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When Does It Become Obvious?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    We had a head coach at odds with a GM.. And it ended ugly. That was Sparano.

    We have a head coach seemingly at odds with a GM. It seems to be ending ugly. This is Philbin.

    In both cases the GM who couldn't get along with those coaches was Jeff Ireland.

    At what point does it become obvious there's a common denominator?
     
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  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    So you think Philbin is right for wanting to keep Sherman around? Enjoy your island.
     
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  3. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    I dont think that is the point he is trying to make here.
     
  4. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    so you think its all on Sherman and Philbin didnt want the offense ran like that? Enjoy your Island.
     
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  5. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Seemingly? That's a bit vague. What facts do you have Bpk that Philbin has a beef with Ireland? Not knocking you Bpk, i just want to know what the apparent issues are?
     
  6. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I do. You can't dictate to your coach who he should work with. It never ends well. If TPTB think Philbin is the right man for the job, he should have the staff he wants. If Ireland provided Sherman with the right players, I think Sherman would of been far more consistent. Instead, he's forced to coach Sparano's leftovers and plug in players who don't fit the system and/or play out of position. Ireland must go before any other changes occur. Period.
     
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  7. chadisawesome

    chadisawesome New Member

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    fire the gm, give the new one permission to fire philbin if he sees fit
     
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  8. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Apparently, if you're Stephen Ross... it doesnt.
     
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  9. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Which is better than hiring a GM to work directly with Philbin for the purposes of getting the right players? Dolphin fans gunna Dolphin fan.
     
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  10. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    It's been obvious for quite a while.

    Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Hard to really say anything based off rumor and innuendo is "obvious".
     
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  12. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'm assuming that's what made him make this thread based on the timing but if not then ok.
     
  13. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    You can't just get rid of 53 guys and bring in 53 new ones in a year or two. It's an ongoing process. Let these guys finish building the team they want and then see where they're at.
     
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  14. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Not to mention it's Armando.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    When the Dolphins had a crisis on the offensive line, the coaching staff refused to turn to the front office's 3rd round pick and decided instead they need a practice squad player promoted.

    When the Dolphins had injuries at corner, they refused to turn to the front office's 2nd and 3rd round picks and turned instead to a practice squad safety from the 49ers that had only just arrived with the team earlier in the week.

    Then you have the non-use of Dion Jordan, the friction with Mike Wallace, etc.

    Yeah I think it's pretty clear there's a disconnect between the front office and the coaching staff. Doesn't mean it's true of every transaction, but I think it's generally true.
     
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  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Amazing how when something happens that contradicts rumors accepted as fact, the immediate reaction is "the person in charge is an idiot", as opposed to "maybe I shouldn't accept rumors as fact? Maybe I've been given bogus information?".
     
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  17. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    How is it the the people on the outside looking in, who rely on TV and newspapers to judge what's going on are spotting the "obvious" while the people on the inside with all the necessary info are lost?
     
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  18. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    That makes zero sense.

    Who brought the practice squad players here? Jordan and Wallace are non-stories, especially Wallace.
     
  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    That's the solution. Don't understand why its taking so long
     
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  20. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I just don't understand how people can still look at ANYONE in the NFL media and take their word as fact when they, "report."

    The amount of initial info that is 100% false is amazing.
     
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  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Because that would cost a lot of money, with no guarantee of a better result. It very may well be the best course of action, but when the "solution" involves risking 8-figures in expenditures, it is easy to see why it would take time to reach a decision.
     
  22. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because maybe its those very people on the inside, who are indeed the ones who are lost.
     
  23. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Exactly. Neither coach was given the tools to succeed with. And I'm not crazy about either coach. They could fire philbin tmw I would be cool w that. But I don't want ireland sabotaging another coach
     
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  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I mean taking the information into account is one thing. Even taking it as fact isn't that bad on the surface. Its really when the people with all the information and resources make a decision that runs counter to the rumors and innuendo that things go off the deep end. The default thinking is almost always "these people are idiots", not "I am ill-informed".
     
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  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    IIRC the coaches chose to play Thomas at OT, not OG. Will Davis was never behind Michael Thomas on the depth chart. Jamar Tayloy simply couldn't stay healthy. Dion Jordan is being brought along slowly, that's fair. But there's also Vernon's breakout season to consider. And of course it's pretty much official now, Ireland stays.

    Looks like you guys are gonna have to come up with some new theories bc none of your dogs seem to be hunting.
     
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  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Maybe. But those with more information will generally make a better decision.
     
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  27. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, it will never become obvious.

    There is one consistent link between the last six years of disappointing Dolphins football. It's not John Denney or Brandon Fields.
     
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  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    More likely it's the people on the outside taking their own opinions a little to seriously.
     
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  29. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    And we can all celebrate your binky returning.

    WOOHOO! Mediocrity for all!

    **** am I glad it's hockey season so I can forget I love this ****ty franchise.
     
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  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Sun Life Stadium?
     
  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    There are plenty of 'consistent links'. Literally over a dozen.
     
  32. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    It's only been Sun Life since 2010.
     
  33. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ditto.

    It's pretty obvious that we've been mediocre for quite some time with this structure in place, with this coaching staff, and a previous one.
     
  34. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I don't think you can put a tin foil hat on someone bc they view Armando, Omar, etc as idiots.

    It's clear that many of them just throw **** against the wall looking for hits so why wouldn't anyone be extremely skeptical of what they're selling today?
     
  35. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Look, when there is a pattern of someone with a reputation for not being likeable or pleasant to work with you have to look at it.

    Ireland has a history of issues that indicate he is not all that personable or liked:
    - Rumors Harbaugh soured on us because of Ireland
    - Irelands whore question and calling a fan an a-hole
    - Sparano and Ireland's falling out (would anyone try to claim they had a warm relationship at the end? Or even one of mutual respect?)
    - rumors that NFL executives and owners can't believe Ireland is still employed (when you like and respect someone you don't hold that stance)
    - former players, some not so credible like Channing Crowder, professing hatred for Ireland and his approach
    - a sense from certain agents that Ireland is a douche (see the agent who claimed Ireland said Martin needed to punch Incognito)
    - Persistent reports of a backroom rift between Aponte and Ireland with Philbin siding with (and hugging?) Dawn Aponte
    - Reports of strong discussions between Ireland and Philbin where Philbin insisted Jon Martin could not play football and Ireland pushed for Philbin to start him

    I mean, if there's smoke there's fire. When there is a cloud of volcanic ash that circles the globe there is definitely a lot of fire.

    Now, in relationship coaching when you notice a person has a pattern of not get along with their partners (in this case the Head Coaches) then you focus on that person needing to look at how they are causing these problems.

    Ireland is the common denominator in not getting along with two very different personalities of head coach now. Ireland does not seem to get along with the hard nosed front office personality of Dawn Aponte either Ireland has a history that makes one question just who he CAN work well with.

    That's my point.
     
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  36. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    At some point, the fact that the GM's talent has a disconnect with the coaching staff means there is a problem.. regardless of who is to blame.

    Then, when you consider the GM didn't have a good relationship with the prior Head Coach either, you begin to ask yourself where the blame lies.
     
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  37. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    And here's the reality.

    Ireland has no moves left, as I see it. He has painted himself into a corner that is inescapable.

    Ross: "So Jeff, you're saying the coaches are at fault?"

    Jeff: "Yes!"

    Ross: "But Jeff, you helped with the coaching search.. and other coaches hired during your tenure have had way more success… look at Chip Kelly, Bruce Arians, Chuck Magano, Marc Trestman, Andy Reid, Jeff Fisher… I mean, as a GM you failed in getting us the best coach.."

    Jeff: "Well… I wouldn't say I picked a worse coach than those…"

    Ross: "Then explain why we are underperforming compared to them?"

    Jeff: "Well, they had better players sir"

    -RECORD-SCRATCH SOUND-

    Whether Jeff says that he whiffed on better coaches for our talented roster and that was his mistake, or that he helped make the right coaching choice but the roster is not as good as what those other coaches have and his mistake was not getting good enough players… I just don't see any room left to wiggle for Jeff.

    Arguing that the new staff needed different players for the new scheme worked for the past two off seasons.. but now we have a lot of Free Agents and draft picks on this team and still we are dead in the water.

    I think the tribe speaks and Jeff's flame is finally extinguished. If he survives, then he is the ultimate survivor champion.
     
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  38. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    Is that when Steven Ross hits repeat? Funny stuff dude. I hope it goes down like this, and then Steven Ross throws Ireland out of the Davie office like Uncle Phil used to do to Jazzy Jeff. RIP Uncle Phil.
     
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  39. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    My prediction is Ross will not fire Ireland or Philbin, but there may be some changes in the assistant coaching ranks.

    This will be a mistake and the Dolphins will continue to fall behind the Jets, Bills, and Patriots in 2014. After finishing next year 5-11 or 6-10, Ross will realize too late that he was wrong in not blowing up this team after the 2013 season by getting rid of Philbin and Irland.

    The rebuilding process will start with a new GM and a new head coach after the 2014 season and it will take at least three more years before the Dolphins are a legitimate playoff contender.

    So right now I figure not much will change with Ross as this teams owner and we are probably looking at 2017 as the year the Dolphins might finally make the playoffs. I hope I am wrong, but I have zero confidence Ross will make the right decisions this year in regards to getting rid of the present GM and HC and hiring the right men to turn this team around.
     
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  40. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Weird question… but does Vegas post odds on these sorts of firings/hirings?

    They seem to be in-the-know more that we fans are.
     

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