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Which reciever do you want gone and why?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Ultra, Dec 17, 2009.

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  1. Ultra

    Ultra Lazy

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    So I think it's pretty certain we try to upgrade our WRs for next year...so who gets the axe? I like all these guys so I'm not sure who I would feel comfortable losing... I think for me I'd let Bess go, but mainly because Cam saved us from the 0-16

    Ginn - turning into a pretty good returner. made a few tough catches. drops a ton

    Bess - pretty good punt returner. seems to lose focus with some key fumbles

    Hartline - seems to get in the end zone and catch some medium/deep routes

    Camarillo - catches everything
     
  2. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I have a very strong suspicion I know what direction this is gonna go :shifty:
     
  3. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

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    I don't want anyone gone. I want them to add a #1 receiver and keep everyone else.
     
  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Truthfully? I don't know. To be fair, everyone, with the exception of Camarillo and Hartline, regressed from last year in the beginning, which makes me think it has something to do with the receiving coach. Just saying....
     
  5. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I don't necessarily think it would be one of those 4, but if it had to be, as much as it pains me to say it, we would probably be better off parting ways with Camarillo. He's clutch, a great player, has a work ethic that is golden on any football team and I'll never forget the catch against Baltimore but Bess and Hartline are playing just as well and haven't hit their ceiling yet. Ted Ginn is playing great on kick returns and could still end up being a really good #2 WR in this league, IMHO.
     
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  6. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    I think it depends on what they do next year in free agency/draft. If they bring in someone like Antonio Bryant, I could see us keeping 6 WRs. However if we draft a big WR, I could see Patrick Turner having to make a strong case to stay on our roster.

    Davone Bess and Greg Camarillo have similar skill sets in that they are undersized possession receivers. I don't know which one I'd let go, probably the one who had an ACL injury and is older (Camarillo).

    If we bring in a speed guy to replace Ginn, then maybe we dump Ginn. If it were me, I'd probably bring in Antonio Bryant and draft a late round receiver to give Turner some competition. If Ginn doesn't show up in the 2010 season, then get a faster guy in the 2011 draft.
     
  7. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    the initial answer is Ginn ... as AZ points out ...

    but as long as his cost doesn't outweigh his STs production - then it might be ok to keep him as a KR -- but clearly as a pure WR, he'd be the 1st to go.

    Then it comes down to Bess, CAM and Turner ... as i view Hartline as a keeper.

    IF we get a tall big play WR, then CAM and Hartline can be pretty valuable ... Bess maybe - but it depends upon if Turner can become a go to possession WR. If so, then Bess could be pushed out of the mix. Bess is so important right now, well because we are lacking quality TEs and possession WRs.

    it just depends what direction the FO wants to go in .... Hartline can displace CAM, Bess can prove himself indispensable, and Turner could turn into something next year -- but the most pressure here is on Bess. I don't say Turner, because he isn't even a blip on the screen right now.
     
  8. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    also, IF Marion is healthy next year ... we already have a speedy WR to replace Ginn, which i brought up during this offseason ... i view a healthy Marion as a Steve Smith type guy (CAR) ... but only IF, IF, IF he can fully recover from his knee surgeries ....
     
  9. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Agree they let go of a very good blocking WR in London to roll the dice with Turner/ Hartline. I see letting Turner go as a no brainer.
     
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  10. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

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    Camarillo has become one of my favorite all time Dolphins receivers. The guy is clutch. I would hate to see him go to another team, like the Patriots for example.
     
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  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Ginn, because he is just too inconsistent. If you rely on Ginn to make big plays, you will inevitably be disappointed at some point.
     
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  12. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    Brennan is a long term project, I wouldn't count on him if my life depended on it.

    I think if Ginn is gone in 2010, it's because we found someone who can replace him as a speed threat. It's not just because we want to cut him.
     
  13. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I think Camarllio is gone. Hartline isn't going anywhere, and Bess could be one of the most dangerous slot men in the NFL if we get a legit #1.

    Also, I think it's safe to say Ted Ginn's days are numbered. I'd love for Miami to keep him as a return man and occasional receiver, a role I feel he's thrived in as of late, but I doubt it happens.
     
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  14. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I did NO such thing :lol:...
    -
    Seriously, I really didn't :pity:
     
  15. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Nah, it would be because we replaced him as a Kick returner, not as a speed reciever :up:
     
  16. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I think Turner goes to the practice squad, Camarillo gets cut and Ginn gets traded or cut.
     
  17. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Ginn: He's nothing more the a KR at this point IMO. And, as such he'd be my first choice if we could trade him for anything. I'd gladly take a 3rd-4th-5th rounder for him.

    Bess: Generally a very solid receiver that Henne seems to have developed a rapport with. Love his attitude and what he brings to the team. I say keep him.

    Hartline: I absolutely LOVE this kid. Great hands. Runs good routes. Plays with a lot of heart and enthusiasm. He stays.

    Camarillo: Very solid and steady receiver with great hands. Question is has Hartline made him somewhat expendable?

    Turner: To this point we can't even assess his talents because he hasn't cracked the line up on game day. That in and of itself is troubling (to me). So, I'd have to say he's a bubble guy going into the off season.

    Summary: Try and trade Ginn in the off season. If you can get anything of value for him, make the deal. If not, and if Turner hasn't shown anything between now and draft day, I say look for another mid round WR with similar size/skill set, and let 'em compete for that last WR spot in TC.

    JMHO...
     
  18. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    Not sure how Bess qualifies as a good returner.

    I say Cam. I love the guy and was calling for him to get more playing time - BUT - he has been on the field a lot lately and not had the ball go his way. Have to wonder if he is having trouble getting open. For all Ginn's faults he can get open and the only deep threat we have. Even if we get a new speed guy Ginn is probably worth keeping for KR duties alone (our field position in the NE and CAR games is overlooked but had a huge impact).

    Three possession guys is one too many. Cam is expendable.
     
  19. Ultra

    Ultra Lazy

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    sorry, I worded the title poorly. should have said who do we like for next year or something like that
     
  20. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    Another quick point - the FO put a ton of faith that Ginn would work out this year. When he struggled, our passing game looked completely inept (without the threat of a downfield option teams sat on the short routes). The FO had NO backup plan for a WR that could get deep and it hurt us.

    I don't think we need to have only ONE speed guy. Having a few as an insurance plan is much more beneficial (and creates opportunities when 2 are on the field). Ginn's KR duties and ability to get deep should keep him here - even if we get a new deep threat.
     
  21. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    to be honest, who I want gone depends entirely on who we can bring in. I'd rather keep Ginn than cut him and go sign another #2/#3 guy.

    If we're unable to bring in a guy who is an obvious upgrade at the position (and some people around this board have to come to terms with that being a very probable situation) then i say stick with what we have. We've already played ourselves out of the top 15 of the draft and guys like Marshall are a pipe dream. Vincent Jackson would be good but how many teams will be fighting for him?
     
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  22. Delfin Alejandro

    Delfin Alejandro Premier League Champs

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    I think I would not want anyone gone. For example Cam to me is like our Mariano Rivera (odd analogy), we need a third down pass conversion, he is there. The younger guys I think are continuing to develop nicely, not as fast as some of us would like I'm sure. We do need a number 1 guy, I think having a number 1 as well as continuing to pass the ball with Henne is only going to help our receiving core develop. I mean think about it until Henne they where a tad under used. It is only logical that as they continue to get the ball thrown to them they will get better and having a proven guy teach them a bit will cement there development.

    I would bring a proven guy in and keep them as they are. Now, that brings in the fact about $$$$$ that is a whole other issue.
     
  23. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    Bess is also near the top of the league, if not at the top of the league, in 3rd down conversions through the air. His skill is moving the chains, and as one of the best slot receivers in the game, I'd rather not lose him.

    He is a RFA this year too, so it will be interseting to see what happens there.
     
  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We can't get rid of Ginn until we can replace him with a deep threat. we do not have a deep threat right now.

    We got 3 receivers of a similar makeup but each has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Hartline is a keeper. It really is a tossup between Cam and Bess. Ideally I'd like to see a deep threat, a great possession receiver, and a big end zone target. and if any WR can possess more than one of those strengths (or all 3) then great. But we don't have a multi-tooled WR so you gotta have one of each.
     
  25. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I'm not sure how Bess qualifies as a good returner also. He's near the bottom of the league in return average.
    Ginn is so soft though. I hate when he runs out of bounds just because someone will push him.

    I think we keep Bess.

    The original post is kind of a leading question because we don't have any options to select from. i.e. We select a speed guy.

    I would still say good bye to Ginn. (I hate the fact that he's soft). I know we need a deep threat to pull a safety, but his catches are too far between and again with him being too soft.
     
  26. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Sorry but when you draft a 3rd round pick that can't even
    compete with this incredible array of wide receivers we have,
    there is a problem...I've come to the conclusion that we threw away a second and third round pick in this past draft
     
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  27. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    The problem is that Anquan Boldin isn't really much of a deep guy either - then you run into the issue of safeties not having to respect the deep ball so they can sit on the short stuff.

    Guys who catch everything are great, but an offense can only do so much when all of the routes are under 15 yards. We need a deep threat.

    I would argue we even need more than one deep threat. I think the reason the Phillies, IND and NO's of the world have so much success is because they have multiple guys that can get open deep. It opens up the field and allows you to get "chunks" of yards.

    If Ginn isn't that guy, then by all means replace him, but I would caution against having one designated speedster and a bunch of possession guys.
     
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  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Without a deep threat watch good defenses compress their field and watch everyone regress. If Ginn catches 1/3 of deep passes which he's capable of, that'll keep them hella honest.

    We see it firsthand with Wes Welker. When he has a monster game they're still susceptible to losing. Super Bowl. To us a couple weeks ago. And in losing, it's because they don't score a ton of points. You have Bess, Hartline, and Cam. Bess has been clutch but you think Cam couldn't replace him? Bess has 6 fumbles, 3 lost. Greg C no fumbles.

    I'm not married to Ginn. If we can replace his deep threat ability, with a good WR, then I'll see him gone. New Deep thread, Cam and Hartline. That's a lineup I wouldn't mind seeing. I love Bess but he's dissappointed this year. You guys roast Ginn, but 3 catches, 22 yards, 2 fumbles, 1 lost. Ginn at least got 28 yards ...
     
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  29. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    I wouldn't cast off Turner yet. Just because he isn't playing this year doesn't mean it's because he's not a good reciever. He may be just as good as hartline but he doesn't get a roster spot on gameday because he can't be trusted on special teams, hartline is producing on special teams.

    I find it unrealistic to think both Hartline and Turner would both be starting. There was one roster spot. For a 4th wideout on gameday, which was going to be a rookie. Hartline got the edge because he can contribute on special teams. Turner sees the pine because of that. There won't be much seperation from a 3rd and a 4th round draft pick at the wideout position. They won't be big factors in the offense. They may have been very close in TC. But since Hartline fills another need, which is better coverage on kickoffs he got the nod and the opportunity.

    Just my take on it. Turner still could be cast off and not make the team next year. But the way this teams handles players roles, its' usually a slow development process. Especailly with wideouts. An example is the whole Cam Wake playing time mentallity. I think turner will still get a shot to prove he can play wideout in the NFL, with the phins. It just won't happen unless there is an immediate hole to fill (ie: injury) or he works on the other areas to contribute and makes the jump next season.
     
  30. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Camarillo is actually listed bigger than Ginn.
     
  31. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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  32. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's Ginn or Camarillo.

    Bess, while fumbling from time to time or dropping difficult passes, has been just as important, if not moreso than our other receivers. There are two people that jump into my head when we're on 3rd and 5-10 yds, and thats Bess, and Camarillo. Unfortunately for Camarillo, Bess just seems to be in the right place at the right time all too often, and if I'm not mistaken is quite a bit younger.

    Hartline will not be going anywhere, we just drafted him and he's already gradually making an impact on the field. He plays hard, is learning super fast, and can play ST too. He's locked.

    As for the people I mentioned potentially leaving.

    Ginn can't logically stay much longer, unless one of two things happen. His does not revert back to how it was at the beginning of this season. Or we can't find a true #1 receiver to replace him. Expect him to be on the trade block showcasing his return skills to a prospective buyer before this draft. If we can't get good enough compensation for him, but we do find that stud WR, he'll get some more playing time as a #2 receiver, and if that doesn't man out become a dedicated returner for punts and kickoffs.

    Camarillo - I love this guy, honestly, I have NO problem with Camarillo. The problem is he doesn't fit, he's the odd guy looking in. He does a lot of what Bess does (possession receiver, 3rd down weapon, etc), but the problem is Bess is younger, about the same skill level, tough as nails, and is a pretty darn good ST'er. Camarillo would make some attractive trade bait for someone looking for a possession receiver for sure. I think that's probably the most likely of things to happen, as he still has value. As much as I would hate to see it, the FO is trying to build the best team possible, and he doesn't bring anything that our current WRs lack.

    Turner will probably get one more year to prove himself before he hits the trade block/FA markets too in my opinion. I wouldn't write him off yet though.
     
  33. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    Bess pretty good at punt returns? That had to be a joke. Anyway I think we keep the top 4 WR's we have now and we cut Turner. Turner is not progressing like ppl hoped and has no value for special teams like Hartline and Ginn (I dont think Bess helps us in ST). Our core wr are not great but they all offer something different. Just add a #1 type and cut Turner
     
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  34. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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  35. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see Ginn going anywhere he has shown as of late that he can catch the ball, I know most have a hard for him but Bess didn't look so good last week and he dropped as many balls as Ginn when Henne started, there's plenty of room for improvement and Ginn is the only deep threat we have.
     
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  36. RunRickyRun

    RunRickyRun New Member

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    Ernest Wilford. :)
     
  37. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I KNEW it!!! Boy, Kenny was right. Everyone is jumping on THIS old bandwagon of getting rid of Te-

    Wait.

    Huh?!?
     
  38. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    Our WR's have actually been playing well for two weeks now. They've been open and made the catches.

    With a stud TE I think this group would actually be sufficient.

    It might fit better with this FO's thought process of not having one superstar on offense. A TE rarely fits that "diva" mold that Henning spoke of today and could probably have just as much of an impact (in THIS offense).
     
  39. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Patrick Turner
     
  40. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but i say goodbye ginn. We can find a solid returner MUCH cheaper and we can find a good #1 reciever that would be easily better than him.
     

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