits?

Miami has no player that is really strong and physical, explosive. They don't have the physicality traits you see out of James Jones and Jordy Nelson, either from a RAC standpoint, breaking tackles and making things happen that way, or in terms of being physical at the top of the catch. You would think they'd look to inject some of this via the Draft.

Is Davone Bess really the kind of player in whose hands they want to get the ball on shorter RAC plays, because he's elusive, electric and makes things happen? Is it any coincidence that Philbin has already laid out that Reggie Bush will be split out to the slot more and used in this manner? I would think they're going to try and look for this in the Draft, because they don't have it in the receivers unit, and have to borrow Reggie Bush from the tailback unit in order to inject some of it.

And what about the perimeter player that can be a speed mismatch and blow the top off a defense? Do we really have one of those? That's what Clyde Gates is supposed to be, but he was really bad as a rookie. How much can you count on the 4th rounder? Jeff Ireland will be a strong lobby on Gates' behalf, but you could see whoever they draft being a guy that has this kind of trait in him, as a hedge on Gates.

You don't want one-dimensional players. You like guys that can fill multiple roles. But it's possible that the way a guy like Philbin thinks of it, you have to be sure they fill at least one of the roles.

Really the only historical constraint we've seen that would toss out any of the receivers in this Draft would be the size constraint. It's a fact that with the exception of Jordy Nelson, all the players up in Green Bay seemed to be about 5'11" to 6'1" and 188 to 207 lbs. But then, for one thing, you don't know how much of that is purely Ted Thompson, and for another, there IS that one little exception Pro Bowler Jordy Nelson, who is rightly going to be considered a model in many ways for what Philbin wants in a receiver.

The history probably isn't going to lead you to the 2 or 3 players they're most likely to add. The history just gives you a little bit of a lens on how to view all these guys, and if Joe Philbin is the ketchup-mustard-mayonnaise guy that I think, it may help you get a more accurate view of the team's needs, which could help you get a view of what they'll steer toward.

Like I said, the Dolphins currently lack a physical beast (traded him away), they lack a proven deep route runner, and they really lack that explosive/elusive guy in whose hands you want to get the ball to make things happen after the catch. So they have some work to do.

What they have in Davone Bess and Brian Hartline are precise route runners that are natural pass catchers. So you have to wonder if they'll steer away from that type in the Draft. They will of course love that a guy can run routes and be precise, but they may lack forgiveness for players that do not notch many of the other boxes and are JUST precise route runners/natural pass catchers. It won't be enough. Does that mean guys like Nick Toon, Marvin Jones, Juron Criner, Rishard Matthews and Brian Quick are a little less likely to be drafted? It could. Some other guys that fit this mold for me include guys like Danny Coale and Dale Moss.

I would say that Mohamed Sanu and Marvin McNutt really embody some of the characteristics you're looking for in players that exhibit a high degree of physicality. Some would say Greg Childs embodies that as well (not me, but to each his own). For that matter, some of the above players may be viewed through this lens, though I personally wouldn't make the case for it. I think Sanu and McNutt are the good examples, the most likely. They're both very physical at the top of the catch, and very physical after the catch, James Jones types of players. I think of the two, McNutt in the later rounds might present more value, especially given O'Keefe's familiarity with him, which may be a rare opportunity to exploit.

The interesting category for me is that elusive, explosive, run after catch, return type player.

Of course one of my very favorite players Devon Wylie fits right into this mold, and so I'm hoping he ends up Drafted. For me, Wylie doesn't just fit that one type of player. He's also fast enough to blow the top off a defense, and has enough clarity on the ball in the air to adjust on it and actually catch the thing. The combination of quick feet and eyes for the ball make him a pretty quarterback friendly player, too. But the number one thing he embodies, in my opinion, is that punt return type of guy in whose hands you want to get the ball and let him make plays. How much of the size history at Green Bay was Ted Thompson, and how much would a Joe Philbin agree with it? That will be key, because Devon only notches 5'9" in height. The shortest guy Green Bay drafted was Cobb who was a full inch taller than Devon.

But there are other guys like this. Joe Adams is definitely this type of player. Always a tremendous return man, works well from the slot because he's fast and has really good feet. He dominated during the Senior Bowl. T.Y. Hilton is this kind of player. Combination of quick and fast, shows some ability to break tackles after the catch, at Florida International all they wanted to do was just get the ball in his hands any way they could. He had 66 rush attempts, 221 catches, 103 kickoff returns and 49 punt returns. This is definitely a Randall Cobb type of player.

Three guys that maybe aren't so obvious in this type of mold are Keshawn Martin, Marquis Maze and Eric Page. Martin was yet another guy in whose hands Michigan State just wanted to get the ball, and watching him I can tell why. He's a play maker after the catch. He accelerates quickly and is elusive, and I think he showed that by running solidly into the 4.4's at the Combine (not sure what scouts had on their stopwatches, I think in the low 4.4's). He also had a 39.5 inch vertical, put up respectable agility drills. He fits perfectly in the Green Bay size constraints at 5114 and 188 lbs. Maze, on the other hand, does not fit the size constraints at 5077 and 186 lbs. But man, this might be the best return guy in the Draft. Fearless, extremely elusive, quick feet, short strides, whenever I see him make a catch he always produces more yards than I thought he had a right to just by virtue of his quickness and ability to make people miss.

Eric Page is a guy you probably don't hear about much because he played for the Toledo Rockets and then came out and tested poorly at the Combine with a 4.60 "official" 40 time, only a 30 inch vertical and 9'4" broad jump. But that 3.98 second shuttle drill he did at the Combine shows you what kind of player he is. He had 112 catches for 1123 yards and 10 TDs at Toldeo this year, finishing off a career that saw him catching nearly 300 balls for almost 3400 yards and 25 TDs, in addition to throwing 4 TDs, running for another TD, returning 3 kickoff TDs, and returning 1 punt TD. He averaged 26.7 yards per kick return. The term "the next Wes Welker" is the most overused in evaluation, but seriously that's a very Wes Welker Texas Tech like career. Against Ohio State this year he had 12 catches for 145 yards and 2 TDs, as Toledo came way closer than you'd expect to beating the Buckeyes. The game finished 22-27. He gets off the line very quickly, has extreme body control, catches the football very well, and his open field running instincts are top notch. Like Wiggles Wylie and Marquis Maze, he's one of those compact, low to the ground guys that can be difficult to tackle after the catch. He moves around without losing any speed, like he's being controlled with a joystick. Is this a guy you pin your hopes on for the future? No. A player like this, it's easy to get caught focusing on them too much during the game and you end up hypnotized by the quickness and short strides. You have to make sure you keep your eyes disciplined and watch the defensive players trying to defend him and see if they're having a hard time of things. I'd say they're generally not having a tough time covering him in routes, because the bottom line is he's got 4.55 speed (re-tested at his Pro Day), but they sure are having a tough time of things dealing with him after the catch. At some point when you've got guys like this in the Draft, you start to wonder if Davone Bess is the type of player you really keep on your roster at a higher price tag when you can just keep cycling in this type of player for a cheaper price. Eric Page could be the type of guy you see drafted in the 7th round, or maybe even goes undrafted, and he's replacing Bess within a year, giving you salary cap relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnvQXzpGPng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh75TxN8aqM

The final type of player that Miami may need is what Clyde Gates was supposed to give us, which is to say a vertical, perimeter route runner that could blow the top off the defense and then actually catch the ball. Do we know Gates won't give us that? No. But he did virtually nothing as a rookie. Jeff Ireland is probably still firmly in the tank for Gates and when you see Philbin talking up Gates I think that's probably a little spill over of enthusiasm from that. Nonetheless there are guys in this Draft like Kendall Wright, Stephen Hill, Chris Givens, Ryan Broyles, A.J. Jenkins, Chris Owusu and LaVon Brazill...that they really may look at and decide to toss in either for competition with Gates, or to outright replace him.

In particular I think A.J. Jenkins deserves some attention. When Jeff Ireland took Vontae Davis in 2009, he noted that his relationship with Ron Zook was a big part of that. Vontae had a little bit of a reputation, some deserved and some not, and Ireland said his relationship with Zook was key in figuring out how much was real and how much was just noise. That relationship likely still exists and it could see the Dolphins steering toward Jenkins a little bit, who a 6002 and 190 lbs with 4.39 speed, fits the Green Bay model for many of those players exactly. He isn't just speed though. He showed quickness with his 6.73 shuttle, explosiveness with his 38.5 inch vertical, production even with that QB situation was fantastic at 84 catches, 1196 yards and 7 TDs in 2011. Lou Anarumo got a look at Jenkins at Purdue when his secondary had to play him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O931W3wadpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLRq7G0pgw

LaVon Brazill is another guy you don't hear get talked about much. He ran a 4.48 "official" at the Combine but I doubt any scout had him that slow on his stopwatch. More like the low 4.4's. He fits within the Green Bay size constraints at 5106 and 192 lbs. He did a 35 inch vertical. He had 72 catches for 1150 yards and 11 TDs this year in the MAC. He also busted out a 67 yard TD run against Buffalo. He had a 7 catch, 165 yard performance against Temple. He had 4 catches for 74 yards and a TD against Rutgers. More of a straight line guy, probably not someone you're putting on punt returns. Just another example of the kind of guy you take in the late rounds to see if he gives you anything more than your current guy who has been a disappointment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zLgtpz_XkA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUpdwBADlXY

Chris Owusu is a guy I would also be interested in the late rounds because he's a physical phenom, a deep threat, and trained on at a real smart program that produces some smart and savvy players. Just depends how much your appetite is for his concussion history. The thing you know with Owusu though, is that you're getting a player whose talent would dictate a MUCH higher value in this Draft, if not for the fear of his brains getting scrambled. NFL rule changes will protect him some, but it might now be enough. He's an excellent, excellent player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z1nuHT41YM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGgSTJD-kMU

"ckparrothead wrote:

Chris Owusu is a guy I would also be interested in the late rounds because he's a physical phenom, a deep threat, and trained on at a real smart program that produces some smart and savvy players. Just depends how much your appetite is for his concussion history. The thing you know with Owusu though, is that you're getting a player whose talent would dictate a MUCH higher value in this Draft, if not for the fear of his brains getting scrambled. NFL rule changes will protect him some, but it might now be enough. He's an excellent, excellent player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z1nuHT41YM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGgSTJD-kMU

The concussion history is one thing, but the severity of the concussions is the biggest red flag I believe. He didn't just get hit, he got jacked up on every occasion.

You have to wonder how many more the guy can take, especially with the care (justified) that the NFL is taking with head injuries these days.

Personally, I don't believe Hartline is as big, physical, or imposing with as much balance and body control as Jordy Nelson.

However, I can definitely see coach Philbin using Hartline how he did Nelson during Jordy's first couple years where he had Jordy learn all 3 WR positions. By being able to move Jordy around the field, Philbin was able to create matchup problems for Jennings & Driver. Gates and whatever rookie we draft would also have to learn multiple receiver positions for this work, so it might take a couple seasons to see the full reward IMO.

Tommy Streeter. Show some love :yes:

6'4 with a strong passion to improve his game to go with a 35" vertical leap and 4.4 speed.

A guy that I didn't mention, but should have, is Jeremy Ebert of Northwestern.

"Tone_E wrote:

The concussion history is one thing, but the severity of the concussions is the biggest red flag I believe. He didn't just get hit, he got jacked up on every occasion.

You have to wonder how many more the guy can take, especially with the care (justified) that the NFL is taking with head injuries these days.

Well, he's not retiring. He's trying to make a run at playing football. The league is more focused than ever on preventing concussions, hence Gregg Williams is in deep doo-doo for that pre-game speech and his bounties program. There are also new additions to the defenseless receiver rule every year, it seems like. The guy is really, really talented. If not for the concussions, who even knows how highly teams would be looking at him in this Draft. He's a physical phenom AND plays smart and physical football, tracks the ball well in the air and fights hard for it physically. If he's not going to retire, some team might as well use him before he's used up.

Not sure why Bess digressed last year, different QBs can do that I suppose...Moore was definitely looking for Marshall almost too much. His hands were a little inconsistent at times it seemed. Not looking like the Welker we had all hoped for. So to me the idea of Motioning Reggie to the slot and getting the ball in his hands is an idea I'm all for.

"Alex44 wrote:

Tommy Streeter. Show some love :yes:

6'4 with a strong passion to improve his game to go with a 35" vertical leap and 4.4 speed.

Watching Streeter in the Senior Bowl ( maybe it was east west) he caught my attention as a guy who has the tools to be developed nicely.

"ckparrothead wrote:

If you look at receiver types within four tracks, and this is not just for Joe Philbin's offense but for any offense, it could help:

1. You have your vertical perimeter guy, deep threat that presents a speed mismatch
2. You have your crisp route runner, natural pass catcher that may lack deep speed
3. You have your RAC/return guy, guy whose hands you want on the ball, elusive
4. You have your beast, very strong, explosive guy that presents physicality mismatches

Most receivers are some kind of mix and match of these qualities, but it could be the view of the people up in Green Bay (and elsewhere in the league) that your receivers should embody one of these types of player. You can be a jack of all trades but you can't be a master of none. That's sort of Jim Harbaugh's view on the tight end position, anyway.

From what I can recall, Green Bay likes their receivers to be fairly affluent in at least a few of those categories so that they can play all 3 WR positions allowing them to move guys around and create mismatches.

Philbin had Nelson learn X, Z, and W when he arrived at GB. Jennings plays everywhere. Cobb is learning multiple positions IIRC. Jones & Driver can be moved around, too. IMO Green Bay prioritizes receivers who possess versatility while also being able to run good routes (or displaying the ability to do so), have good body control, gain quick separation, make plays once the ball is in their hand, and can contribute to the vertical passing game.

Nelson fits all 4 of your above categories.
Jennings, the first 3.
Cobb is a little combination of a few of them.
Driver is a combo of them all.
Jones is a little of everything minus the consistency.

"Fin-Omenal wrote:

Watching Streeter in the Senior Bowl ( maybe it was east west) he caught my attention as a guy who has the tools to be developed nicely.

Being a Hurricane fan obviously I got to see him a lot. He was hampered a lot by bad QB play and just some horrible coaching overall his first few seasons.

The thing I love about him is that he is just flat out impossible to defend. He really plays like a guy who is 6'4 and he is GREAT at using his long arms to add even more height and get the ball at its highest point. A 5'11 corner just has absolutely no chance in hell at defending him in the NFL. His size/speed combo could make some team in the 3rd-4th-5th round EXTREMELY satisfied.

He is also an extremely hard worker from everything I've ever read. He spent a lot of offseason time working with former WR's to improve his game and he did.

Also it had to be East vs West as Streeter was only a Junior. Had he played his senior year IMO you could be talking about a first round talent if he has a strong season. With the QB situation in flux however he decided it was best to enter the draft while he still had the value of last season.

"ckparrothead wrote:

If you look at receiver types within four tracks, and this is not just for Joe Philbin's offense but for any offense, it could help:

1. You have your vertical perimeter guy, deep threat that presents a speed mismatch
2. You have your crisp route runner, natural pass catcher that may lack deep speed
3. You have your RAC/return guy, guy whose hands you want on the ball, elusive
4. You have your beast, very strong, explosive guy that presents physicality mismatches

Most receivers are some kind of mix and match of these qualities, but it could be the view of the people up in Green Bay (and elsewhere in the league) that your receivers should embody one of these types of player. You can be a jack of all trades but you can't be a master of none. That's sort of Jim Harbaugh's view on the tight end position, anyway.

In Miami, I think they view Brian Hartline as their embodiment of the 2nd trait. I don't think it's a coincidence or some insignificant nothing event that they've begun negotiations with him on a new contract a year early.

But what about the other traits?

Miami has no player that is really strong and physical, explosive. They don't have the physicality traits you see out of James Jones and Jordy Nelson, either from a RAC standpoint, breaking tackles and making things happen that way, or in terms of being physical at the top of the catch. You would think they'd look to inject some of this via the Draft.

Is Davone Bess really the kind of player in whose hands they want to get the ball on shorter RAC plays, because he's elusive, electric and makes things happen? Is it any coincidence that Philbin has already laid out that Reggie Bush will be split out to the slot more and used in this manner? I would think they're going to try and look for this in the Draft, because they don't have it in the receivers unit, and have to borrow Reggie Bush from the tailback unit in order to inject some of it.

And what about the perimeter player that can be a speed mismatch and blow the top off a defense? Do we really have one of those? That's what Clyde Gates is supposed to be, but he was really bad as a rookie. How much can you count on the 4th rounder? Jeff Ireland will be a strong lobby on Gates' behalf, but you could see whoever they draft being a guy that has this kind of trait in him, as a hedge on Gates.

You don't want one-dimensional players. You like guys that can fill multiple roles. But it's possible that the way a guy like Philbin thinks of it, you have to be sure they fill at least one of the roles.

Really the only historical constraint we've seen that would toss out any of the receivers in this Draft would be the size constraint. It's a fact that with the exception of Jordy Nelson, all the players up in Green Bay seemed to be about 5'11" to 6'1" and 188 to 207 lbs. But then, for one thing, you don't know how much of that is purely Ted Thompson, and for another, there IS that one little exception Pro Bowler Jordy Nelson, who is rightly going to be considered a model in many ways for what Philbin wants in a receiver.

The history probably isn't going to lead you to the 2 or 3 players they're most likely to add. The history just gives you a little bit of a lens on how to view all these guys, and if Joe Philbin is the ketchup-mustard-mayonnaise guy that I think, it may help you get a more accurate view of the team's needs, which could help you get a view of what they'll steer toward.

Like I said, the Dolphins currently lack a physical beast (traded him away), they lack a proven deep route runner, and they really lack that explosive/elusive guy in whose hands you want to get the ball to make things happen after the catch. So they have some work to do.

What they have in Davone Bess and Brian Hartline are precise route runners that are natural pass catchers. So you have to wonder if they'll steer away from that type in the Draft. They will of course love that a guy can run routes and be precise, but they may lack forgiveness for players that do not notch many of the other boxes and are JUST precise route runners/natural pass catchers. It won't be enough. Does that mean guys like Nick Toon, Marvin Jones, Juron Criner, Rishard Matthews and Brian Quick are a little less likely to be drafted? It could. Some other guys that fit this mold for me include guys like Danny Coale and Dale Moss.

I would say that Mohamed Sanu and Marvin McNutt really embody some of the characteristics you're looking for in players that exhibit a high degree of physicality. Some would say Greg Childs embodies that as well (not me, but to each his own). For that matter, some of the above players may be viewed through this lens, though I personally wouldn't make the case for it. I think Sanu and McNutt are the good examples, the most likely. They're both very physical at the top of the catch, and very physical after the catch, James Jones types of players. I think of the two, McNutt in the later rounds might present more value, especially given O'Keefe's familiarity with him, which may be a rare opportunity to exploit.

The interesting category for me is that elusive, explosive, run after catch, return type player.

Of course one of my very favorite players Devon Wylie fits right into this mold, and so I'm hoping he ends up Drafted. For me, Wylie doesn't just fit that one type of player. He's also fast enough to blow the top off a defense, and has enough clarity on the ball in the air to adjust on it and actually catch the thing. The combination of quick feet and eyes for the ball make him a pretty quarterback friendly player, too. But the number one thing he embodies, in my opinion, is that punt return type of guy in whose hands you want to get the ball and let him make plays. How much of the size history at Green Bay was Ted Thompson, and how much would a Joe Philbin agree with it? That will be key, because Devon only notches 5'9" in height. The shortest guy Green Bay drafted was Cobb who was a full inch taller than Devon.

But there are other guys like this. Joe Adams is definitely this type of player. Always a tremendous return man, works well from the slot because he's fast and has really good feet. He dominated during the Senior Bowl. T.Y. Hilton is this kind of player. Combination of quick and fast, shows some ability to break tackles after the catch, at Florida International all they wanted to do was just get the ball in his hands any way they could. He had 66 rush attempts, 221 catches, 103 kickoff returns and 49 punt returns. This is definitely a Randall Cobb type of player.

Three guys that maybe aren't so obvious in this type of mold are Keshawn Martin, Marquis Maze and Eric Page. Martin was yet another guy in whose hands Michigan State just wanted to get the ball, and watching him I can tell why. He's a play maker after the catch. He accelerates quickly and is elusive, and I think he showed that by running solidly into the 4.4's at the Combine (not sure what scouts had on their stopwatches, I think in the low 4.4's). He also had a 39.5 inch vertical, put up respectable agility drills. He fits perfectly in the Green Bay size constraints at 5114 and 188 lbs. Maze, on the other hand, does not fit the size constraints at 5077 and 186 lbs. But man, this might be the best return guy in the Draft. Fearless, extremely elusive, quick feet, short strides, whenever I see him make a catch he always produces more yards than I thought he had a right to just by virtue of his quickness and ability to make people miss.

Eric Page is a guy you probably don't hear about much because he played for the Toledo Rockets and then came out and tested poorly at the Combine with a 4.60 "official" 40 time, only a 30 inch vertical and 9'4" broad jump. But that 3.98 second shuttle drill he did at the Combine shows you what kind of player he is. He had 112 catches for 1123 yards and 10 TDs at Toldeo this year, finishing off a career that saw him catching nearly 300 balls for almost 3400 yards and 25 TDs, in addition to throwing 4 TDs, running for another TD, returning 3 kickoff TDs, and returning 1 punt TD. He averaged 26.7 yards per kick return. The term "the next Wes Welker" is the most overused in evaluation, but seriously that's a very Wes Welker Texas Tech like career. Against Ohio State this year he had 12 catches for 145 yards and 2 TDs, as Toledo came way closer than you'd expect to beating the Buckeyes. The game finished 22-27. He gets off the line very quickly, has extreme body control, catches the football very well, and his open field running instincts are top notch. Like Wiggles Wylie and Marquis Maze, he's one of those compact, low to the ground guys that can be difficult to tackle after the catch. He moves around without losing any speed, like he's being controlled with a joystick. Is this a guy you pin your hopes on for the future? No. A player like this, it's easy to get caught focusing on them too much during the game and you end up hypnotized by the quickness and short strides. You have to make sure you keep your eyes disciplined and watch the defensive players trying to defend him and see if they're having a hard time of things. I'd say they're generally not having a tough time covering him in routes, because the bottom line is he's got 4.55 speed (re-tested at his Pro Day), but they sure are having a tough time of things dealing with him after the catch. At some point when you've got guys like this in the Draft, you start to wonder if Davone Bess is the type of player you really keep on your roster at a higher price tag when you can just keep cycling in this type of player for a cheaper price. Eric Page could be the type of guy you see drafted in the 7th round, or maybe even goes undrafted, and he's replacing Bess within a year, giving you salary cap relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnvQXzpGPng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh75TxN8aqM

The final type of player that Miami may need is what Clyde Gates was supposed to give us, which is to say a vertical, perimeter route runner that could blow the top off the defense and then actually catch the ball. Do we know Gates won't give us that? No. But he did virtually nothing as a rookie. Jeff Ireland is probably still firmly in the tank for Gates and when you see Philbin talking up Gates I think that's probably a little spill over of enthusiasm from that. Nonetheless there are guys in this Draft like Kendall Wright, Stephen Hill, Chris Givens, Ryan Broyles, A.J. Jenkins, Chris Owusu and LaVon Brazill...that they really may look at and decide to toss in either for competition with Gates, or to outright replace him.

In particular I think A.J. Jenkins deserves some attention. When Jeff Ireland took Vontae Davis in 2009, he noted that his relationship with Ron Zook was a big part of that. Vontae had a little bit of a reputation, some deserved and some not, and Ireland said his relationship with Zook was key in figuring out how much was real and how much was just noise. That relationship likely still exists and it could see the Dolphins steering toward Jenkins a little bit, who a 6002 and 190 lbs with 4.39 speed, fits the Green Bay model for many of those players exactly. He isn't just speed though. He showed quickness with his 6.73 shuttle, explosiveness with his 38.5 inch vertical, production even with that QB situation was fantastic at 84 catches, 1196 yards and 7 TDs in 2011. Lou Anarumo got a look at Jenkins at Purdue when his secondary had to play him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O931W3wadpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLRq7G0pgw

LaVon Brazill is another guy you don't hear get talked about much. He ran a 4.48 "official" at the Combine but I doubt any scout had him that slow on his stopwatch. More like the low 4.4's. He fits within the Green Bay size constraints at 5106 and 192 lbs. He did a 35 inch vertical. He had 72 catches for 1150 yards and 11 TDs this year in the MAC. He also busted out a 67 yard TD run against Buffalo. He had a 7 catch, 165 yard performance against Temple. He had 4 catches for 74 yards and a TD against Rutgers. More of a straight line guy, probably not someone you're putting on punt returns. Just another example of the kind of guy you take in the late rounds to see if he gives you anything more than your current guy who has been a disappointment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zLgtpz_XkA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUpdwBADlXY

Chris Owusu is a guy I would also be interested in the late rounds because he's a physical phenom, a deep threat, and trained on at a real smart program that produces some smart and savvy players. Just depends how much your appetite is for his concussion history. The thing you know with Owusu though, is that you're getting a player whose talent would dictate a MUCH higher value in this Draft, if not for the fear of his brains getting scrambled. NFL rule changes will protect him some, but it might now be enough. He's an excellent, excellent player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z1nuHT41YM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGgSTJD-kMU

#4 is a type of WR every team needs/wants, unfortunatly their are about 6-7 of those guys in the league right now...and ours was just sent to Chicago.

Why bother reading the Omar Kelly article when you can just read the posts by CK? Quality work and way more insightful.